Arena was vandalised by fans after Men's Free Skate

WednesdayMarch said:

I've loved figure skating from the first time I saw a picture of a skater in one of my storybooks. I was aged two and I'm now over 50. I've skated (to a high standard) and coached but have never, ever considered myself a "fan". To me, "fan" is a shortened form of the word "fanatic" and that has no positive connotations whatsoever. That others consider it to be a source of pride, frankly, baffles me. When attending competitions, I'll applaud every competitor. Yes, I have favourites - based on skating rather than national/tribal affiliations - but I honestly want to see every single skater perform to their best ability and be happy with that performance. And the best one should win. I think there's a far more fair system of judging now rather than in the days of the Cold War when I grew up and started competing and I'm thankful for that, even if I miss the cards with 6.0.

To see the level of vitriol that seems to exist within these "fandoms" really saddens me, but then that seems to be the way the world is going at the moment. I really hope it can be stopped. Kindness should be the way forward.

But I'm British. We tend - with some sad exceptions - not to be at home to Mr or Mrs Rude. <pours tea and proffers biscuits>

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Well said, I completely agree.

eaglehelang said:

Same as el henry, I thought chairs were thrown or there were some bloodshed. Our football team(soccer in US) one time had to go the stadium in military tanks due to threats. Recently our minister of sports got dangerously stuck in the stadium due to unruly behaviour of the losing side. Football I attribute it to sports betting.

For badminton, there are audience who cursed the players (with curse words involving one's mother) in public at the stadium when the players lost.

For FS, with the rise of social media, there are some outlandish people. Since years ago, I've seen tweets of people accusing Yuzuru of faking the tsunami incident, faking injury to gain sympathy, more recently holding prayer circles that Yuzuru will injure his limbs. If not, why would a 2X OG champ have suicidal thoughts a mere 3 months after winning his 2nd OG gold.

Evgenia received tons of bashing when she decided to leave Eteri. Traitor was the frequent term used.
Kolyada received very scathing criticism in the Russian media everytime he didnt skate well even though at the time he was battling sinus problems.

In any case, hopefully these people will find more healthy way to vent their frustrations so it doesn't get from verbal to physical.

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Very interesting. Is that ALL you saw?

lizardlass said:

This is all the more puzzling because it wasn't like Yuzuru skated perfectly and Nathan lumbered around on the ice and won undeservedly.

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That is EXACTLY why I feel this whole thing is another level of crazy. They are not even protesting an unfair win during close calls (as in previous examples). They are protesting the fact that their idol’s world record and legacy having been challenged (in their minds)!! It’s just like how Nathan was getting cyber bullied on his own Instagram just because he dared to use the goat emoji when posting a picture of himself and Kwan. Because you know, how dare he - the word GOAT or anything implying that is only reserved for someone else, in their minds.

This is sad no matter what sport and no matter who did it. I am not sure we should be associating any skater with this or these horrible acts unless there is evident the skater had somethig to do with it. They cannot control people - I won't call them fans because that is too nice. Fans cheer on their faves; not deestroy, hurt or threaten. I hope if it can be proven these people did these cries they are appropriately prosecuted ie with mischief andor threats which some others talk about. Hatred should never be against the skater or a skater. The hatred to say Adelina is ill fitting and ill put. She did not cheat. She had no control over the judges - they gave her the gold The judges are the ones giving Nathan the pcs andthe isu set up the constantly changing scoring system for tech. This is very unfortunate and sad. Fortunately most skating fans do not behave like this.

This is sad. I don't condone any type of harassment or vandalizing.

That said, this definitely shows that a lot of people are getting really frustrated and are starting to become more expressive about it. Unfair or lenient judgement/calls still persist and might be getting worse. The PCS and GOEs keep being abused and used as a tool to boost or put down other skaters. Some of the judges have their own biases as well which are too obvious if you look at the protocols.

A lof of skating fans/viewers are different now. A lot look at protocols already and are quite aware with the calls, base value, underrotation, pre-rotation, etc.

So until those issues are addressed or at least recognized, these frustrations will continue to build up and we will see more and more incidents. Whether ISU, etc will do something about it, its really up to them. Recognizing that there is an issue is definitely a first step to improvement.

