Curious about what Radius of Hollow you skate on :) | Golden Skate

Curious about what Radius of Hollow you skate on :)

1111bm

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Hey everyone,
I would love to hear what ROH you skate on and which blades you have. :)
(assuming you skate on a traditionally sharpened blade and not some fancy variety which doesn't have a radius anymore)
Maybe also which country you live in, if you don't mind sharing that info, and what your current level of skating is.

Maybe some would also like to share their thoughts and experiences on how the radius of your blade influences your skating, if at all (apart from the obvious, i.e. a deeper/smaller radius having more grip and being better suited for hard ice).

I sometimes chat with my sharpener and he mentioned how there's differences between countries on what radius is considered convention and what skaters are used to because they grow up with it and different 'philosophies' regarding the depth of the radius you skate on. How some feel that skating on a more shallow radius will teach you better skating skills because you don't rely so much on the bite of your blades and things like that.

He also mentioned that even with the same radius, it depends on how the sharpener finishes off the edges, so a seemingly shallow radius can still have more of a bite than the radius sharpened by someone else (obviously this also depends on the quality of the material of a blade). Not sure this is true, though?

I'm very sensitive to changes in my blades or the ice I skate on, and I envy people who are not bothered by that and don't feel any difference or quickly adapt to any circumstances (and I skate at multiple rinks which all have different ice, especially one of them which is an outside rink, so you'd think I'd be used to that :rolleye:).
So yeah, I'm just curious to hear other people's thoughts on that and would also love to know what radius elite skaters skate on, if anyone has any info on that.
 

Bill S

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
United-States
Since September, I've been experimenting with a number of different blades. I also have a sharpening machine that has assisted in the experiments. I have purchased MK Professionals, Coronation Aces, Ultima Protege, Eclipse Dance, Pattern 99, and Gold Seal blades. Two sets were pre-owned with light usage from the 'Bay, the rest were purchased new from the pro-shop at Ohio State University, or from Kinzie's.

In the past I skated on 3/8" ROH on Coronation Aces because I hand sharpened, and 7/16" was not an option. Now I can dial in anything I want with my Wissota sharpener.

Here are my preferences during this testing..
For the MK Pro, Wilson Coronation Ace and Pattern 99 (blades averaging a little more than 0.160" thick), I can use 7/16" nicely. I've been to 3/8" without any difficulty on some of those blades.

The Ultima Protege are a little thinner, around 0.150", and 7/16" worked OK with them too.

The Eclipse Dance were very thin blades at 0.125" thick, and I had to go to 3/8" to reduce skidding.

The Gold Seals have tapered blades, 0.149" in front tapering to a thin 0.135" in the back. I am between 3/8" and 7/16" on those. A 7/16" ROH skidded too much for my tastes. If I choose them for long-term usage, I might opt to go down to 3/8".
 

Bill S

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
United-States
I'll add a data point for a multiple-year Scottish national champion and a former British team member for 6 years. He did a stint touring with shows where he has performed back flips on the ice.

He gave to me his old pair of Wilson Gold Seals blades to use for sharpening practice. With radius gauges I measured his ROH to be 5/16". The ROH is visibly very, very deep, and is the only time I've seen someone with figure skates that aggressively sharpened.
 

1111bm

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
For the MK Pro, Wilson Coronation Ace and Pattern 99 (blades averaging a little more than 0.160" thick), I can use 7/16" nicely. I've been to 3/8" without any difficulty on some of those blades.

The Ultima Protege are a little thinner, around 0.150", and 7/16" worked OK with them too.

The Eclipse Dance were very thin blades at 0.125" thick, and I had to go to 3/8" to reduce skidding.

The Gold Seals have tapered blades, 0.149" in front tapering to a thin 0.135" in the back. I am between 3/8" and 7/16" on those. A 7/16" ROH skidded too much for my tastes. If I choose them for long-term usage, I might opt to go down to 3/8".

Thank you for providing the blade thickness too, that was one of the reasons I asked for the blade model, because it can really make a difference. :)

I used Hockey Skates for 1-1,5 years before I switched to my first 'real' figure skating blades, which were a lot thicker, so even with the same ROH (1/2" at the time) it obviously felt a lot grippier and it took me some time to adjust to them, and one more year until I could handle 7/16" (don't know if I gained some muscle in my legs or got better at coordination or how else that happened?).

I'm currently on Gold Seals and had to go back to a 1/2" ROH because 7/16" felt like too much, I assume because of the sharper edges due to the side honing. Which I found really fascinating, that skating on the same ROH I could feel such a big difference compared to my old blades, which weren't side-honed.

