Olympic figure skater, coaches being investigated for allegations | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Olympic figure skater, coaches being investigated for allegations

Colonel Green

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Mar 3, 2018
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Canada
To be honest to me it looks like Dispenza knew that Cipres is a pedofile, so he tried to out him this way?
I kind of read it that way as well, like entrapment. Maybe the girls reported to him first and he was looking to confirm their accounts??

Either way it’s icky.
If that was his goal, he would have reported the incident to SafeSport, as he was actually required to do.
Christine Brennan is and has always been into sensationalism and "allegedly and purportedly" are her standard phrases.
Those are standard reporter jargon when discussing things that have not been proven in court.
 

Ulrica

On the Ice
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Mar 22, 2018
Christine Brennan is and has always been into sensationalism and "allegedly and purportedly" are her standard phrases. So everybody, including many here, have already tried the people involved and found them guilty. Where there's smoke there's fire so none of this should be taken lightly but let's let the right people do the investigation and the damnation. I do feel sorry for the teenager involved because her world has just blown up. However, pictures are one thing - out and out rape and sexual abuse is a whole different situation. None of it should be condoned but putting someone's feet to the fire before a thorough investigation has been completed can lead to...............oh yeah, suicide!!!

He sent a dick pic to a 13 year old child, I don't care if someone "set him up". I don't care if he did it on his own, or if he did it after the girls "asked him" for the picture (while being pressured by another adult), he still did it. He is a freaking adult, and the fact that he somehow thought it was okay to sent that to a CHILD means there's something very, very wrong with him.

Many women and girls have committed suicide because of sexual abuse/harassment, hell I though about committing suicide myself multiple times after I was sexually harassed as a child by my older cousin. I refuse to feel sorry for a 20 something year old dude who sent inappropriate pictures to children, because oh my, he might commit suicide.
 

[email protected]

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Mar 26, 2014
In many previous cases I was skeptical when people accused others for sexual harassment based on hearsay. This time it looks like allegations are not unfounded. I looked at Morgan's instagram and twitter to see if the matter has been discussed there. It has not. But in both places his avatar is a picture where he half-naked shows his muscles. Looks like he is full of his masculinity.

I am aware that the rules of conduct for machos in USA/UK on the one hand and Russia/Mexico and to a certain extent France on the other hand are different. Nevertheless, sending a picture of one's penis is at the minimum a very bad taste.
 

Alegria

On the Ice
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Mar 15, 2014
Country
Ukraine
According to the article, this is the rough timeline:
- December 3, 2017: Morgan Cipres sends the pictures
(Unclear on the entire story, but Vinny Dispenza allegedly has been encouraging the teenage girl + another teenage girl to ask Cipres to send them pictures.)
- the evening of December 3, 2017(?): John Zimmerman and Silvia Fontana, along with Dispenza, find out about the photos ("Zimmerman and Fontana, who are married to each other, were made aware of the photos in a meeting with Dispenza at their home that evening, the girl and her parents said.")
How? Girl said? Morgan said? Or Dispenza?

All this is so weird.
I just can't understand why adults involve children.
 

Sugar Coated

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
In many previous cases I was skeptical when people accused others for sexual harassment based on hearsay. This time it looks like allegations are not unfounded. I looked at Morgan's instagram and twitter to see if the matter has been discussed there. It has not. But in both places his avatar is a picture where he half-naked shows his muscles. Looks like he is full of his masculinity.

I am aware that the rules of conduct for machos in USA/UK on the one hand and Russia/Mexico and to a certain extent France on the other hand are different. Nevertheless, sending a picture of one's penis is at the minimum a very bad taste.

It’s more than bad taste. It’s harassment. It’s essentially flashing a child.
 

NaVi

Medalist
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
At least based on the reporting, it doesn’t seem like there’s much ambiguity as to the facts. Zimmerman/Fontana need to be permanently banned from coaching, if so.

There's quite a bit of ambiguity about why the dick picks were sent and what exactly Zimmerman and Fontana did.
 

believed

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
There's quite a bit of ambiguity about why the dick picks were sent and what exactly Zimmerman and Fontana did.

Yet the dick pics WERE sent. Additionally: "The girls and her parents said that instead of going to police or SafeSport, which opened in March 2017 to investigate sexual abuse in Olympic sports, Zimmerman and Fontana implored them to stay quiet because Cipres and his pairs partner Vanessa James were in the final stages of their preparation for the 2018 Winter Olympics in South Korea, where they finished fifth The girl and her parents allege Zimmerman and Fontana intimidated the girl for several weeks, telling her that she was at fault for receiving the pictures because she was a “pretty girl and men have their needs,” that no one would believe her and that she would be shamed on social media, particularly in France, where Cipres is popular.

Dispenza also allegedly issued a threat. “If I said something, he said I would never skate again,” the girl said.
"
 

nussnacker

one and only
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If that was his goal, he would have reported the incident to SafeSport, as he was actually required to do.

This whole thing is so confusing, I didn’t initially read the part that Dispenza later intimidated the girl too...
Why in the world was he doing that? What’s happening?
They need to investigate him as well, this looks like there might be more abusers involved.
 

