Quad Axel | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Quad Axel

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
It was not a lutz and it was not a quad. :)

Let me guess, NN... doesn’t count as a lutz or quad since it was not perfectly off the pick, didn’t have the world’s deepest outside edge, had excessive prerotation, and didn’t feature a thousand transitions going in and out? :sarcasm: Definitely shouldn’t have been ratified! :laugh: :rolleye:
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
For me it was definitely a lutz, and I'm strict on edge. Prerotation was excessive, however compared to shoma flip it wasnt that bad so I'm totally okay with the ratification, provided better 4Lzs got more GOE.



Back to the topic, 4A. There are enough forum posts to discus lutz
Yuzu is perfectly straight in the air,
However he will never land it at current rate. This is because he doesnt have enough ankle strength, and so his ankle is bending so his blade is parallel to the ice. If he managed to fully rotate it right now, his ankle is in such a bad place I am concerned he would break his ankle.
Jumps get proportionally more dangerous every extra part. I group jumps thusly:
1T,1S,1T,1Lo,1F,1Lz
1A,2T,2S,2Lo,2F,2Lz
2A,3T,3S,3Lo,3F,3Lz
3A,4T,4S
4Lo,4F,4Lz
4A,5T,5S
5Lo,5F,5Lz.


These are the elements in their 'danger group's to speak provided the skater does a reasonable amount of prerotation and correct edges. With Flip and Lutz, they become easier with bad technique.
I feel that every danger group you move into, its proportionately more dangerous than the last danger group. So from 1Lz to 1A isn't as dangerous as 2Lz to 2A, or 3Lz to 3A, or 4Lz to 4A.

These danger groups are just a theory I made up on the spot, and arent official. It's just a pattern I've been tending to notice in figure skating. Moving along each danger group isnt that bad , only going from one to the next. 4T and 4S are much safer than other quads, so put 4Lo,4F,4Lz into the next one along.
 

DizzyFrenchie

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Yuzu is perfectly straight in the air,
However he will never land it at current rate. This is because he doesnt have enough ankle strength, and so his ankle is bending so his blade is parallel to the ice. If he managed to fully rotate it right now, his ankle is in such a bad place I am concerned he would break his ankle.
I don't want Yuzuru Hanyu to be injured!
 

yulikali

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
If I remember correctly, Yuzu said that he wanted to land the 4A in Turin. To me it seems unlikely that he would believe he could land it there for the first time ever, without his coaches being present. Idk but I interprete it that he has already landed it in training? He might have.

Also, judging by what we saw it's not quite there yet, but pretty close. Just a little higher jump or a bit faster rotation, and he might get it. Either that, or what we saw is the very limit of his physical ability. Personally, I believe that he would be able to land it someday. But in a program, when he needs to spare some strength for other jumps? Not so sure. Though, I'd love to be proven wrong.

(Of course, all this is if he doesn't injure himself. Please stay safe, everyone who attempts that jump >.< )
 

tafattsbarn

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 31, 2018
If I remember correctly, Yuzu said that he wanted to land the 4A in Turin. To me it seems unlikely that he would believe he could land it there for the first time ever, without his coaches being present. Idk but I interprete it that he has already landed it in training? He might have.

Also, judging by what we saw it's not quite there yet, but pretty close. Just a little higher jump or a bit faster rotation, and he might get it. Either that, or what we saw is the very limit of his physical ability. Personally, I believe that he would be able to land it someday. But in a program, when he needs to spare some strength for other jumps? Not so sure. Though, I'd love to be proven wrong.

(Of course, all this is if he doesn't injure himself. Please stay safe, everyone who attempts that jump >.< )

Yes, he did say his intentions by practicing it was to land it in Torino (and i dare say i think he would've come very very close had he had another 10 minutes and a few more chances to give it a try). I would assume he has landed it in practice already by now as he and his coaches have hinted at it during interviews for some months now (Tracy's commentary for TSN during Skate Canada stands out the most).

I posted the interview a few pages back, but he said that he only practiced it a few times, one to two, between Skate Canada and NHK, then not at all between NHK and GPF (a responsible choice i would say). Before that he seemed to be practicing it rather intensely whenever his condition was good enough. Remember, he said he wanted to debut the practice of it during ACI this year, but Ghislain put a stop to that.

It seems like he will start practicing it more again after nationals, so i do think we'll see great improvements in it the next time he shows it off publicly.
 

Charlotte 71

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
I don't want Yuzuru Hanyu to be injured!