I grew up skating on super dull, second-hand, recreational wannabe figure skates, and I think that might be the reason why I struggle so much with small radii, because I'm simply not used to skating with any grip at all (then again, all I did was some two-footed gliding on the flat of the blade and some meek attempts at crossovers without any actual edges :laugh:).
And I don't weigh much, so you'd think I should be able to take a deeper ROH. It boggles my mind how people can skate with so much bite :laugh: makes me feel really incompetent or like I have super weak leg muscles. :drama:
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Not me, but my 11 year old daughter skates on Wilson Gold Seals, currently on 7/16 but debating a change to give more grip edge jump takeoffs.
 

WednesdayMarch

Nicer When Fed
Medalist
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Country
United-Kingdom
I currently skate on MK Dance. I've never, ever had a clue about ROH. Seriously. It's never come up. But everybody who has sharpened my blades over the past 30 years has known how I skate. I'm probably lucky in always having somebody who knows what they're doing!
 

MCsAngel2

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 10, 2019
I skate on Mark IVs, beginner blades. 1/2" ROH. Although they recently were sharpened elsewhere to fix a bad sharpening, and they feel grippier somehow (though he asked me what ROH I wanted specifically).
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
I have Wilson CAs and I have those on 10mm which is a tad more than 3/8s but basically 3/8 :)

I prefer very sharp blades also. Our sharpener only visits the rink every 6 weeks, so on 7/16 they were just too dull by the 6th week.
 

Flying Feijoa

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Country
New-Zealand
I have MK Pros, not sure what radius of hollow...

I have a really bad habit of neglecting blade sharpenings (on average I've gone every 4-6 months despite skating ~4 hours a week). Partly because the sharpener lives over an hour away, and partly because I seem to adjust at the same rate as the edges wear down so I don't notice a difference (or blame my technique if something seems off). I just had them done before my latest session, and am pleasantly surprised by the amount of height that my edge jumps are getting, plus footwork feels crisper. However it seems like there's less margin of error when entering spins, as mine were either great or terrible on that day! Edges also seem stickier, the sensation is a bit like when I'm on an elliptical and crank up the resistance.

Just wondering if the sharpness/grip of the blade actually corresponds with skating skill level. Does skating on blunt blades or shallow hollows allow for sloppier technique? Or is it more a matter of personal preference?
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
I skated for many years on the Wilson Coronation Ace, then switched to Eclipse Aurora (nominally comparable to Wilson Coronation Ace), then switched again to my current Paramount Freestyle 12" (nominally comparable to Wilson Gold Seal in toepicks, spin rocker, and main rocker, but no side honing and no taper). On the Coronation Ace, I first started with 7/16" ROH, but then switched to 3/8" because I was having trouble with my entry to the scratch spin, and the extra bite helped. I've stayed with 3/8" on subsequent blades.

After grinding, there are residual burrs along the edges. These burrs are typically removed by the skate tech via manual honing with an abrasive stone. The final edge quality varies a lot with the coarseness and material of the stone, and with the skill of the tech. So, yes, a larger ROH could have sharper edges than a smaller ROH, depending on how the edges are finished. I like my edges wicked sharp, so I always tell the tech not to intentionally dull them (which some skaters prefer), and I do additional honing myself to produce even sharper edges.
 

SmallAminal

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
My son has Phantoms and it was somehow done on a recreational 1/2 inch (but to be fair, he has always had this). Coach wants to move to 7/16 inch I think.

My son hates when his skates get dull - and now I'm wondering if he's struggling with 2S because of his dull blades?

On a related note, if we use old skates and blades for pond skating, is there a preferred ROH for "longevity" (i.e. lasting longer through rough skating surfaces while going around in a circle). My son loves going outdoor skating but it kills your blades....that's why we only use "old" skates for that.
 

1111bm

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Just wondering if the sharpness/grip of the blade actually corresponds with skating skill level. Does skating on blunt blades or shallow hollows allow for sloppier technique? Or is it more a matter of personal preference?

My turns (the tracing on the ice) certainly look cleaner with a fresh sharpening, than when they're starting to get dull, which then can lead to skidded turns, particularly when the ice is hard. So I'd say precision is easier with sharper blades, but it feels like you need to be skilled and/or have enough leg strength so it doesn't come at the expense of glide and flow.

But it is true that with sharper blades you can't be as sloppy with your feet, meaning things like not lifting your free leg enough and dragging it accidentally across the ice or just generally needing enough stretch in your legs/feet so you don't catch the ice. At least that's my experience.


On a related note, if we use old skates and blades for pond skating, is there a preferred ROH for "longevity" (i.e. lasting longer through rough skating surfaces while going around in a circle). My son loves going outdoor skating but it kills your blades....that's why we only use "old" skates for that.

I would assume that the edges of a deeper i.e. smaller radius are more susceptible to being worn down/becoming dull, because they're sharper, meaning thinner and there's less material that you skate on and which carries the weight of the skater.