Just my opinion.

This behavior is upsetting for a multitude of reasons. Mostly, it is just an awful and disrespectful thing to do.

Additionally it makes all fans look bad. I think Yuzuru is basically a figure skating god sent to bless us with beauty but it doesn’t mean I’m going to go vandalize something because I’m mad my favorite didn’t win. I truly believe that most fans can appreciate all skaters. It’s just the negative ones who make the most noise.

I wish people would remember that their favorites would never want them to do things like this.

risingtrot said:

This is sad. I don't condone any type of harassment or vandalizing.

That said, this definitely shows that a lot of people are getting really frustrated and are starting to become more expressive about it. Unfair or lenient judgement/calls still persist and might be getting worse. The PCS and GOEs keep being abused and used as a tool to boost or put down other skaters. Some of the judges have their own biases as well which are too obvious if you look at the protocols.

A lof of skating fans/viewers are different now. A lot look at protocols already and are quite aware with the calls, base value, underrotation, pre-rotation, etc.

So until those issues are addressed or at least recognized, these frustrations will continue to build up and we will see more and more incidents. Whether ISU, etc will do something about it, its really up to them. Recognizing that there is an issue is definitely a first step to improvement.

Just my opinion.

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That some people do not agree with the judging is no excuse for any of this, not in the slightest.

The ISU has nothing to do with people being disrespectful nutcases.

I don't always agree with the judging but I would not dream of doing the things some people do.

It's unfortunate the wall was defaced, but it was not entirely unexpected. Most fans would be content with writing things on their keyboards or attending events, but fans of Yuzuru Hanyu are nuts. Especially the ones with the financial means to travel around the world, to Japan or Toronto, they can be scary.

Before the 2018 Olympics, the New York times ran an article on Hanyu. Yuzuru Hanyu often had to ask Brian Orser to give him a ride home, because fans in Toronto had stalked Hanyu, memorized his bus route, and rode on the same bus with Hanyu just to be near their idol. I wouldn't be surprised if people moved from different countries just to be physically near Hanyu.

"When Hanyu was home in Japan, he sometimes skated at midnight for peace and quiet, his coach said. And in Toronto, where he trained most of the time, he occasionally called his coach to ask for a ride, uncomfortable with some fans who knew his daily routine and waited to ride the bus with him."

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People have also moved from their country to Japan just because of Hanyu was born there.

"Zeng Yuemeng, 28, an Osaka airport worker, said she had moved to Japan from China in July because of her favorite skater. She carried a Pooh keychain on her purse.

'Because this is his country,' Zeng said of Hanyu, 'maybe I can see why he has become such a perfect human.'"

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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/sports/olympics/yuzuru-hanyu.html

risingtrot said:

This is sad. I don't condone any type of harassment or vandalizing.

That said,

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And stop right there.

The second you start your "that said" paragraph you're condoning the behaviour. End of.

risingtrot said:

This is sad. I don't condone any type of harassment or vandalizing.

That said, this definitely shows that a lot of people are getting really frustrated and are starting to become more expressive about it. Unfair or lenient judgement/calls still persist and might be getting worse. The PCS and GOEs keep being abused and used as a tool to boost or put down other skaters. Some of the judges have their own biases as well which are too obvious if you look at the protocols.

A lof of skating fans/viewers are different now. A lot look at protocols already and are quite aware with the calls, base value, underrotation, pre-rotation, etc.

So until those issues are addressed or at least recognized, these frustrations will continue to build up and we will see more and more incidents. Whether ISU, etc will do something about it, its really up to them. Recognizing that there is an issue is definitely a first step to improvement.

Just my opinion.

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Oh please. ALL top skaters have been the beneficiary of lenient calling and excessive GOEs, and PCS has been misused for as long as the IJS has been in place, but we never saw their rivals’ fans go to the unhinged extent that THESE people have. And certainly there have been much, much more atrocious calling and and GOEs rewarded at other competitions to other competitors than those rewarded to Nathan Chen at this competition, so let’s not try to turn this into a narrative that this was some kind of general sentiment over unfair scoring manifesting itself. It was not. It was clearly targeted toward one skater by one particular group of fans. And I highly doubt the people who did this have much knowledge of FS scoring or FS in general, or care about the general well being of the sport.

risingtrot said:

This is sad. I don't condone any type of harassment or vandalizing.