I don't like to be a pooper, but these are scary attempts. I hate the way his head and neck are whipping around on these falls. It is exciting to see these attempts, and of all the skaters in the world, I'd put my bet on him, but I don't think it's worth it. He's at least a quarter turn short and doesn't seem to have control of the rotation to safely practice these. I hope he'll prove me wrong, since he seems determined to do it, but I'm scared for him.
 

waltzjump2

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
I don't like to be a pooper, but these are scary attempts. I hate the way his head and neck are whipping around on these falls. It is exciting to see these attempts, and of all the skaters in the world, I'd put my bet on him, but I don't think it's worth it. He's at least a quarter turn short and doesn't seem to have control of the rotation to safely practice these. I hope he'll prove me wrong, since he seems determined to do it, but I'm scared for him.

I agree 100%. I said I’m excited for the possibility of seeing a new jump in competition that’s never been done before, but certainly not at the expense of major injury. It seems like Yuzuru Hanyu is pretty set on it though, as you said, so I guess everyone will see.
 

Wafflecakes

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
I still feel like this push by Yuzu is a bit foolish.

I am still very confident that in a situation with a 100% clean Nathan AND Hanyu... the judges would give Hanyu the win.
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
I still feel like this push by Yuzu is a bit foolish.

I am still very confident that in a situation with a 100% clean Nathan AND Hanyu... the judges would give Hanyu the win.

I'm not sure...

Nathan really turned up the dial for the GPF, especially the FS.
I wasn't expecting him to pull that off like he did, especially as his performances at both his assignments were not as good. He gets better and better and that Rocket Man FS is one hell of an awesome program when it all goes right.

Yuzu achieved five quads but sacrificed a lot of points in the effort as he ran out of steam and the more jump focused performance. If he can overcome that however...

It will be a game of who has the biggest balls (of steel that is) to hold it all together.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I still feel like this push by Yuzu is a bit foolish.

I am still very confident that in a situation with a 100% clean Nathan AND Hanyu... the judges would give Hanyu the win.

I don't think the 4A is about winning as much as it is about making history. The GPF layout is enough to win if he can finish strong.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
I don't think the 4A is about winning as much as it is about making history. The GPF layout is enough to win if he can finish strong.

If it is about winning he just needs to train on stamina to do that content, If he's decided he wants the 4A then I don't know. He could very well land it and make a mess of other elements in a program and it would be historic but it wouldn't win.
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
If it is about winning he just needs to train on stamina to do that content, If he's decided he wants the 4A then I don't know. He could very well land it and make a mess of other elements in a program and it would be historic but it wouldn't win.

He's already won it all... I feel these goals he's setting himself are what is keeping him motivated to continue competing. He pretty much said so, didn't he?

We know how hard it is for those who've achieved so many victories already to stay motivated...Alina's recent struggles and decision to take a break for example.
 

waltzjump2

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
I'm not sure...

Nathan really turned up the dial for the GPF, especially the FS.
I wasn't expecting him to pull that off like he did, especially as his performances at both his assignments were not as good. He gets better and better and that Rocket Man FS is one hell of an awesome program when it all goes right.

Yuzu achieved five quads but sacrificed a lot of points in the effort as he ran out of steam and the more jump focused performance. If he can overcome that however...

It will be a game of who has the biggest balls (of steel that is) to hold it all together.

Also, I’ve heard Nathan Chen is training a more difficult layout, so who knows what’s going to happen at worlds.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
What else could he do? 4Lo? I mean it'd be cool to see. 4-4?

He could probably move some more difficult jumping passes to the second half, there are likely a handful of jump combos he could do. I know he did a 3S where he had intended to do a 3Flip at the grand prix final. The 4Lo could make a comeback, maybe a second 4Ltz. I feel like there's room it's just risk vs reward cause he could likely still win with the current layout if Hanyu shows up to worlds without the stamina to pull out all the technical content he plans.
 

waltzjump2

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
What else could he do? 4Lo? I mean it'd be cool to see. 4-4?

more quads or harder jumps in 2nd half.

(also this is starting to drift away from the original thread topic, not that I’m not interested in the discussion)
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
He's already won it all... I feel these goals he's setting himself are what is keeping him motivated to continue competing. He pretty much said so, didn't he?

I don't know if Yuzuru's said that, pretty much or outright, but I'll take your word for it.

But I did read a translation of an interview with him this past year (it was a link from one of our GS threads, but sorry, I didn't keep the link) when Yuzuru was asked why he continues to compete. His answer was (paraphrasing) that he wanted to continue to express the programs that only he could express.

I thought that was a great answer, and really the only good answer in my opinion. I love the idea that he continues because he can express such beautiful programs, balanced, artistic, musical, and technically superb. When he can do that, I don't know why he'd want to put himself at such high risk just to do another jump. Of course, I'm not him. But I don't enjoy his programs nearly as much when he's so focused on the jumps that he sacrifices some of the beauty and connection. JMO.
 
Top