WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA

CanadianSkaterGuy · Nov 26, 2019

gmyers said:
Think of it! When OAR was established for Pyeongchang Russia started to doctor and fix and falsify all tests and results. So any Russian participation means no progress.

It would be necessary punishment. And that’s fair. Because Russia is just making no progress whatsoever on having sports administrators oppose doping! Just none

So then if would be a good thing to indefinitely ban Russia and Russians from all sports. It’s time to do that.

Banning them from all sports is heavy handed. They need tougher penalties and consequences. Every time an athlete is caught doping, they are lifetime banned from the Olympics and their country is barred from entering that event in the following Olympics. It’s one thing for an athlete to risk their own future with the hopes of not getting caught but perhaps athletes who risk future entries in their sport will be more dissuaded.

Also please Canada was better than Russia and S/B weren’t going to do better than B/S in dance, and S/K weren’t going to do much better than T/M in pairs. The Russian men were a hot mess. Speaking of doping, Russia still got to send Bobrova in spite of her spat with meldonium and managed to compete, under OAR.

gmyers · Nov 26, 2019

anonymoose_au said:
But how does banning clean athletes work? Does WADA expect them to storm the Kremlin, overthrow Putin and bring clean sport throughout the land?

Allowing clean athletes didn’t help so maybe banning them would help. Having no opportunity in sports anymore outside Russia may force changes like recognition doping is bad.

Alegria · Nov 26, 2019

Tolstoj said:
I disagree with the proposed penalty.

This will punish athletes that are not at a fault alongside those that are, and that will only make Russian government stronger among its people because they will immediately use that to prove that the rest of the world hate Russia, they blame russians for things that shouldn't be blamed, spreading hatred towards the West, etc. Which is already what they are saying there in case you don't know.

Are we cold war again?

Ok, but if one of the team was not clean, all the sportsmen from the teal lost medals. This rule is not new and works for decades. How is that different here?

karne · Nov 26, 2019

I'm sure innocent clean Russian athletes will be thrilled to sit at home and watch Justin Gatlin bag another gold medal for Team USA... :rolleye:

WADA plan on giving banned athletes explanations this time or are they just gonna do like they did Bukin and go "yeah, we know you weren't in Sochi and you never had a question mark over anything but we're banning you and we're not gonna tell you why"?

anonymoose_au · Nov 26, 2019

karne said:
I'm sure innocent clean Russian athletes will be thrilled to sit at home and watch Justin Gatlin bag another gold medal for Team USA...

WADA plan on giving banned athletes explanations this time or are they just gonna do like they did Bukin and go "yeah, we know you weren't in Sochi and you never had a question mark over anything but we're banning you and we're not gonna tell you why"?

Yeah what's up with that? If WADA wants to be tough on doping fine, but they should be uniformly tough. Just because Justin Gatlin's doping wasn't state sanctioned doesn't make it better.

In fact, using the same rule as WADA wants to put Russia under, everyone who trains with that guy should be banned as well. After all, they're part of the system, who cares if they were involved or not. Gotta send a message.

anonymoose_au · Nov 26, 2019

gmyers said:
Allowing clean athletes didn’t help so maybe banning them would help. Having no opportunity in sports anymore outside Russia may force changes like recognition doping is bad.

I'm pretty sure clean athletes know doping is bad, which is why they don't engage with it themselves. Once again what does WADA expect them to do? Riot? Leave Russia? Will they provide support for that? Or are they just going to wash their hands of it and tell a whole group of athletes that because they happen to be Russian, they can't play professional sports?

Arbitrary · Nov 26, 2019

This doping issue started exactly after Russia was too motivated to reclaim Crimea. The rights and obligations may be debated but the time correlation is obvious.
The idea was to make a pressure over the Russian authorities as soon as it's not a big secret the sport in Russia is a matter of ultimate attention from the authorities and the generic population both.
Apparently miscalculated.

Here is another problem: the Olympic truce per Chapter. Being not invited officially Russia may consider the Chapter null and void and ... what is the next target after Crimea?

SnowWhite · Nov 26, 2019

Do people really not understand the difference between individual athletes who break the rules and a state-sponsored operation? Seriously, it's not complicated.

SnowWhite · Nov 26, 2019

anonymoose_au said:
I'm pretty sure clean athletes know doping is bad, which is why they don't engage with it themselves. Once again what does WADA expect them to do? Riot? Leave Russia? Will they provide support for that? Or are they just going to wash their hands of it and tell a whole group of athletes that because they happen to be Russian, they can't play professional sports?

They aren't touching professional sports. The NHL doesn't care about this for example. This is about Olympic ("amateur") sports.

And also, they aren't proposing to prevent them from participating. They are recommending essentially the same thing that happened in 2018.

lariko · Nov 26, 2019

Edwin said:
December 9 we will know more. For now, Grand Prix finals are safe.

Good to know. I am more motivated to find a way to watch Russian Nationals after that. Because, if the ban is applied, we’ll essentially have Russians having their own event on the scale of 4CC and Eu. Tbh, the harder things are in Russia, the more they love figure skating.

Arbitrary · Nov 26, 2019

lariko said:
Good to know. I am more motivated to find a way to watch Russian Nationals after that. Because, if the ban is applied, we’ll essentially have Russians having their own event on the scale of 4CC and Eu. Tbh, the harder things are in Russia, the more they love figure skating.

The worse the better. During 1954 military exercises the USSR MoD ordered infantry platoons to move on foot through the tactical explosion area. Many died but the simulated attack was considered a success.
So, never underestimate Russians.

anonymoose_au · Nov 26, 2019

SnowWhite said:
They aren't touching professional sports. The NHL doesn't care about this for example. This is about Olympic ("amateur") sports.

