Why is figure skating losing and being pushed to a niche? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Why is figure skating losing and being pushed to a niche?

MarkinBerkeley

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
When I was a boy I was interested in learning figure skating, but there was not a year round ice rink in our town. Not sure how my parents could have afforded lessons anyway.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
1) A lot has to do with contracts with TV broadcasters, the fact that this season they lost Eurosport, and NBC coverage got smaller as time goes by it is certainly a bad sign. In Italy it is growing but they started with almost zero following, in my area where i live, i don't think there is an ice rink, Roller Hockey is more popular here.

2) ISU is only realizing now that you should embrace the modern era of social media, for so many years they were very stubborn on blocking contents left and right, despite many people nowadays comes across this sport through youtube or during the Olympics and we all want to rewatch these performances, livestreams are always a good way to bring figure skating fans together,...

3) They need to follow more the countries where the sport is actually gaining popularity. For me South Korea and Australia (maybe even New Zealand) definitely deserve their own ISU event whether is a senior B, or a Grand Prix.
 

Supernovaimplosion

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Logically thinking, that would be the right conclusion. But it contradicts my observations of the rapid decline of pair skating in favor of ice dancing.
I don't think people care a lot about the big elements, honestly. Like obviously its impressive but when you think about it it's hard for someone who doesnt watch figure skating to tell the difference between a triple and a quad and even harder between a lutz and loop. And a lot a people were mad that Patrick chan scored above Adam in the team event even though Patrick had a harder program.
I think it is about performance. Someone might not be able to recognize a quad lutz, but they can recognize how a program made them feel.
Finally music. I know a lot of people will decry popular music in figure skating, but using pop music will make figure skating more popular. Think about how Jimmy ma, who didn't even go to the Olympics, went viral with his "turn down for what" program.
Or for example, my sister, who doesnt watch figure skating, asked me about Mariah Bell because she had heard of her Brittany short program.
This sort of music makes fs more interesting to people who think that figure skating is only about classical music.
 

1111bm

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
While I agree that there is, hour for hour, more skating on than there was in 1968, you have to dig for it and pay for it. Part of the problem is that viewership is so fractured nowadays. Back in the day you watched Wide World and watched whatever was on because it was all exciting, figure skating, downhill skiing, ski jumping. ...So you got introduced to figure skating that way and your interest developed. How is anyone going to develop an interest now when they aren't introduced to it unless they are already interested and searching for it?

Totally true, back in the day you were just so easily exposed to it.
I can say for myself, that I (and my family) stopped watching skating because it vanished from TV and it wasn't as ubiquitous and readily available anymore, the way it used to be back when I was a child and teenager. It's as simple as that. I basically forgot figure skating even existed. :shrug:


Then there is the new scoring, that, face it, doesn't make good TV. Go to the K&C, wait, up come a bunch of numbers that you don't really know whether are good or bad, coach frowns at the monitor trying to figure it out, skater stares at them, then the ranking comes up and everybody looks happy or sad. No more Tara shrieking in the box, no more guessing at home - 5.6? no, better than that; 5.7? It should really be a 5.8 but no way...5.7, YES. YES!!!

I don't think this is true at all, people will just adjust to whichever scoring is used at that time.

I never understood (or even cared) about the scoring back in the 6.0 days and I had not the faintest idea how the judges came up with those numbers. And when I started watching skating again a few years ago, I just accepted that there was a new system where equally 'incomprehensible' (from my perspective) numbers where assigned.
I honestly don't see any difference between the two.

However, once I got curious and decided to learn about the scoring of skating, I was delighted to find out that within IJS you can look everything up and it's all structured and transparent, and all the points are accounted for by a certain element or PCS category.
I still don't understand the 6.0 system to this day, and I don't think I ever will, it just seems so vague to me and I find it very annoying.


I hate to admit it, but I think casual fans are attracted to the jumps and "wow" elements.

I don't know about people nowadays, but everyone in my family watched for the whole package of skating + jumps to music, and certainly not for any action-type wow elements. And honestly I was always (and still am) most impressed with those cool-looking crossovers! :laugh:


I also think there's something to be said for nobody really skates anymore. We skated on ponds and if we were lucky an indoor rink from time to time. Most girls had ice skates, guys played hockey.

Absolutely. That was basically my childhood every winter and I loved it! :luv17: Nowadays skating is really rather 'exotic'.
 

bubblecherry

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
I can speak to the US only.

