What will happen to the three World spots Kazakhstan has in ladies?

Lunalovesskating · Jan 5, 2020

As Kazakhstan has three World spots in ladies due to Elizabet's silver medal last season and no one except Elizabet has reached the technical minimum for Worlds, as far as I know, I wonder what will happen to these other two spots. Can Kazakhstan give one or two of those spots away for this season's Worlds? Can ISU force them to give them away? It would be a waste in my opinion to have two empty spots at Worlds that could be filled with skaters from other countries, who have the technical minimum.

crazydreamer · Jan 5, 2020

They should go to whichever country/countries came closest to qualifying for extra spots last year. Neither Kazakhstan nor the ISU should be "giving spots away" because that seems like a recipe for corruption and abuse.

Lunalovesskating · Jan 5, 2020

crazydreamer said:
They should go to whichever country/countries came closest to qualifying for extra spots last year. Neither Kazakhstan nor the ISU should be "giving spots away" because that seems like a recipe for corruption and abuse.

With giving away I meant that Kazakhstan gives those spots up, not that they can choose who they give their spots to.

CaroLiza_fan · Jan 5, 2020

Lunalovesskating said:
As Kazakhstan has three World spots in ladies due to Elizabet's silver medal last season and no one except Elizabet has reached the technical minimum for Worlds, as far as I know, I wonder what will happen to these other two spots. Can Kazakhstan give one or two of those spots away for this season's Worlds? Can ISU force them to give them away? It would be a waste in my opinion to have two empty spots at Worlds that could be filled with skaters from other countries, who have the technical minimum.

There are still plenty of Senior B's to go before Worlds that the other Kazakh skaters can compete in to try and get the minimums. For example, Aiza Mambekova is competing at the Toruń Cup next weekend.

So, no need to panic just yet.

Incidentally, Aiza's SP best TES is currently 26.86 from last month's Golden Spin Of Zagreb (required: 29), and her FS best TES is 42.76 from last year's Tallinn Trophy (required: 49).

CaroLiza_fan

Harriet · Jan 5, 2020

There's time enough before Worlds for one or more Kazakh skaters to get their minimums; Aiza Imambek has a competition coming up where she would be eligible to qualify, IIRC.

ETA: CaroLiza_fan, snap! :laugh:

nussnacker · Jan 5, 2020

Also, who knows, maybe Elizabeth will be able to make full recovery by worlds herself.

Lunalovesskating · Jan 5, 2020

nussnacker said:
Also, who knows, maybe Elizabeth will be able to make full recovery by worlds herself.

I talked about the other two empty (so far) spots as seen above in my first post, I was not talking about Lil'Bet's

I am still optimistically hoping that Lil'Bet can recover in time for Worlds. Before Lil'Bets account was hacked she answered a fan that she does not now yet if she can go to 4CC and Worlds. So I am staying optimistic.

CaroLiza_fan · Jan 5, 2020

Harriet said:
There's time enough before Worlds for one or more Kazakh skaters to get their minimums; Aiza Imambek has a competition coming up where she would be eligible to qualify, IIRC.

ETA: CaroLiza_fan, snap!

Indeed!

By the way, I am never sure which version of Aiza's surname to use when referring to her - the Kazakh version (Imambek, as used on her social media profiles), or the Russian version (Mambekova, as used on her curent ISU Bio). So, I tend to avoid the issue by just using her first name.

However, like you, I thought it would be best to include a surname here, because she hadn't been mentioned in the thread yet. And it worked out perfectly because, between us, we have managed to cover all bases! :agree: :laugh:

CaroLiza_fan

Edwin · Jan 5, 2020

What are ISU’s rules in case none of KAZ qualifies?

They might find themselves in a knot, but there must be procedures in place like inviting the reserves?

Lunalovesskating · Jan 5, 2020

CaroLiza_fan said:
There are still plenty of Senior B's to go before Worlds that the other Kazakh skaters can compete in to try and get the minimums. For example, Aiza Mambekova is competing at the Toruń Cup next weekend.

So, no need to panic just yet.

Incidentally, Aiza's SP best TES is currently 26.86 from last month's Golden Spin Of Zagreb (required: 29), and her FS best TES is 42.76 from last year's Tallinn Trophy (required: 49).

CaroLiza_fan

I am just a little pessimistic at the moment. I watched Aiza's nationals performance from last week and with that skate she would not reach the TES minimum

DenissVFan · Jan 5, 2020

If nobody else gets the minimum TES, these spots will be forfeited. At least Kazakhstan managed to send 2 ladies to the Olympics. At the 2018 Worlds Loena Hendrickx, Deniss Vasiljevs, Misha Ge and Michal Brezina all won 2 spots for their countries, most of which went unused the following year (no second Belgian lady, no second Latvian or Czech man, no man from Uzbekistan at all).

gkelly · Jan 5, 2020

Every federation is entitled to one ladies' spot assuming they have a female skater of the right age who has achieved the required minimum tech scores.

