WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA | Page 2 | Golden Skate

WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Have any Russian figure skaters been proven to be involved in doping? Can they prove these database deletions and such are from AFTER Pyeongchang? If not, they should back off, at least back off figure skating.

...Zhenya, ready your speech-writing skills again. :palmf:


Ivan Bukhin was "not invited" to compete in Pyeongchang. Whether that makes him "proven to be involved in doping" can't be answered because there was absolutely no rationale given for the decision.
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Ivan Bukhin was "not invited" to compete in Pyeongchang. Whether that makes him "proven to be involved in doping" can't be answered because there was absolutely no rationale given for the decision.
Nope. The idea was to break one Russian pair and one Russian ID pair.
It greatly helped to prevent the Team Event gold.
Nice move...

Now, if Russia forbidden to participate in Olympics it not obliged to stay for Charter.
Seems like "a good time for a small victories war". Like it was in 1905.
The result of such a move is questionable.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Nope. The idea was to break one Russian pair and one Russian ID pair.
It greatly helped to prevent the Team Event gold.
Nice move...

Now, if Russia forbidden to participate in Olympics it not obliged to stay for Charter.
Seems like "a good time for a small victories war". Like it was in 1905.
The result of such a move is questionable.


Unlike you, I am not proposing a conspiracy theory that is at best speculation. I'm simply stating what happened. Bukhin did not receive an invite to the Olympics that year.
 

Supernovaimplosion

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
No... ban them from performing under a Russian flag and banning Russia from hosting events.

The ISU will fight it because they want the money... Russia is one of their few hot markets for figure skating... look at how they have cowed to China after the Chinese threw a hissy fit. I forgot what that initial issue was all about(may have started in speed skating), but notice after the Chinese paid the danegeld via the Shanghai Trophy that Taiwan was told they couldn't host an event. Pretty scummy thing to do and it was all over money.

I was extremely positive last time that Rostelecom Cup wouldn't be moved when others were saying that would happen... but I'm less sure this time though I lean slightly towards it not moving from Russia.

That makes more sense. Yeah I don't think the isu will like it.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I’m all for clean athletes not having their dreams dashed because of pervasive doping issues in their country.

But doping in Russia is a systemic problem. 43 Olympic medals stripped... 44 if you include the OAR bronze stripped in the 2018 Olympics.

They were stripped of 5 medals in the 2002 Winter Olympics, 3 in the 2004 Summer Olympics, 1 in the 2006 Winter Olympics, 14 (!) in the 2008 Summer Olympics, 13 in the 2012 Summer Olympics, 13 in the 2014 Winter Olympics, 1 in the 2016 Summer Olympics.

Like if you were a betting person would you ever lay money down on Russia having a clean Olympics?!

A real shame because they have talented athletes and such rampant cheating diminishes their legit accolades.

I also don’t think a ban will solve anything - it’ll hurt their fair athletes and Russia will almost certainly start cheating the moment they’re reinstated to make up for lost medals, so to speak. :rolleye: Clearly getting stripped or even banned doesn’t prevent them from trying to score medals with the help of doping.
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
I also don’t think a ban will solve anything

So does that mean everybody should just shrug their shoulders and move on? As was once wisely said in another context, the standard you walk past is the standard you accept. If we let this or that clean athlete, or this or that clean sport, compete under the figleaf of a different name or the Olympic flag - again - we are walking past. We are tacitly accepting the systemic doping issue in Russian sport as the standard.

Is that right? Is that good? Is that honest? Is that fair? Is that just?

I know there are plenty of clean Russian athletes. Well, I linked to the example of the sports boycott of Apartheid South Africa earlier; there were plenty of white South African athletes who rejected and fought against apartheid and the regime of white supremacy that governed their country in sports and in everything else, too, but we didn't give that foul system a pass because they existed. Sanctions work, when they work, because they target the whole population and encourage large-scale, cultural-level, internal change. The sports boycott alone didn't end the apartheid regime - of course it didn't - but the international community looking at Apartheid South Africa for many, many, many years and consistently saying No, this is wrong, and we do not accept this, even over something as trivial as sport, helped to make some people think twice about the society they lived in and gave others hope for better things. It helped to create pressure for change, and in the end, that vile regime fell.

So yes, we need the ban, and we need the boycotts. Because even if we can't change anything in the moment, even if we can't force honest behaviour from a dishonest actor, we still have the moral and ethical obligation to stand up in this moment and say No, this is wrong, and we do not accept this, by whatever means are within our power, and at whatever cost to ourselves and the sport we love. And if we do anything less, we are complicit.
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Unlike you, I am not proposing a conspiracy theory that is at best speculation. I'm simply stating what happened. Bukhin did not receive an invite to the Olympics that year.

I'm fully sure there is no conspiracy. If you agree to consider a pure business "not conspiracy".
Bukin wasn't invited without a reason. At least not openly discussed reason.
No Bukin = no Stepanova-Bukin.

Ksenya Stolbova - not invited. For no openly available reason.
The Stolbova-Klimov pair is not invited.

Gold for the Team Event had been won by Honduras. Oh, sorry, by Canada, yeah?

Should we make a petition to move WADA to Honduras? Or event better to Russia or China?

It's not a conspiracy I'm pretty sure. Business, no more.
 

halulupu

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Liza also took meldonium. Thought before it was banned. Russian doping is systematic still and state funded according to WADA. As long as it is like that there is no other way than to ban them all. It might be unfair for individual athletes. Lets hope they can participate as Olympics athletes as last time if inmcocents its proven
 

rollerblade

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
I'm fully sure there is no conspiracy. If you agree to consider a pure business "not conspiracy".
Bukin wasn't invited without a reason. At least not openly discussed reason.
No Bukin = no Stepanova-Bukin.