1) Decentralization of media. When the biggest channels would show figure skating and it would get Primetime spots, it was easier to get people into watching it. Now, people can just go to Netflix or Youtube and watch whatever they want. Much different from the culture of tuning into primetime television and there only being a few options regarding what to watch

2) People have already made the point of how inaccessible it is compared to other sports. It's not always easy to find a rink and it's incredibly expensive. Russia's system seems to be better. But even a sport like gymnastics in the US just has a more appealing system for parents. While still expensive, there are more perks like gymnastics being part of the NCAA, just more prestige in general.

3) Marketing? This isn't completely the fault of the USFS, but figure skating is too focused on nationality. I don't think the system is most effective for maximizing popularity. US skaters aren't typically the most dominate, yet there's still a US-centric way the media covers figure skating that just doesn't make sense. Even with this system that is overly focused on nationality (max 3 spots a country, etc) I still don't think they are maximizing popularity by almost exclusively focusing on US skaters. Tennis has a much better system in general, completely individualistic (except perhaps the Olys where the nationality matters--- but still Tennis has completely transcended being just an Olympic sport, something FS has never done)

I could go on...
 

sailormoon

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Country
Japan
Saying from my perspective - Poland in the 70/80s, then Canada in the 90s and US in the 2000s. Generally in the Western Culture.

Figure skating is still big in Russia and Japan, where there is no lack of world-class talents. America needs Olympic medals in women's figure skating.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
3) Marketing? This isn't completely the fault of the USFS, but figure skating is too focused on nationality. I don't think the system is most effective for maximizing popularity. US skaters aren't typically the most dominate, yet there's still a US-centric way the media covers figure skating that just doesn't make sense. Even with this system that is overly focused on nationality (max 3 spots a country, etc) I still don't think they are maximizing popularity by almost exclusively focusing on US skaters. Tennis has a much better system in general, completely individualistic (except perhaps the Olys where the nationality matters--- but still Tennis has completely transcended being just an Olympic sport, something FS has never done)

I love comparing figure skating to tennis, because tennis is a perfect example of how it should be done. Of course, figure skating probably is not going to be as widely popular as tennis, but they both have the same average fan age group of circa 50+ (just to go to tennis tournament and look around). I don't know their exact history, but it was in the late 60s when ATP reformed to an Open Era and that's how it exploded in popularity, and that attracted sponsors, media and young talents. All it takes is an open mind. And they also got themselves into Olympics.

Figure skating needs their Open Era now. Unfortunately, I don't see any open minds in figure skating. All I see is a closed-minded elitism, self-nobility and inability to look outside of the bubble. It's like old unreformed aristocrats in a post-revolutionary society - living with all the obsolete useless rules, being completely unproductive, but thinking highly of themselves.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
It’s like this with everything else in entertainment. Niche is the new thing, because you simply can’t make everyone read, watch or play the same thing as back in the 80’s and even 90’s because there are thousands of options in books, movies, series and games popping up seemingly every day.

And all the sports compete in the same pool. I know it’s natural to want everyone to share in one’s hobby, but peeps are all different and some of them (gasp) can’t care less about skating.

However, male figure skating made great strides since the eighties in terms of gaining popularity, and that’s something.

Also, I wanted to add, that while US situation seems to be different this year, the Youtube broadcasts are a total blessing of accessibility in 2019-2020 season.
 

le01

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
- the scoring system is confusing for average person. Back in the day, it was very easy to understand that one can get a maximum of 6 for presentation and for elements (even if this system was really unclear and flawed in general). Now the system is more clear for skaters and dedicated fans, but a casual viewer won't understand if 237.60 is a good score or not

But how could a casual viewer figure out why one skater was awarded 6.0 and the other 5.8? I think new system is much more clear and being able to see live technical scores is the best thing that could happen to figure skating
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
But how could a casual viewer figure out why one skater was awarded 6.0 and the other 5.8? I think new system is much more clear and being able to see live technical scores is the best thing that could happen to figure skating

I agree, I find the new system by far easier, and those running scores with the name of each element awesome. They also did a fantastic job during 2018 Olympics, showing the squares for elements and filling them in as the performance went on — I wish they kept that interface!
 

Princessroja

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Country
United-States
I think some of it is a self-fulfilling cycle. Even my friends who like figure skating in theory (a very small number indeed, I assure you) have absolutely no idea of what major competitions ARE, let alone when or how to watch them. It's just not in the public consciousness. I know that doesn't answer your question, but I think it stays niche in large part because it is already niche.

