Minimum TES raised for Ladies for 2020 Worlds | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Minimum TES raised for Ladies for 2020 Worlds

Alegria

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Country
Ukraine
looks like they're trying to get it down from 40 to 36 competitors (2 ice resurfacing during the competition), which is silly because even if they get 37 they still need that extra group. I hope those ladies come back and get the new mins as a big FU to the ISU, and I'll be at worlds cheering extra loud for them.

It's not like it's impossible to those girls to get minimum TES. And even more girls can get them. So it's totally unreasonable.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Will the results of the Europeans and 4CC qualify? If yes, then I don't understand the outcry. Those 2 competitions are close to WC, they are supposedly judged to the highest standards possible. We all discussed many times how questionable judging during B events can be. Also, I understand that after the first half of the season almost all slots are already filled. So far only 3-4 skaters are affected. Who prevents them from skating to the qualifying requirement during the Europeans and 4CC? These are important events, the skaters are supposed to be in their best shape by then.

I am sure that some of the affected skaters will make it. Then we are talking about one or two skaters who would qualify under previous rules and could not do it now. It's not about the timing of the announcements. It's about the fact that those one or two skaters cannot qualify. Why is the outcry?

If the Europeans and 4CC are after the cutoff date, then what I wrote was irrelevant and, yes, it was a stupid thing to do.

It's a matter of fairness. Why even announce the qualifying scores at all if they are subject to change midseason? And what prevents the ISU from changing them after Euros/4CC? If anything, the ISU should announce higher minimums at the start of the season and lower them if needed because that would at least prevent athletes scrambling to get higher scores at the last minute when they thought they already have qualified.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I don't necessarily have an opinion on the appropriate technical minimums. I trust the ISU to set them.

I have a very strong opinion on re-establishing them mid-season. That smacks of an arbitrary and unnecessary decision.
 

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
I am a great proponent of the TES system in itself. After all, we don't wish skaters only capable of doing single jumps at Worlds (although, to be honest, I quite enjoyed watching a Brazilian guy who did just that at the Universiade last year. His skate was so joyful).

And, the earlier system in place to prevent to big numbers at the SP, with qualifying rounds was both costly and boring. But, changing the minimums this late in the season really is unfair. I suppose I'm repeating others here, but I still wish to express my opinion. I could understand the lowering of the TES in case the numbers of competitors were turning out to be really low (that would have been nice in the pairs last year for example), but I would rather see the ISU really turning the numbers up for next season rather than such a late change.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
It's a matter of fairness. Why even announce the qualifying scores at all if they are subject to change midseason? And what prevents the ISU from changing them after Euros/4CC? If anything, the ISU should announce higher minimums at the start of the season and lower them if needed because that would at least prevent athletes scrambling to get higher scores at the last minute when they thought they already have qualified.

Is it the first time in FS history? If the skaters who would qualify with previous minimum never realized that it could be increased, yes, it's a bit unfair. But Dasa GRM still has a chance to go to the worlds if she is top 24 in Europe with the required new TES score. Liza and Zhenya do not have such a chance.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Is it the first time in FS history? If the skaters who would qualify with previous minimum never realized that it could be increased, yes, it's a bit unfair. But Dasa GRM still has a chance to go to the worlds if she is top 24 in Europe with the required new TES score. Liza and Zhenya do not have such a chance.

This doesn't have anything to do with Liza and Zhenya, as no change in minimum score would affect them.

Even if skaters know it can be increased, it still isn't fair to change midseason. Again, it's about planning your season and working with your federation to get the proper assignments needed to earn a score. Now, between their Nationals and Worlds, some of these skaters need to find another event and arrange travel and lodging for them and their coach, maybe get visas, possibly bump a countrywoman off her assignment, etc. Making this change so late in the season can really throw a wrench into a skater's plans.
 

StitchMonkey

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
I feel like they should at least grandfather in the skaters who'd met the old requirements but now don't meet the new ones. Seems a bit unfair that they've essentially been kicked out.

An excellent, elegant, fair, reasonably and easily accomplished compromise!

Personally I hope the judges get happily inebriated at 4CC and Euros and give out minimum TES like candy... trips to world all around!
 

eaglehelang

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Will the results of the Europeans and 4CC qualify? If yes, then I don't understand the outcry. Those 2 competitions are close to WC, they are supposedly judged to the highest standards possible. We all discussed many times how questionable judging during B events can be. Also, I understand that after the first half of the season almost all slots are already filled. So far only 3-4 skaters are affected. Who prevents them from skating to the qualifying requirement during the Europeans and 4CC? These are important events, the skaters are supposed to be in their best shape by then.