That said, this definitely shows that a lot of people are getting really frustrated and are starting to become more expressive about it. Unfair or lenient judgement/calls still persist and might be getting worse. The PCS and GOEs keep being abused and used as a tool to boost or put down other skaters. Some of the judges have their own biases as well which are too obvious if you look at the protocols.

A lof of skating fans/viewers are different now. A lot look at protocols already and are quite aware with the calls, base value, underrotation, pre-rotation, etc.

So until those issues are addressed or at least recognized, these frustrations will continue to build up and we will see more and more incidents. Whether ISU, etc will do something about it, its really up to them. Recognizing that there is an issue is definitely a first step to improvement.

Just my opinion.

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In this aspect, having an avenue for formal complaints, without the fear of repercussions, would be good.

In gymnastics we can do that, protest against biased judging :
https://www.google.com/amp/www.stad...aysia-cry-foul-over-gymnastics-judging/156241

lizardlass said:

Wow, that person unleashes all of that wrath despite the fact that Nathan and Yuzu are praising each other to the high heavens. AND, Nathan very humbly ADMITS that he doesn't compare to Yuzuru artistically. These two awesome, amazing skaters respect each other so immensely. People have the right to disagree with the results, but they are disgracing themselves with such cruel personal attacks. I really don't know what they hope to achieve.

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It’s so sad that the mutual respect that these two have for each other, as you said, is negligible to many of these fans. They will always take every opportunity to bash the rival and uphold their fave - even when their fave “admits” positive qualities in their rival or their own needs for improvement.

Funny enough, though, Hanyu also “ADMITS” that he needs to learn about the balance between jumps and program and declares that Nathan is able to do that.

“Hanyu: I have to learn about the balance btwn jumps and program - Nathan is able to do that. “

I find it interesting how certain fans are crowing things like “at least he’s admitting it!” when Chen makes a remark like “Program components - I'm still not comparable to Yuzu. I want to keep working on that.” But when Yuzu makes a humbling comment about Nathan having better program balance suddenly there is vehement disagreement or dismissal of Yuzu’s comment.

For the record, Hanyu when he skates clean is still better than Chen on PCS (IMO)... but the reality was that he was not clean - in both programs, whereas Chen was. Fans have it in their heads how high his PCS should be - I mean, did those other fans with the Unfair Scoring sign people come prepared with those signs? And the reality is some of these fans will still cry about the PCS and GOE - thinking every jump Hanyu does deserves a +5 if he stays on his feet (without looking at other aspects of the jump) and none of Chen’s jumps deserve over a +2 even if pristinely executed. Hanyu commits a major error in the SP and yet they complain his 47 PCS underscoring?! He commits multiple errors in his FS (including slipping on his ending pose) and was obviously laboured and slowed by the end and they think 93 is ridiculous? Chen’s PCS was a bit too high in both programs but at least he was clean - and when you give 93 to a skater with multiple errors and belabored and sloppy ending, it’s unsurprising that a much cleaner skater whose program builds and ends with better energy and impact from said clean program is showered with bigger scores.

And the sense of entitlement some of them have - geez... saying things like Yuzu should retire so the ISU feels the burn from the lack of ticket sales... as if he should be owed gold medals and higher scores to keep the ticket sales high. I suppose we should give him the gold from the get-go and 10’s for pops/stepouts just so that arenas don’t get vandalized and ticket revenue stays up? I suppose Chen should bow out of every competition so Hanyu can have more Skate Canada blowouts (to which some fans STILL complained of underscoring?!). Puh-lease.

While some have denounced the malicious reactions to Chen’s win, I still don’t see the fandom putting as much effort as they do into being vocal about underscoring of Hanyu as they do in denouncing the vandalism or signs or bullying of skaters supporting/congratulating Chen like Liza ... with some rude Tweets like “of course someone with programs as bland and empty as Chen would congratulate him”. The saltiness is so real.