I wonder if some kind of TV show might help propel it upwards. I'm a dancer, as many here already know, and I can tell you that the public consciousness of dance now is MILES higher than it was when I was younger because of Dance Moms and SYTYCD and all those. I mean, real knowledge is still... lacking... I'll nicely put it that way, but they know it exists and they're interested in it. That wasn't as much the case before those shows came out.
 

DSQ

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
Is this the future of EU?
It's simply horrifying. I am glad I have at most only 25 more years of staying around...

Unlikely, that’s just Germany (and to be fair Spain also). In Belgium for example Home Schooling is a constitutional right.


Figure Skating is quite popular in the UK recreationally, by which I mean rinks are quite busy and their aren’t many ice rink black holes. Partly because we’re a small country. However compared to the figure skating hay day it’s nothing. In the past cities would have several rinks, plus in Scotland you’d have separate Curling and skating rinks ice time was so sort after.

Figure Skating as a sport is not very popular in the UK and has been in steady decline since the 80’s. Most skaters here like skating for themselves but couldn’t tell you who was completing for our country now. However ask many at my rink about the likes of Graham Newberry’s, Jean Luc Baker’s and Tiffani Zahorski’s skater parents who all skated in/for Britain and they are very knowledgeable.
 

Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Figure skating is still big in Russia and Japan, where there is no lack of world-class talents.

With respect to Japan....I would differentiate between figure skating and Yuzu/Satoko/Mao etc. That is, Japan doesn't love figure skating, its loves its stars.

The reason why I say that is because if you go to a smaller competition, like Autumn Classic, you'll notice that Japanese fans don't come to watch the skating, they come to watch Yuzu. They'll fly all the way to Canada, pay for airfare, hotels etc, and show up to the competition for Yuzuru's flight, then promptly leave when he's done skating. Last year, I was absolutely shocked at how the stands got filled for Yuzu's skate and then were emptied when he was done.
 

Miller

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
There’s probably not a lot you can do about general ‘cultural drift’, plus there’s an awful lot of X Games type winter sports at the Olympics these days e.g. Big Air, Slopestyle and Halfpipe etc. A more cerebral sport like skating doesn’t really fit in with this modern mindset, but then again it will interesting to see what general viewers make of the quad and 3A explosion in Ladies skating.

The 2 things I think the ISU could do to help matters would be to make sure their competitions are as strong as possible e.g. the stronger and better the competition the more attractive it would be to general viewers, and the better the ratings the more the sport will be attractive to TV companies e.g. Evgenia Medvedeva, 2 time world champion is in serious danger of not reaching the World Champs this coming year, and it could be another year before general viewers see her again as she’s not going to reach the GPF by the looks of it.

This is no way to build a sport. Sports like tennis succeed because people ‘get to know’ the competitors but in skating you can easily get someone just miss out on the big events and it’s another year before you see them again – “Oh, I remember her, she was good”.

So anything that increases the number of strong competitors at things like the World Champs, the sport’s shop window, and things like the GPF has to be good.

The other thing is the general presentation, and I would point out 2 things. Keep the traffic light system you had at the Olympics (NBC has it I believe, but nobody else). This is really good for informing more casual viewers what is going on re URs and things as the commentators always refer to it, and so the ‘mystery’ of some of the scores will be removed.

Secondly, finally accept World Records once and for all, and stop worrying that BVs and things are slightly different this year from last.

Alena Kostornaia got a world record today but you wouldn’t know it. All it was announced as was a Seasons Best to polite applause, but really the crowd should be going nuts. Similarly new Personal Bests should be announced, they’re even on the ISU’s website, but all you get is Seasons Bests, which are a real passion killer.

Finally it might be possible to restore a 6.0 type system if you really wanted to. There was a really good post by GS member Draqq the other day, which would allow the judges’ countries to be displayed, always a really good talking point (figure skating was kind of ‘reality TV’ before there was reality TV), along with their scores.

Basically you showed their PCS score and adjusted their TES score according to the program – all will become clear, though my example is slightly different from Draqq’s, but you’ll see the point.

Take a Men’s LP. The PCS is out of 100, so show the PCS score for each judge out of 10. Then take the TES and divide it by 10. Hence for elite male skaters it will typically be somewhere between 7 and 12 depending on who they are. Then just display the TES for each judge along with their country.

Then separately show their presentation i.e. PCS, plus country also. That way you’ve almost entirely replicated the 6.0 system which people always seems to find so easy to follow e.g. it’s still used on the Russian TV programme Ice Age Kids, but just with slightly higher marks i.e. out of 10 (except where TES is slightly higher...).

