WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA | Page 4 | Golden Skate

WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA

Draculus

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
What really angers me is that there is no fresh evidence. They are still recycling the old stuff. Is there any evidence of state sponsored wrong-doing before 2016 and 2018 Olympics? Any reaction to what Russia did like strping off the ranks of high level officials including Mutko, establishing criminal prosecution related to doping, etc.? Why are we talking about the current crops of the athletes?
They (WADA) are not talking about athletes. Basically, they said "Russia has no legitimate system for doping checks, so all Russian athletes that supposed to be checked by their national agency are actually unchecked, we cannot trust those checks". Plus "there is another attempt on cheating so there has to be punishment". Current problem is not with the doping itself (when there is positive medical analysis check), it is with database modifications, basically cheating.

Actually it is 2 different things. One is just statement that RUSADA miserably failed (equals to "most athletes no longer have and would not have in the near future valid AD verification"). And without verification you cannot participate.
And 2nd is about punishment for another cheating attempt. 1st problem can be partially solved in case by case basis (f.e. in a way how it was done in 2018, basically athletes have to provide a legal validation in a way they can). 2nd problem I do not know how to solve. WADA cannot do proper investigation against state organization on the territory of that state, they can only say "we do not trust you" to that organization. It's very sad, but I do not know what else can be done, trust is really easy to lose.
I hope they find a way and we will see all Russian figure skaters, but when sport is organized by national basis national problems affect all, including non-related.

And about Mutko, I would not call "striping" changing from "Minister of Sports" to "A Deputy Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation".
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
They (WADA) are not talking about athletes. Basically, they said "Russia has no legitimate system for doping checks, so all Russian athletes that supposed to be checked by their national agency are actually unchecked, we cannot trust those checks". Plus "there is another attempt on cheating so there has to be punishment". Current problem is not with the doping itself (when there is positive medical analysis check), it is with database modifications, basically cheating.

Actually it is 2 different things. One is just statement that RUSADA miserably failed (equals to "most athletes no longer have and would not have in the near future valid AD verification"). And without verification you cannot participate.
And 2nd is about punishment for another cheating attempt. 1st problem can be partially solved in case by case basis (f.e. in a way how it was done in 2018, basically athletes have to provide a legal validation in a way they can). 2nd problem I do not know how to solve. WADA cannot do proper investigation against state organization on the territory of that state, they can only say "we do not trust you" to that organization. It's very sad, but I do not know what else can be done, trust is really easy to lose.
I hope they find a way and we will see all Russian figure skaters, but when sport is organized by national basis national problems affect all, including non-related.

And about Mutko, I would not call "striping" changing from "Minister of Sports" to "A Deputy Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation".

Rusada was disqualified for quite a while. Russian athletes were checked by other bodies. There was analysis that they were checked more rigorously than athletes from other countries.

I am sure that it is not a coincidence that athletes during the domestic Olympics show abnormal results - it does not work the same with domestic worlds. If there were no leaks, if Rodchenko had not run the whole story would have been likely covered up. And those who would draw attention to it would be blamed as conspiracy theorists. But now, I am sure, it is a big personal failure to Putin. And especially after the World Cup he has 0 vested interest in any shady business in sports. When he said that there would be the war with doping I think he meant it.

That should be the target of WADA - to help Russia promote the clean sport - not to find conflicting data in Sochi related databases. Some crooks cover their traces. You want to punish them? Issue sanctions to all who worked there - never allow them to any Western country, freeze their bank accounts. Why should the athletes some of whom were 10 years old during Sochi should suffer for the past wrong-doing that has nothing to do with them? Punishment was there: many athletes were not allowed to the Olympics, sometimes without explanations, many lost their medals, Russia was a stupid "OAR" team. Why would one keep limiting Russian athletes unless there are political reasons?

And Mutko may be a deputy chairman. But he is not in media any more. My guess is that he lost his influence and just has some nominal position.
 

VenusHalley

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
You know, they let them get away last time. They still had "Russia" in name of their team. Didn't work. Starting with doping in freaking CURLING ending in more and more cover ups.

last time, Russia send Zhenya to cry for the Olympic committee, to please, please let them compete. Maybe next time around in needs to be some cute fifteen year old with quads yelling "how dare you, YOU not the others took away my dreams by insisting on cheating" at her own federation.