This is a pervasive problem and manifesting itself worse and worse with each competition. It takes away from the brilliant performances these guys had and the efforts they are making to push the sport forward. “Fanatics” indeed.

lappo said:

Etymology post alert!!! The word "fan" is commonly accepted by language scientist to be an abbreviation of "fanatic". English "fanatic" comes from the Latin adjective "fanaticus", which derives from Latin "fanum", one of the many words that were used to describe Roman temples. "Fanaticus" initially was used with the meaning "related to the temple" (i.e. pecunia fanatica = the money of the temple, common in Latin inscriptions) but later it became to be used to describe the attitude and passionate feelings of the believers towards the cult/cults.
That said, I agree that there is nothing wrong in being a fan of a skater or many skaters or the sport in general! :thumbsup:

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Oooh, I love a good etymology post! Thank you for that one.

"The Fancy", on the other hand, generally refers to the hobby or pastime of, for example, breeding and showing cats or rabbit, or racing pigeons. So you can be a "cat fancier" without being creepy as hell! (Some of them are scary as hell, but that's another story...)

The English language is a wonderful but sometimes nonsensical thing. I take my hat off to anybody who learns it as a second (or further) language and communicates as well as so many of the people in these fora.

brightphoton said:

It's unfortunate the wall was defaced, but it was not entirely unexpected. Most fans would be content with writing things on their keyboards or attending events, but fans of Yuzuru Hanyu are nuts. Especially the ones with the financial means to travel around the world, to Japan or Toronto, they can be scary.

Before the 2018 Olympics, the New York times ran an article on Hanyu. Yuzuru Hanyu often had to ask Brian Orser to give him a ride home, because fans in Toronto had stalked Hanyu, memorized his bus route, and rode on the same bus with Hanyu just to be near their idol. I wouldn't be surprised if people moved from different countries just to be physically near Hanyu.



People have also moved from their country to Japan just because of Hanyu was born there.



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/sports/olympics/yuzuru-hanyu.html

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Let's not generalize, there are crazy fans on every fandom, it just so happens that Yuzu's is particularly large and therefore there are more crazy fans in his fandom. It's just math.

Were the people who vandalized and left gross comments on social media to Brian/others, disgusting? Absolutely yes, it's called logic.

It's this whole situation being blown out of proportion? Absolutely yes, people are acting as these fans committed a serious felony.

Let's juts be sensible humans, agree that this behavior is wrong and should not be repeated, and move on.

Disgraceful to see, but i'm not surprised.

The escalation of outrage will continue as long as the ISU remains unresponsive and untransparent. The hostility between fans and the ISU has been building since at least Sochi. This of course does no justify bad behaviour, but the ISU has been aware of the frustrations and fans have sought comments and clarifications from them for some time now and yet they continue to leave it unadressed. I was not expecting things to escalate to real life vitriol at this GPF, but it's clear as day to me that we wouldn't make it to the 2022 Olympics without one or more incidents. The ongoing radicalization of fans and their actions is due to people feeling desperate as they feel their voices aren't being heard.

Something as simple as the ISU holding a press conference at events where they explain their scores and mic the deliberations of the technical panel, showing fans what they see, would help a bit as it would introduce some type of public accountability. They should also do post competition reviews of scores that are released publicly like gymnastics does. Even these small steps would help.

As a very devoted fan of Hanyu i'm not sure what can be done on a fan level though. It's not as if most fans don't denounce this type of behaviour. Hanyu fans exist on many platforms that operate in many different languages, and they all have their own fan subculture. There just is no way to enforce discipline or order. This is very evident when the fandom can't even come to an agreement over something as stupid as when to sing happy birthday (or whether to sing at all) without fracturing and disagreeing heavily, as happened the week before the competition. So how are we supposed to deal with fans that step over the line other than telling them to cut it out and reevaluate? It feels kind of hopeless and it's impossible to govern the crazy people (how long have Hanyu fans been trying to get the padded jacket stalker to stop for example? It just doesn't work) as they refuse to listen and act up worse when criticized.

With the exception of attacking someone's sexuality, the rest is not particularly extreme at all.
Just people disagreeing.
It is not defacing symbolic places, holding up signs while Nathan's national anthem is playing, or making vile death threats.