Then for other disciplines adjust accordingly (I would call it ‘reverse factoring’) E.g. in Ladies PCS is out of 80 for the LP, so display the PCS out of 10, and multiply the TES by 1.25 e.g. Alexandra Trusova’s 100 TES the other day would come out as 12.5 i.e. 100 *1.25 (the reverse of 0.8)/10.

If people really wanted to revert to a 6.0 type system, this way of doing it would be really good, but underlying it all you’ve still got the judges judging as now e.g. BV + GOE etc. You’re just presenting the results differently.
 

silverfoxes

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
With respect to Japan....I would differentiate between figure skating and Yuzu/Satoko/Mao etc. That is, Japan doesn't love figure skating, its loves its stars.

The reason why I say that is because if you go to a smaller competition, like Autumn Classic, you'll notice that Japanese fans don't come to watch the skating, they come to watch Yuzu. They'll fly all the way to Canada, pay for airfare, hotels etc, and show up to the competition for Yuzuru's flight, then promptly leave when he's done skating. Last year, I was absolutely shocked at how the stands got filled for Yuzu's skate and then were emptied when he was done.

With respect to Yuzuru, not all Japanese fans are just Yuzuru stans. In general they are far more supportive of foreign skaters than your typical North American or Russian fan. Yes, Yuzuru's fans will go overseas to watch him because it's incredibly difficult to get tickets to any competition in Japan. That doesn't mean that they represent all of the Japanese fans. If you spend any time on Instagram, you can see how the foreign skaters get showered with gifts by their Japanese fans.

As for the lack of interest in the US, well, it's everything mentioned and I would just say for myself, a lack of interesting or compelling personalities...call it "X factor" or star power, I just don't feel it much when I watch the current crop of skaters. Jason has some, but then, he also needs to skate well...
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
With respect to Japan....I would differentiate between figure skating and Yuzu/Satoko/Mao etc. That is, Japan doesn't love figure skating, its loves its stars.

The reason why I say that is because if you go to a smaller competition, like Autumn Classic, you'll notice that Japanese fans don't come to watch the skating, they come to watch Yuzu. They'll fly all the way to Canada, pay for airfare, hotels etc, and show up to the competition for Yuzuru's flight, then promptly leave when he's done skating. Last year, I was absolutely shocked at how the stands got filled for Yuzu's skate and then were emptied when he was done.

They were more polite at the Skate Canada this year, sitting through most of the programs, and even joined in into cheering for Nguyen, despite their propensity to zoom in and take pictures of a hair that might have dropped from Hanyu’s head in the K&C after he had left.
 

gmcg

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 3, 2017
In the US, I think quite a lot of it is tied to not having a medalist in ladies at the last couple Olympics. Gymnastics is a sport with a lot of similarities to figure skating, including a move from a perfect 10/perfect 6.0 system to a points system tied to skills that the general public is at a loss to really understand. But as far as I can tell, gymnastics has a much bigger presence. Why? Simone Biles. Gabby Douglas. Aly Raisman. But mostly Simone. It's not her domination at Worlds, it's her Olympics performances. For "niche" sports, the Olympics is where most Americans get exposure to the athletes. With an American woman to root for, who wins, people will get interested and want to follow her at other competitions, which incentivizes NBC to put more of it on the air, which gives it exposure to more eyeballs, which gets more little girls to beg their parents for lessons, etc.
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
Sorry if this discussion was already here before, but my memory is short and I can't recall it.
Here it is:
I remember figure skating being much more popular in the 70s into the 90s. It was always like one of mainstream winter sports. What happened? Why is it pushed more and more into an obscure niche? Decades ago there used to be only a few TV channels and figure skating events were always guaranteed to be on. Now, there are hundreds of channels, plus internet, and good luck finding figure skating coverage anywhere. There is plenty of snooker, poker, bowling, darts on TV. But not figure skating. We are losing big time to curling. What's wrong?
What is the problem? Why can't figure skating evolve to the changing times? Who is at fault? Why is it less and less appealing to the masses? How can we revive it?

Except in a tiny minority of countries at varying times, figure skating has never been anything other than a niche sport. I don't see the problem.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Except in a tiny minority of countries at varying times, figure skating has never been anything other than a niche sport. I don't see the problem.

The point of the thread is that now even in those “tiny minority of countries” it’s becoming a niche.
So there is a problem.
 
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