So if a federation with more spots does not use (all) those spots, that does not open up any additional spots in the initial draw at Worlds.

What it does mean is that if a skater such as Tursynbaeva who was expected to make top 24 in the short program is unable to compete, that would open another spot for the skater of next best short program, whoever that turns out to be, to qualify for the free program.

Lunalovesskating · Jan 5, 2020

gkelly said:
Every federation is entitled to one ladies' spot assuming they have a female skater of the right age who has achieved the required minimum tech scores.

So if a federation with more spots does not use (all) those spots, that does not open up any additional spots in the initial draw at Worlds.

What it does mean is that if a skater such as Tursynbaeva who was expected to make top 24 in the short program is unable to compete, that would open another spot for the skater of next best short program, whoever that turns out to be, to qualify for the free program.

Thank you for the explanation

TontoK · Jan 5, 2020

gkelly said:
Every federation is entitled to one ladies' spot assuming they have a female skater of the right age who has achieved the required minimum tech scores.

So if a federation with more spots does not use (all) those spots, that does not open up any additional spots in the initial draw at Worlds.

What it does mean is that if a skater such as Tursynbaeva who was expected to make top 24 in the short program is unable to compete, that would open another spot for the skater of next best short program, whoever that turns out to be, to qualify for the free program.

Thank you for clearing this up. It seems these discussions pop up every so often, and I'm surprised that people don't understand.

In this instance, at last year's WC, Kazakhstan earned invitations for three ladies, provided they meet the technical minimums and are in all other respects qualified.

Those invitations aren't commodities to be loaned out, swapped with another federation, or sold on the black market.

The lack of Kazakh skaters that meet the qualification standards is not a unique event. As others have mentioned, it happens all the time with different federations and different disciplines.

Depending on the qualifications and health of Kazakh ladies, the federation may send three, two, one... or none. The ability of the Kazakh federation to completely fill their invites (or "slots") has no bearing at all on other federations in terms of the number of participants they can send.

gkelly · Jan 5, 2020

It is different for Olympics where the total number of spaces in the short program is limited to 30, so if federations who have qualified Olympic spots don't use them, another federation can take the spot instead.

Something similar applies for some other competitions such as YOG and total spots on the JGP, though I haven't memorized those rules.

But for ISU championships (Worlds, Junior Worlds, Europeans, Four Continents), every federation is allowed 1 entry in each discipline just by virtue of being a member of the ISU. Then they still need to have skater who is age eligible and has met the TES minimums to be able to fill the slot they're entitled to.

ice coverage · Jan 5, 2020

gkelly said:
... But for ISU championships (Worlds, Junior Worlds, Europeans, Four Continents), every federation is allowed 1 entry in each discipline just by virtue of being a member of the ISU. Then they still need to have skater who is age eligible and has met the TES minimums to be able to fill the slot they're entitled to.

For federations under the Four Continents umbrella, each federation is allowed to send three entries per discipline to Four Continents.

Mentioning in case some do not already know that Four Continents is an anomaly among ISU championships.

(I feel sure that you already know, gkelly.)

gkelly · Jan 5, 2020

Yes, I knew, but I forgot. Thanks for pointing that out, ice coverage.

Scott512 · Jan 5, 2020

crazydreamer said:
They should go to whichever country/countries came closest to qualifying for extra spots last year. Neither Kazakhstan nor the ISU should be "giving spots away" because that seems like a recipe for corruption and abuse.

The spots should go to Russia obviously. The ISU has a quandary on their hands having countries with spots they cannot deliver on. It's amazing how these incredible figure skaters do everything to lift the sport up and move it forward and the ISU does everything go hold it down. And yes country should not be allowed to give a spot of theirs to another country. That would look a little fishy. Lilbet may not even be able to skate at Worlds this year so what do they do with those three spots? The answer is more obvious than we think.

Noxchild · Jan 5, 2020

The spots should obviously go to Russia? And how would that be worked out? I can imagine a few other skating feds that would be provoked at the idea...

KatGrace1925 · Jan 6, 2020

Scott512 said:
The spots should go to Russia obviously. The ISU has a quandary on their hands having countries with spots they cannot deliver on. It's amazing how these incredible figure skaters do everything to lift the sport up and move it forward and the ISU does everything go hold it down. And yes country should not be allowed to give a spot of theirs to another country. That would look a little fishy. Lilbet may not even be able to skate at Worlds this year so what do they do with those three spots? The answer is more obvious than we think.

No they shouldn't go to Russia, Russia already has the maximum 3 spots. No one deserves more just because the depth in their country has gone up.

What will happen to the three World spots Kazakhstan has in ladies?

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