And also, they aren't proposing to prevent them from participating. They are recommending essentially the same thing that happened in 2018.

Sorry, I wasn't sure what to call Olympic sports.

But isn't this the World Anti-Doping Agency? How can some sports not be covered? So you can dope up to your eyeballs in NHL and WADA don't care? WTH?

Although you do seem to be right about it being the same as what happened in 2018. Earlier reports made it sound like a blanket ban on Russian athletes altogether, not just the flag.

crazydreamer · Nov 26, 2019

EdgeCall said:
And how do you know that? Have you ever been in Russia? And what other countries do you know from first-hand experience?

Yes, I've both been to Russia and studied Russia. I'm not sure where you are from, but most Russians would not dispute that corruption by officials is prevalent. They might say it has always existed in Russia and is the same everywhere. Russia actually proposed earlier this year to effectively legalize some forms of corruption because it is "unavoidable." But of course, there are plenty of Russians here who can state more authoritatively what they believe.

luckyguy · Nov 26, 2019

EdgeCall said:
And how do you know that? Have you ever been in Russia? And what other countries do you know from first-hand experience?

He/she naturally does not know it and only repeats what he/she every day hears or reads. But at least in the last sentence we see a small self-reflection: But people in this age will believe what they want to believe, and that is as true in the US as anywhere else.

A deeper self-reflection (especially about "conspiracy theories" concerning Russia) could come after the reading Zbygniew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard: American primacy and its geostrategic imperatives", 1997.

GS Forum Staff · Nov 26, 2019

Please try to discuss this difficult subject without straying into the general subject of world politics, and without stereotyping the citizens or athletes of any country.

Stereotyping and politics are not allowed on Golden Skate.

EdgeCall · Nov 26, 2019

luckyguy said:
He/she naturally does not know it and only repeats what he/she every day hears or reads. But at least in the last sentence we see a small self-reflection: But people in this age will believe what they want to believe, and that is as true in the US as anywhere else.

A deeper self-reflection (especially about "conspiracy theories" concerning Russia) could come after the reading Zbygniew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard".

I know this book. A shorter - and much more blunt - summary would be George Friedman's speech at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs 2015. It's on Youtube. Highly recommended.

samkrut@mail.ru · Nov 26, 2019

There is no doubt that it is just politics now.

Russia did wrong before Sochi. No matter what big time crook Rodchenko is and how many lies he told if it seats like a duck...it is a duck. There was doping. It is bad on the absolute scale.

It is not black and white on the relative scale. Dominance of China during the Bejing Olympics. UK cyclers coming out of nowhere during the Olympics in London with the following doping scandals.

Oh, yes, it is another conspiracy theory. It's convenient to be on the winning side, the side that establishes the rules like Meldonium is a doping and at the same time controls the compliance. When the hackers showed that TUE were issued to Western athletes here and there, the athletes that took perfomance enhancing stuff right before the start and won the Olympics, what was the outcry? Yes:, "These Russian hackers are bad guys, TUE stuff is allowed by rules!"

What really angers me is that there is no fresh evidence. They are still recycling the old stuff. Is there any evidence of state sponsored wrong-doing before 2016 and 2018 Olympics? Any reaction to what Russia did like strping off the ranks of high level officials including Mutko, establishing criminal prosecution related to doping, etc.? Why are we talking about the current crops of the athletes?

Corwin · Nov 26, 2019

“The Russian authorities were responsible for preserving the integrity of the Moscow Data.” (CRC Recommendations to the WADA Executive Committee) At the same time, we also note that the report finds that the sports movement has not been involved in any of this manipulation, and that the report does not indicate any wrongdoing by the sports movement in this regard, in particular the Russian Olympic Committee or its members. In this context, the IOC welcomes the opportunity offered by WADA to Russian athletes to compete, “where they are able to demonstrate that they are not implicated in any way by the non-compliance”.

www.olympic.org

Supernovaimplosion · Nov 26, 2019

anonymoose_au said:
Sorry, I wasn't sure what to call Olympic sports.

But isn't this the World Anti-Doping Agency? How can some sports not be covered? So you can dope up to your eyeballs in NHL and WADA don't care? WTH?

Although you do seem to be right about it being the same as what happened in 2018. Earlier reports made it sound like a blanket ban on Russian athletes altogether, not just the flag.

It's because WADA was created by the IOC. So the IOC go to any organization that wants govern a sport at the Olympic level and say "If you want to govern that sport, you must follow WADA guidelines."
The NHL doesn't govern a sport at an Olympic level, isn't a affiliated with the IOC, and is a private company, so they don't have to conform with WADA. As soon as an NHL player plays a game sanctioned by IIHF, the organization that does govern the sport at the Olympics, and decides who goes to the olympics etc, they do have to be tested under WADA.

Arbitrary · Nov 26, 2019

luckyguy said:
He/she naturally does not know it and only repeats what he/she every day hears or reads. But at least in the last sentence we see a small self-reflection: But people in this age will believe what they want to believe, and that is as true in the US as anywhere else.

A deeper self-reflection (especially about "conspiracy theories" concerning Russia) could come after the reading Zbygniew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard: American primacy and its geostrategic imperatives", 1997.

Brzezinski & Kissinger strongly believed two of them are responsible for the doom of the USSR. Very gross overestimation.

Who actually killed the USSR was Japan Victor Company (JVC). Despite the fact ruining the SU was the last thing they thought about.

WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA

CanadianSkaterGuy

gmyers

Alegria

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here

Arbitrary

SnowWhite

SnowWhite

lariko

Arbitrary

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here

crazydreamer

luckyguy

Match Penalty

GS Forum Staff

EdgeCall

[email protected]

Medalist

Corwin

Supernovaimplosion

Arbitrary

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