Quad Axel | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Quad Axel

labgoat

I have no words
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
With all the other bad (but important) news in skating (WADA, SafeSport), I am so glad to have this thread to cheer me up and stay positive about the sport. It will be fascinating to follow the quest for the Quad Axel as it develops over time in this thread.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks-SSdGxQos
Yuzuru Hanyu 4A< (fall) from GPF 2019 practice ;) It's really close to being landed, I guess.. :unsure:

The fact that it messed up his 3A-3A (costing 17 points) in the FS and he did it because Ghislain wasn’t there was rash. He’s 25, he should be more conscientious about how attempting this randomly can affect his mindset going into a free.

Certain fans: “Yasss he tried a 4A!!!! Fully rotated fall — according to my eyes!!! 👀

Also the same certain fans: “Please stay healthy and competitive!” 🙏

:rolleye: For a veteran he should know better and make way for potential superior skaters and follow his training plan to avoid injuring himself ... I felt the same about Chen trying quads at US nationals for the exhibitions and then injuring himself. It’s not smart.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
I can’t wait until there are sextuple axels. What will we call them? Sextels?
 

tafattsbarn

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 31, 2018
The fact that it messed up his 3A-3A (costing 17 points) in the FS and he did it because Ghislain wasn’t there was rash. He’s 25, he should be more conscientious about how attempting this randomly can affect his mindset going into a free.

Certain fans: “Yasss he tried a 4A!!!! Fully rotated fall — according to my eyes!!! �� ”

Also the same certain fans: “Please stay healthy and competitive!” ��

:rolleye: For a veteran he should know better and make way for potential superior skaters.. I felt the same about Chen trying quads at US nationals for the exhibitions. Great if you continue next

He said in interviews that he didn't think he would be able to make up the point difference and win the competition so he wanted to at least leave knowing he had accomplished and overcome something here. To him this was landing the 4Lz as well as training the 4A. It was to improve his mentality for future endeavours. He said he knew that he would be letting go of the competition but he thought that was what he needed to do. It is exactly because he is a 25 year old man in charge of his own training that he did what he did. He made the decisions he thought would better benefit him in the situation he was in and i can't really say it didn't work either, as he seemed much more satisfied and content after coming second than he usually does. The way he talked about himself after the short (calling himself pathetic etc) and the free skate are so wildly different and much healthier for the latter (although he as always remaied rather harsh).

If you actually cared and followed him you would know this as it's right there in his words, and not make blind assumptions.

"Make way for potential superior skaters" this is not charity, it's a competitive sport. If skaters want to become the best they need to improve and rise to the highest standard, not hope that the difficulty lessens. Skaters shouldn't retire just because someone better comes along either, that's ridiculous. There would be no skaters left in the field if this was the case and we certainly wouldn't have skaters like Hanyu that continue to push the limits of what is possible a decade into seniors. Either way, getting high points is not the end all be all regarding advancement in sport, especially not in a judged one.
 

Yuzuruu

the silent assassin
Medalist
Joined
Nov 21, 2017
I personally can't stand the ridiculous, degrading names some people are trying to impose on the axel like "triksel" or now "quaksel". It is the triple axel and the quad axel, or abbreviated - 3A and 4A. Axel should feel highly offended. Nobody is calling the quad lutz "qulutz" or anything stupid like that.

I also think all of Dimitriev Jr.'s 4A attempts are << and would most likely be downgraded if he ever attempted it in competition again. It's quite obvious that Yuzuru is the closest to landing it without a harness :) And as some posters stated already - all quads are dangerous so I don't think it being dangerous is any reason for not trying.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Its borderline indeed and if its competition it will come down to the TP, if its strict it will get called < but might not if TP is lenient

Dmitriev attempt is better than his previous ones but quite far from rotated, i would say < borderline << (his landing is not exactly forward)

Where is Dmitriev Jr???? Injured? Retired? Maybe he should try pairs?
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Will it be a quadzel or a quaksel, 4A it will be in the protocols, but for fans, 4A is already taken by Awesome And Amazing Aces from Khrustalniy ;-)

Will Aleksandra Trusova be the first woman to try it?