One can feel sorry for the clean athletes of Russia. But do you feel sorry for clean athletes of other countries who got their moment of glory stolen by some doped up cheater and gotten their medals months later by post, without hoopla, glory, photos on stands... losing on sponsorships, because nobody really cares that much months later...
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
When after December 9 an immediate blanket ban will be ordered, Russia's NOC or any sports individual governing bodies or individual athletes might challenge the order in CAS. Meaning perhaps the ban will last like 2-4 years longer while expensive lawyers fight each other? Going to some EEC council or UNESCO will also bring delays??

Why is Mutko still a free man? Isn't he even considered a criminal? The whistleblower had to flee for his live, and might still find the door handle of his car smeared with Novichok some time in the future ....
 

skatingfan200

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4171959

“I believe that RUSADA has enough legal grounds to protect Russian sport. Including legal. If RUSADA will challenge this decision, the consideration goes into the plane of the Court of Arbitration for Sport, where there will be re-examined evidence, interviewed experts. And I’m sure that our experts will find enough arguments to answer many questions, ”the press service of the Ministry of Sports quoted Mr. Kolobkov

The Minister of Sports believes that it is premature to say that all sanctions from the recommendations of the WADA Compliance Committee will be adopted by the board of founders of the organization. “I must say that now I see certain contradictions. But I must say that the decision of the WADA Executive Committee will be based on this report. It’s premature to say that all sanctions will be adopted by the board of founders, ”he said.

“I want to say that we honestly fulfilled our obligations, provided all the necessary information, answered all additional questions. Moreover, the Russian side proposed a joint study of this base. Of course, we, like no one else, are interested in ending this whole story, so that Russian athletes can participate on a par with other athletes, so that these accusations of manipulation end, ”Mr. Kolobkov said.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
My guess is after Dec 9th there will be an appeal and the head of the IOC will stick with a case by case basis for each athlete. The clean ones will be allowed to compete but probably under a neutral flag.

I did not know the current rendition of the KGB was involved in the scandal. Interesting read.

I respect every clean Russian athlete who denounces the operation of the Russian P-lab. I denounce Lance Armstrong's actions. I do not know if Armstrong had help from the US CIA but if he did, I would denounce the US also.
This person is very interesting....
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article
 

Draculus

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Rusada was disqualified for quite a while.
And qualified again.
But now, I am sure, it is a big personal failure to Putin. And especially after the World Cup he has 0 vested interest in any shady business in sports. When he said that there would be the war with doping I think he meant it.
Well, he told so many stories through his career, I do not know how ppl can seriously listen to him. Even Trump has more credibility.

That should be the target of WADA - to help Russia promote the clean sport - not to find conflicting data in Sochi related databases. Some crooks cover their traces. You want to punish them? Issue sanctions to all who worked there - never allow them to any Western country, freeze their bank accounts.
Without any investigation, just everybody? Ban some cleaning lady from visiting Germany? For me this does not sound any more fair than banning Trusova from OG.
The problem is that corruption is everywhere. If there is money - there is corruption. And bodies who supposed to fight corruption are corrupted also. And that is the problem - there is no trust in investigation done by local authorities and it is not possible to investigate by external bodies (because they need to investigate FSB, according to Rodchenkov during Sochi they have help from that organization). For 2018 WADA gave warning, but this didn't help.

So there are 2 options. Give another warning, basically means "ignore". I doubt that this is fair all non-russian athletes.
Escalate - this is not fair for many russian athletes who are honest.
And that's why this is sad - I do not see any good compromise here, especially if we "keep sport out of politics". It is not possible to fix this situation in Russia without politics.
 

DSQ

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
I would be furious if completely innocent athletes were punished for other's deceit.

If it was just other athletes deceit then I’d agree but WADA has accused the Russian Anti Doping of breaking the rules. Unfortunately when the leaders break the rules there’s no choice but everyone who represents them is punished.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Banning them from all sports is heavy handed. They need tougher penalties and consequences. Every time an athlete is caught doping, they are lifetime banned from the Olympics and their country is barred from entering that event in the following Olympics. It’s one thing for an athlete to risk their own future with the hopes of not getting caught but perhaps athletes who risk future entries in their sport will be more dissuaded.

Also please Canada was better than Russia and S/B weren’t going to do better than B/S in dance, and S/K weren’t going to do much better than T/M in pairs. The Russian men were a hot mess. Speaking of doping, Russia still got to send Bobrova in spite of her spat with meldonium and managed to compete, under OAR.