Colonel Green

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Mar 3, 2018
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Canada
There's quite a bit of ambiguity about why the dick picks were sent and what exactly Zimmerman and Fontana did.
That the pictures were sent is a fact, from the looks of it, and that's all that really matters.

In theory, you could choose to believe that the family made up a bunch of lies about Zimmerman and Fontana for some reason, but on what basis would you think that other than not wanting it to be true? It's certainly not the most likely scenario.
 

Edwin

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This case probably won't stand up in SafeSport by itself, a 13 year old, scared and confused, against at least three 'respected adults' in positions of authority and power. The usual imbalance ... And she might get accused for slander in retaliation.

But this kind of behaviour is often endemic in the perpetrators, so more evidence from different victims is needed. Already brave of this girl to speak out, because now she will have to face all the insinuations, h@te, lies and worse. Her identity will leak soon, no matter what precautions. But there is no turning back anymore.
 

flanker

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Feb 10, 2018
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How nice that the victim blamers are already out, as if a 13-year-old (!!!) would make up these charges against a famous skater and coaches and a host of adults believe her credulously. Because that happens so often to victims of sex crimes? BTW is all the correspondence in the article "alleged" too?

Anyway I'm just disgusted. Ban all these people from the sport and arrest them. My heart goes out to the accused and her family, and I hope they get their justice.

Mentioning presumption of innocence is not "victim blaming". There was a line used in this thread:

"If Cipres, Zimmerman, Fontana and the third coach are innocent of these allegations, well, they're grown adults. They'll survive, one way or another."

So, let's imagine a situation in which truly innocent person is blamed publicly, his name turns into a muck, his career is completely destroyed and at the end they will say to him "sorry, it turned out you are innocent, but you are grown adult, deal with it." No, thanks.

If he and the coaches are guilty, then they deserve harsh punisment. But that's the matter of the police and justice, not the public outcry. We are proud of civilization, but people still tend to live in times of lynch law.
 

DSQ

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Apr 14, 2018
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United-Kingdom
According to the article the police are involved but the Safe Sport investigation is only into the coaches as Cipres is not a member of the USFSA.
 

Ophelia

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Dec 6, 2013
I am very very glad the victim has image and email receipts, or else the victim blamers and "won't you think of the poor man" posters would be out in even more force.

And wouldn't you know, some posters are still, "But they're just dick pics! Let's not jump to conclusions!"

I wonder if some of you would be so blase if it were your child involved.
 

Colonel Green

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Canada
This case probably won't stand up in SafeSport by itself, a 13 year old, scared and confused, against at least three 'respected adults' in positions of authority and power. The usual imbalance ... And she might get accused for slander in retaliation.
It isn't "just" a 13-year-old, though. There's physical evidence that the picture was sent, and her family reported it to Zimmerman and Fontana, who did not report it to SafeSport even though they were required to do that.

Mentioning presumption of innocence is not "victim blaming". There was a line used in this thread:

"If Cipres, Zimmerman, Fontana and the third coach are innocent of these allegations, well, they're grown adults. They'll survive, one way or another."

So, let's imagine a situation in which truly innocent person is blamed publicly, his name turns into a muck, his career is completely destroyed and at the end they will say to him "sorry, it turned out you are innocent, but you are grown adult, deal with it." No, thanks.

If he and the coaches are guilty, then they deserve harsh punisment. But that's the matter of the police and justice, not the public outcry. We are proud of civilization, but people still tend to live in times of lynch law.
The presumption of innocence is a matter for court. It doesn't mean that people can't evaluate the evidence outside of a legal context and decide who they believe.
 

Ophelia

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Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Also, if Cipres tries to claim he got hacked, the victims family can get IG involved and ascertain whether he is lying or not.
 

IceDancingQueen

Final Flight
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Dec 7, 2017
Mentioning presumption of innocence is not "victim blaming".

So, let's imagine a situation in which truly innocent person is blamed publicly, his name turns into a muck, his career is completely destroyed and at the end they will say to him "sorry, it turned out you are innocent, but you are grown adult, deal with it." No, thanks.

I understand your point but what about all the victims that have been telling truth who have their lives ruined? Yes, there will unfortunately be false allegations in cases but the majority of the time, it’s the victims who to tell the truth and speak out that have their lives ruined. It’s already so difficult for victims to speak out and it doesn’t help when people continue to rush to the defense of the accused.

Every time there is an accusation of abuse whether in sport, entertainment or business etc. there is always someone defending the accused and claiming the victim is lying. What’s more likely? That ALL these victims are lying or that the ones who are accused abused their power? You just need to look back at history to know the answer.
 

Edwin

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Also, if Cipres tries to claim he got hacked, the victims family can get IG involved and ascertain whether he is lying or not.

Social media as a credible source of evidence? Are IG and its consorts even required to keep server logs on all hundreds of millions of accounts? Privacy laws, child protection laws, many of which are poorly implemented or not implemented at all, going back to 2017?
 

theharleyquinn

Medalist
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Social media as a credible source of evidence? Are IG and its consorts even required to keep server logs on all hundreds of millions of accounts? Privacy laws, child protection laws, many of which are poorly implemented or not implemented at all, going back to 2017?

Yes Instagram does provide information to law enforcement to aid in criminal investigations.

https://help.instagram.com/494561080557017
 
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