Logically no. She doesn't even have a triple axel. I just hope skaters don't chase after this to be first atlandingit while destroying the rest of their program.
 

crazydreamer

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
It's certainly the only non-downgradeable attempt so far without a harness. I don't think Dmitriev ever gotten to more than forwards.
Based on the videos in this thread, they look about the same to me. Both around 95-100 degrees short of full rotation, in the downgrade zone. Dmitriev appears to land more on his toe which allows him to stay on his feet, Yuzu lands more flat on his blade and goes down.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Based on the videos in this thread, they look about the same to me. Both around 95-100 degrees short of full rotation, in the downgrade zone. Dmitriev appears to land more on his toe which allows him to stay on his feet, Yuzu lands more flat on his blade and goes down.

One of Hanyu’s attempts in his 2019 GPF practice I would say is a < and not a <<. While it’s a good attempt it’s not there yet —he needs more vertical height on his axel to not only have time to get the sufficient rotation but to also have time to properly check out on the landing. Right now he’s going down immediately. A UR 4A fall gets only 3.69 points (not to mention adversely affects PCS). A fall on a sufficiently rotated 4A is 5.25 points. It’s not worth the risk unless you can be assured to do everything else cleanly.

While a 4A would make history and whatnot it would get completely negated by other errors that he had like the 3F< stepout or singling a 3A or doing 4-2 instead of the intended 4-3. It’s a great goal to have to be the first to do the 4A but if he wants to win against Chen he need more consistency on his 4Z to maybe bring it to his SP and clean up the FS technical errors that caused him to score under 100 TES in spite of executing 5 quads. By his own admission trying the 4A in practice messed up his 3A (3A-3A, really) and the latter is his money jump.
 

tafattsbarn

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 31, 2018
One of Hanyu’s attempts in his 2019 GPF practice I would say is a < and not a <<. While it’s a good attempt it’s not there yet —he needs more vertical height on his axel to not only have time to get the sufficient rotation but to also have time to properly check out on the landing. Right now he’s going down immediately. A UR 4A fall gets only 3.69 points (not to mention adversely affects PCS). A fall on a sufficiently rotated 4A is 5.25 points. It’s not worth the risk unless you can be assured to do everything else cleanly.

While a 4A would make history and whatnot it would get completely negated by other errors that he had like the 3F< stepout or singling a 3A or doing 4-2 instead of the intended 4-3. It’s a great goal to have to be the first to do the 4A but if he wants to win against Chen he need more consistency on his 4Z to maybe bring it to his SP and clean up the FS technical errors that caused him to score under 100 TES in spite of executing 5 quads. By his own admission trying the 4A in practice messed up his 3A (3A-3A, really) and the latter is his money jump.

Yuzuru wants to land the 4A because it's been one of his goals since he was a child, alongside winning two olympic golds. He has even said he doesn't need to be the first one to land it, but he wants to do it. Of course he would want to include it within a program that he performs to his best ability, but that's mostly because i'm sure he wouldn't feel that was worthy or was an element executed well enough to count (he's said as much himself when he said that he didn't want to just try it recklessly in a program on the off-side that he lands it) if it wasn't landed in that context.

Not everything is about Nathan, and he seems to be the least likely person to try for a 4A so his name shouldn't be mentioned in this thread at all.
 

DSQ

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
I personally can't stand the ridiculous, degrading names some people are trying to impose on the axel like "triksel" or now "quaksel". It is the triple axel and the quad axel, or abbreviated - 3A and 4A. Axel should feel highly offended. Nobody is calling the quad lutz "qulutz" or anything stupid like that.

I also think all of Dimitriev Jr.'s 4A attempts are << and would most likely be downgraded if he ever attempted it in competition again. It's quite obvious that Yuzuru is the closest to landing it without a harness :) And as some posters stated already - all quads are dangerous so I don't think it being dangerous is any reason for not trying.

It’s a very common Russian nickname for the jump and we have Russian posters on this board. I don’t get why people care if it’s abbreviated.

If anyone should be offended it’s Rittberger since people don’t use his name for his jump anymore.

I felt like Dimitriev and Hanyu were at similar levels of rotation. Definitely both downgraded but closer than I thought either would be yet. Hanyu lands on the ice with his blade parallel to his direction of travel, that’s minimum 90 degrees off and Dimitriev two foots facing not quite forward but just over it. However I’m no expert on jumps. At least Dimitriev stays on his feel, injury wise that’s got to be an advantage.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The fact that it messed up his 3A-3A (costing 17 points) in the FS and he did it because Ghislain wasn’t there was rash. He’s 25, he should be more conscientious about how attempting this randomly can affect his mindset going into a free.