It is just disagreement and people trying to prove their opinion is the right one.

Some people genuinely feel Yuzu was lucky be second after the SP and I'm inclined to agree with that, it could have been Much worse. That's not being nasty, trolling or attacking anyone, but an opinion.

Did the post I responded to get deleted...confused

Mishaminion said:

With the exception of attacking someone's sexuality, the rest is not particularly extreme at all.
Just people disagreeing.
It is not defacing symbolic places, holding up signs while Nathan's national anthem is playing, or making vile death threats.

It is just disagreement and people trying to prove their opinion is the right one.

Some people genuinely feel Yuzu was lucky be second after the SP and I'm inclined to agree with that, it could have been Much worse. That's not being nasty, trolling or attacking anyone, but an opinion.

Did the post I responded to get deleted...confused

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Wait, so there were fans making homophobic remarks as well? I was not aware of this, personally I find this worse than the vandalism.

Ulrica said:

Wait, so there were fans making homophobic remarks as well? I was not aware of this, personally I find this worse than the vandalism.

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Not sure. A poster mentioned someone who posted a score analysis had their sexuality attacked...which is disgusting because that has nothing to do with it.

But I wouldn't be surprised if some of the nastiness directed towards skaters includes saying such disgusting things either. I have seen people make homophobic comments before towards skaters, even if they're not gay, it's stupid.

Ulrica said:

Wait, so there were fans making homophobic remarks as well? I was not aware of this, personally I find this worse than the vandalism.

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Yes, cos the uploader/OP is gay. As in insulting the uploader for saying Nathan is overscored in PCS, detailing his reasons why.

The forum mods have deleted my post cos I posted the youtube link, something abt cross forum rules.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

It’s so sad that the mutual respect that these two have for each other, as you said, is negligible to many of these fans. They will always take every opportunity to bash the rival and uphold their fave - even when their fave “admits” positive qualities in their rival or their own needs for improvement.

Funny enough, though, Hanyu also “ADMITS” that he needs to learn about the balance between jumps and program and declares that Nathan is able to do that.

I find it interesting how certain fans are crowing things like “at least he’s admitting it!” when Chen makes a remark like “Program components - I'm still not comparable to Yuzu. I want to keep working on that.” But when Yuzu makes a humbling comment about Nathan having better program balance suddenly there is vehement disagreement or dismissal of Yuzu’s comment.

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That wasn't my intention. I suppose I should have used a different word, as it is a bit distressing to see my word choice quoted multiple times in such a manner. :shocked:

risingtrot said:

This is sad. I don't condone any type of harassment or vandalizing.

That said, this definitely shows that a lot of people are getting really frustrated and are starting to become more expressive about it. Unfair or lenient judgement/calls still persist and might be getting worse. The PCS and GOEs keep being abused and used as a tool to boost or put down other skaters. Some of the judges have their own biases as well which are too obvious if you look at the protocols.

A lof of skating fans/viewers are different now. A lot look at protocols already and are quite aware with the calls, base value, underrotation, pre-rotation, etc.

So until those issues are addressed or at least recognized, these frustrations will continue to build up and we will see more and more incidents. Whether ISU, etc will do something about it, its really up to them. Recognizing that there is an issue is definitely a first step to improvement.

Just my opinion.

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You should have stopped after the first sentence. But...

We debate edge calls, rotations, PCS categories, etc continually on this forum. And, hey, that's why we're all here. Almost none of us can be classified as "casual fans."

But still, all in all, I think the judging system does a pretty good job of determining who is best at any particular competition.

Can you name an instance in the past five years where you thought the final result was just plain wrong?

I'm not talking about a difference of opinion as in "I can see how this could go either way, but I'd have gone for X rather than Y." I'm talking about unfair judging that completely robbed someone else.

Because I can't. Sure, I've wished my favorite won, and there have been winners that I really don't enjoy... but I honestly can't remember a recent case where the judges just obviously screwed someone in terms of placement, at least those in the upper echelons.

Certainly, Hanyu hasn't been screwed over in terms of placement in recent memory. Or do you think he has?