It’s not so much about individual athletes but the state which controls Russian sports. They keep cheating. They have to be punished by excluding all Russian citizens from sports. It has to be done. Because if a clean person makes any kind of mistake or error or dopes the state will seek to cover for them and falsify documents and lie and cheat like with Lysenko.

And now everyone knows doing OAR was a huge mistake and didn’t chnage anything. The state bodies Still support doping in sports
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
last time, Russia send Zhenya to cry for the Olympic committee, to please, please let them compete. Maybe next time around in needs to be some cute fifteen year old with quads yelling "how dare you, YOU not the others took away my dreams by insisting on cheating" at her own federation.

She went to ask for a permission to compete under a russian flag, they got rejected. "I cannot accept the option of competing on the Olympic Games without the Russian flag, as a neutral athlete"
 

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
RUSADA CEO Yuri Ganus from whom WADA obtained the alleged manipulated data seems to be an interesting person.

"Russia will likely have to accept the consequences. “They’re to be expected and they’re justified,” RUSADA CEO Yuri Ganus told The Associated Press."
“Now there’s a question about a possible appeal, but as a lawyer I don’t see how it can be appealed.”

And the AP speculates: "That appeal, however, would likely have to be filed by RUSADA and it’s far from certain whether the state-funded but independent-minded organization would agree."
https://apnews.com/162184f7cef943909cd5fc7f5bfc49e8

I would ask Yuri Ganus how it is possible that the data was not secured and could be manipulated. He is and was CEO all the time!
 

thedude

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
WADA's Being Weaponized To Destroy Russians' Dignity
http://infobrics.org/post/29487/?fb...UMJkx1QI8T6Qf2abiVgHuxoN904dE0JI9eDfH6c256E0A

The author sees a hybrid war against Moscow:

This strategy isn't just being carried out for the sake of schadenfreude, but as part of a far-fetched plan to decrease the population's support of their government. The theory goes that average Russians might eventually be misguided by a forthcoming US-backed infowar campaign to somehow blame their government for this humiliation, which could contribute to increasing anti-government sentiment and then indirectly influence their political preferences in 2024 after President Putin's final term ends. That idea might sound attractive in Washington think tanks and the halls of Langley, but it's completely unrealistic in practice.

That website is hilarous. It's a russian bot site. Look at the twitter followers. All the articles are conspiracy theories against russia. It tries to look like a NGO economic development website.
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
If guys from FSB came ask something - I would not blame him.

Of course, there is billions of government money going round in the field of play of sports, with only the smallest fraction reaching the athletes. How many billions were lost to corruption, pocket lining of government officials low and high in Sochi 2014, 2018 soccer world championships with all these massive building projects? How many critical and opposing voices were silenced forever in the process?

Does the Russian tax payer object or cast his vote in the coming elections to demand change? Most likely not, since there is hardly any independent press available to the common person to influence an objective decision.
 

VenusHalley

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
She went to ask for a permission to compete under a russian flag, they got rejected. "I cannot accept the option of competing on the Olympic Games without the Russian flag, as a neutral athlete"

And she went and competed anyways.

One of the few medalists too.

But as much as Russians complained that competing under Olympic flag the most horrible thing ever that could possibly happen to an athlete... they did not learn. THe whole "poo wittle Wussia" victim playing is getting tiresome.

Time to clean your act or get out.
 

Draculus

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Does the Russian tax payer object or cast his vote in the coming elections to demand change? Most likely not, since there is hardly any independent press available to the common person to influence an objective decision.
Agree, not. But for different reason, "Russian tax payer" is aware that there are no elections in Russia.
 

sjchilly

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Country
United-States
"Quote Originally Posted by Mishaminion View Post
I would be furious if completely innocent athletes were punished for other's deceit."
I would be furious if I was a Russian athlete and my country didn't think I could win based on by abilities and talents. Russian athletes need to step up and demand national compliance with international doping protocols.
 

EdgeCall

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
I would ask Yuri Ganus how it is possible that the data was not secured and could be manipulated. He is and was CEO all the time!

The highly secretive, top-security Iranian nuclear program was successfully infiltrated and sabotaged by the Stuxnet virus. I think it is safe to assume that whatever protection RUSADA had in place was much weaker.
 
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