Ksenya Stolbova - not invited. For no openly available reason.
The Stolbova-Klimov pair is not invited.

Gold for the Team Event had been won by Honduras. Oh, sorry, by Canada, yeah?

Should we make a petition to move WADA to Honduras? Or event better to Russia or China?

It's not a conspiracy I'm pretty sure. Business, no more.

Oh please, if they really want to sabotage Russia's Team Event gold, they would have gone after the #1 team that season - Bobrova/Soloviev and Tarasova/Morozov.

If by some miracle that Stepanova/Bukin would even place above Bobrova/Soloviev, let alone Virtue/Moir... the gold was sunk by their men's placement, the very first discipline of the Team Event.
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Oh please, if they really want to sabotage Russia's Team Event gold, they would have gone after the #1 team that season - Bobrova/Soloviev and Tarasova/Morozov.

If by some miracle that Stepanova/Bukin would even place above Bobrova/Soloviev, let alone Virtue/Moir... the gold was sunk by their men's placement, the very first discipline of the Team Event.

Exactly why men were not thrown away. They were doomed so nobody bothered.
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
You have to admit though, it was pretty shonky how Ivan B and Ksenia S were "not invited", but with no reason given. Let's face it, the person on the street would definitely assume they must be dopers, which if not true (and it seems it is) that's libel and slander.

And conspiracy theorists would say that obviously the top Russian pair and dance team wouldn't be "not invited" with no reason because that's just too obvious. (Not to say I think this is what happened)

On topic, it's difficult to know what to do about Russia and doping...banning the country itself from holding any events or getting any medals on the medal table seems justified. Banning every Russian athlete clean or not, is unfair, the situation is different from apartheid which affected black people throughout South Africa whether they were athletes or not.

Now, if you want to ban Russia for its laws against homosexuality that's fair enough, although if so, quite a few other countries should be banned too.
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Liza also took meldonium. Thought before it was banned. Russian doping is systematic still and state funded according to WADA. As long as it is like that there is no other way than to ban them all. It might be unfair for individual athletes. Lets hope they can participate as Olympics athletes as last time if inmcocents its proven

It was recommended more than once to change the sportsman citizenship. If 4A are separated and four more flags added, the EC may become much more interesting competition.
Trusova for Belarus, Scherbakova for Latvia, Kostrornaya for Hungary and Zagitova for Armenia or whatever...

Immediately all four will be released from the WADA close observation.
 

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
For those who do not know what is it about.

It is still the old story. "In 2018, Wada reinstated Rusada as compliant after the national agency agreed to release data from its Moscow laboratory from the period between January 2012 and August 2015." Wada obtained the data in January 2019 and says, the data are manipulated.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/50551384
 

Corwin

On the Ice
Joined
May 4, 2016
Country
Russia
This is a 100% political decision. Crimea, Syria ... sanctions. it's all links of one chain. Sport is no longer in non-politics =\
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Think of it! When OAR was established for Pyeongchang Russia started to doctor and fix and falsify all tests and results. So any Russian participation means no progress.

You have to admit though, it was pretty shonky how Ivan B and Ksenia S were "not invited", but with no reason given. Let's face it, the person on the street would definitely assume they must be dopers, which if not true (and it seems it is) that's libel and slander.

And conspiracy theorists would say that obviously the top Russian pair and dance team wouldn't be "not invited" with no reason because that's just too obvious. (Not to say I think this is what happened)

On topic, it's difficult to know what to do about Russia and doping...banning the country itself from holding any events or getting any medals on the medal table seems justified. Banning every Russian athlete clean or not, is unfair, the situation is different from apartheid which affected black people throughout South Africa whether they were athletes or not.

Now, if you want to ban Russia for its laws against homosexuality that's fair enough, although if so, quite a few other countries should be banned too.

It would be necessary punishment. And that’s fair. Because Russia is just making no progress whatsoever on having sports administrators oppose doping! Just none

I’m all for clean athletes not having their dreams dashed because of pervasive doping issues in their country.

But doping in Russia is a systemic problem. 43 Olympic medals stripped... 44 if you include the OAR bronze stripped in the 2018 Olympics.

They were stripped of 5 medals in the 2002 Winter Olympics, 3 in the 2004 Summer Olympics, 1 in the 2006 Winter Olympics, 14 (!) in the 2008 Summer Olympics, 13 in the 2012 Summer Olympics, 13 in the 2014 Winter Olympics, 1 in the 2016 Summer Olympics.

Like if you were a betting person would you ever lay money down on Russia having a clean Olympics?!

A real shame because they have talented athletes and such rampant cheating diminishes their legit accolades.

I also don’t think a ban will solve anything - it’ll hurt their fair athletes and Russia will almost certainly start cheating the moment they’re reinstated to make up for lost medals, so to speak. :rolleye: Clearly getting stripped or even banned doesn’t prevent them from trying to score medals with the help of doping.

So then if would be a good thing to indefinitely ban Russia and Russians from all sports. It’s time to do that.
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
It would be necessary punishment. And that’s fair. Because Russia is just making no progress whatsoever on having sports administrators oppose doping! Just none

But how does banning clean athletes work? Does WADA expect them to storm the Kremlin, overthrow Putin and bring clean sport throughout the land?
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
December 9 we will know more. For now, Grand Prix finals are safe.
 
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