Certain fans: “Yasss he tried a 4A!!!! Fully rotated fall — according to my eyes!!! &#55357;&#56384; ”

Also the same certain fans: “Please stay healthy and competitive!” &#55357;&#56911;

:rolleye: For a veteran he should know better and make way for potential superior skaters and follow his training plan to avoid injuring himself ... I felt the same about Chen trying quads at US nationals for the exhibitions and then injuring himself. It’s not smart.

Agreed. He injured himself on a 4Lz fall that looked similar to the fall on his second 4A attempt in the video. He has enough work to do to improve his stamina so that he can finish his GPF layout strong. That is what will win him his third OGM, not a 4A that will sap his energy for the remainder of his program.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
I had a dream yesterday some random male skater landed the first 4A and all of us were wrong about who would be first. :laugh:
 

Alex65

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Country
Russia
It’s a very common Russian nickname for the jump and we have Russian posters on this board. I don’t get why people care if it’s abbreviated.

If anyone should be offended it’s Rittberger since people don’t use his name for his jump anymore.

I felt like Dimitriev and Hanyu were at similar levels of rotation. Definitely both downgraded but closer than I thought either would be yet. Hanyu lands on the ice with his blade parallel to his direction of travel, that’s minimum 90 degrees off and Dimitriev two foots facing not quite forward but just over it. However I’m no expert on jumps. At least Dimitriev stays on his feel, injury wise that’s got to be an advantage.

OT . In Russia the rittberger is still very often used as the name of this jump. For example, as a triple lutz - a triple rittberger for Alina's jump. Cascades with rittberger jump are called ritt cascades.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I had a dream yesterday some random male skater landed the first 4A and all of us were wrong about who would be first. :laugh:

Well after prominent skaters like Plushenko and Weiss dabbled with it, Brandon Mroz landing the hardest jump in figure skating, a 4Z, was kind of unexpected!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Yuzuru wants to land the 4A because it's been one of his goals since he was a child, alongside winning two olympic golds. He has even said he doesn't need to be the first one to land it, but he wants to do it. Of course he would want to include it within a program that he performs to his best ability, but that's mostly because i'm sure he wouldn't feel that was worthy or was an element executed well enough to count (he's said as much himself when he said that he didn't want to just try it recklessly in a program on the off-side that he lands it) if it wasn't landed in that context.

Not everything is about Nathan, and he seems to be the least likely person to try for a 4A so his name shouldn't be mentioned in this thread at all.

I think if a 4A compromises Hanyu’s performance/points and Chen is his biggest rival then there is context for mentioning him. Especially as relevant to the recent GPF.
 

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
OT . In Russia the rittberger is still very often used as the name of this jump. For example, as a triple lutz - a triple rittberger for Alina's jump. Cascades with rittberger jump are called ritt cascades.

Not just in Russia.. Rittberger is the official name of the jump in many European countries. My own country included. However, as I post in English here (and so does everyone else) I use 'Loop' as all other English speaking people do. Whether it's called Rittberger or Loop, it's still my favourite jump to watch. Any skater doing a quad loop will get cheers from me. As, of course, will anyone who really lands that Quad Axel!
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
It was not a lutz and it was not a quad. :)

It was a lutz and it was a quad.

And when the quad Axel is landed, it will be called just that - a quad Axel, or a 4A, its correct names. Not some stupid fool name like quaksel and certainly some silly nickname for skaters is irrelevant. The 4A is the correct abbreviation and the quad Axel is the correct name. End of story.

For the sake of completeness, here are the only two filmed attempts from Max Aaron on the harness - February 2015 and October 2016.

And one filmed attempt in the harness from Brendan Kerry in December 2016.
 

Makemi

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Yuzu is certainly the closest to landing it, and probably the one most determined to land it. We'll see if he actually includes that jump at Worlds like he said he wants to.

Raf has alluded to Nathan "working on a quad axel" in this article, although Nathan has so far been coy about it (whether it's Raf wish or actually happening is anyone's guess; at any rate it's certainly not a priority right now). Given that the 3A is Nathan's weakest jump he'll need a lot of work, but well, I wouldn't put it past him to suddenly show up one day and land it.

Anyway here's Keegan's attempt on the harness: June 2018

Camden Pulkinen has also attempted one in a harness: April 2018
 
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