But even with edges that are not as sharp anymore, since the hollow is deeper, it might still feel 'grippier" for longer than a more shallow sharpening I think.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
My son has Phantoms and it was somehow done on a recreational 1/2 inch (but to be fair, he has always had this). Coach wants to move to 7/16 inch I think.

My son hates when his skates get dull - and now I'm wondering if he's struggling with 2S because of his dull blades?

You shouldn't correlate ROH with skill level (e.g., characterize a 1/2" ROH as a recreational level, and a 7/16" ROH as a more advanced level). There are far too many variables for such a simplistic correlation. I'm friends with an advanced freestylist. She lands all her triples, except double axel, has wicked spins, and deep, deep edges. Her blades are P99 Revolutions. Her ROH? 3/4". Her superior technique gives her great edge control even with the large ROH. At the same time, the large ROH affords her swooping, majestic glides down the length of the ice. Meanwhile, I'm still struggling with my scratch spins, and use a 3/8" ROH as a crutch on my entrances.

On a related note, if we use old skates and blades for pond skating, is there a preferred ROH for "longevity" (i.e. lasting longer through rough skating surfaces while going around in a circle). My son loves going outdoor skating but it kills your blades....that's why we only use "old" skates for that.

*IF* you know how to touch up edges via hand honing, I would recommend that you start with a 3/8" ROH. As the blades get dinged, you can sharpen the edges via hand honing. The depth of hollow will get reduced as the edges wear, and the edge angles won't stay true, but the edges will stay sharp enough to keep skating on. Roughly speaking, the effective ROH will increase from 3/8" to 7/16" to 1/2". As long as there is a reasonable hollow left, you can sharpen the edges via hand honing. When the wear is excessive, you'll need another machine sharpening to restore the hollow. But hand honing can greatly increase the interval between machine sharpenings.

However, if you don't know how to hand hone, then I would recommend a 1/2" ROH, since the edges are less fragile than with a smaller ROH.
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
My son has Phantoms and it was somehow done on a recreational 1/2 inch (but to be fair, he has always had this). Coach wants to move to 7/16 inch I think.

My son hates when his skates get dull - and now I'm wondering if he's struggling with 2S because of his dull blades?

On a related note, if we use old skates and blades for pond skating, is there a preferred ROH for "longevity" (i.e. lasting longer through rough skating surfaces while going around in a circle). My son loves going outdoor skating but it kills your blades....that's why we only use "old" skates for that.

Personally, so not universally true for every skater, we all have preferences, I usually notice my edge jumps are larger and easier after a sharpening. So my 2S and 1A are a lot easier the first couple weeks after a sharpen. The thing is, the opposite could be true depending on the skater.
 

bostonskaterguy86

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Country
United-States
Adult skater here, at roughly USFSA Freeskate 2 (currently polishing up 1T and 1S, and learning 1Lo).

I am pretty sure my tech has me on 1/2” ROH, but I’m questioning whether I might need it a bit deeper. I’m sure some of this is my technique, but I have noticed a big difference in how my edges feel on the relatively soft ice at the rink where I take group lessons, versus the harder ice at the rinks I practice at.

It’s frustrating when I’m trying to learn the 1Lo to be able to get a decent grip on the takeoff edge at lessons, and then to skid all over the place when I try to practice. I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere at all with the jump. I’m also struggling with spins, as well - on the softer ice my one-foot upright spin feels decently secure and I’ve gotten as many as six revolutions, but on hard ice I skid off the left inside edge and I can usually only get two or three revolutions before I have to bail out due to skidding/wobbling.

I’m sure most of this is issues with my technique, and that more practice will help, but I’m also wondering if maybe a 7/16” would be more suitable for the harder ice where I do most of my practicing.
 

Bill S

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
United-States
Go for 7/16" and give it a try. It's a very commonly used ROH. Changing back is just another sharpening away if it doesn't work.

Only personal experimentation, performed thoughtfully, will determine what works best for you.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
I’m sure most of this is issues with my technique, and that more practice will help, but I’m also wondering if maybe a 7/16” would be more suitable for the harder ice where I do most of my practicing.
By all means, try the 7/16" ROH. If you still find yourself skidding on the hard ice, then try 3/8" ROH. I also need to flip back and forth between hard and soft ice.
 

bunnybarista

If I risk it all, could you break my fall?~
On the Ice
Joined
May 27, 2018
I use 7/16" on my Coronation Aces and find it suitable for both dance and freestyle at my level (Bronze-ish). I'll never willingly go back to 1/2", but I'd consider trying 3/8" as I generally like a more grippy blade. To maintain that grip, I tend to get a new sharpening ever 40-ish hours.
 
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