I am sure that some of the affected skaters will make it. Then we are talking about one or two skaters who would qualify under previous rules and could not do it now. It's not about the timing of the announcements. It's about the fact that those one or two skaters cannot qualify. Why is the outcry?

If the Europeans and 4CC are after the cutoff date, then what I wrote was irrelevant and, yes, it was a stupid thing to do.

Someone already posted a list. There are 12 skaters effected.

The outcry is because ISU suddenly change the rules this late in the season. Which is utterly unprofessional.
And yes, it will be an outcry too if other sports world body does this(changing rules at late notice). They wouldnt be able to get away with it like ISU is.
 

DenissVFan

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
It can be compared to a teacher changing the pass grade towards the end of a semester because too many students have passed the tests.
 

pesto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
They could change the qualification criteria if it's such a problem to have more skaters - TES minimum AND a 36 skater entry cut-off, ranked by season's best, for example.

But, any change should occur between seasons. A season should run by the same rules throughout, so the skaters know what they are aiming for, and can plan accordingly.
 

Coryocris

Praise our Little Bear
On the Ice
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Country
Germany
What are you talking about? For example, for ladies:

WC-12 15/25
WC-13 26/46
WC-15 27/47

In 2013 they DECREASED the TES, not increased. Ladies SP 26.00 (changed from 28.00) points FS (changed from 48.00) 46.00 points. In 2015, the criteria was established in July of the previous year, Communication No. 1876. For 2012 I can't find the original communications but the website points to an article posted in June 2011, same case as 2015. The only case in which they changed the TES in the middle of the season was in favour of skaters. It's the first time that this has happened to work against skaters, not in favour.
 

eaglehelang

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Is it the first time in FS history? If the skaters who would qualify with previous minimum never realized that it could be increased, yes, it's a bit unfair. But Dasa GRM still has a chance to go to the worlds if she is top 24 in Europe with the required new TES score. Liza and Zhenya do not have such a chance.

Dasa & some of the other ladies qualified under the old rules. Now it's a IF, with rule changes in January, 2 short months before WC.
Take note that for smaller federations, qualification to WC is one of criteria for funding. Dont qualify for Worlds, lose funding.

There are also cost considerations for additional competitions that to be entered & a host of other stuff.

If the tables are turned & its a Russian athlete who's effected, I'm pretty sure Russia will complain, VERY loudly(which is what normally happens). If the sports association doesnt want to, the Russian government will pressure them to.
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
2

100+ Trusova
90+ Shcherbakova
80+ Kostornaia, Tuktamysheva (Valieva, Liu)
https://skatingscores.com/preview/ladies/long/

Oops, too high barrier, apparently. So, let say 70+.

When you have the bottom line ~50% of top it may be like multi-league competition.

The most interesting table however is the ladies mean PCS. According to this table Sasha Trusova is at the 10th place. And her team does no attempt to improve? She needs at least 5 PCS points ...
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
What the heck? Is this even allowed? I mean obviously, it seems it is, but what the heck, ISU?

This is so backhanded! Those poor skaters who will miss out on going to World's after all their hard work!

Can they appeal against it at the Court of Arbitration for sports?
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
What the heck? Is this even allowed? I mean obviously, it seems it is, but what the heck, ISU?

This is so backhanded! Those poor skaters who will miss out on going to World's after all their hard work!

Can they appeal against it at the Court of Arbitration for sports?

They may appeal and they should. You cannot change rules too close to any ranked competition.
But ISU may regulate minimal scores for the next year Worlds.
 

Coryocris

Praise our Little Bear
On the Ice
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Country
Germany
Another (semi?)victim of this nonsense: Guzide Irmak Bayir from Turkey. She had the TES for the FS (49.52) but not for the SP (28.87). She could realistically earn the SP mark at Euros (does anybody know why she is not going?). May she go to another competition and be Turkey's only entry.
 

DenissVFan

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Another (semi?)victim of this nonsense: Guzide Irmak Bayir from Turkey. She had the TES for the FS (49.52) but not for the SP (28.87). She could realistically earn the SP mark at Euros (does anybody know why she is not going?). May she go to another competition and be Turkey's only entry.

Keeping my fingers crossed for Guzide too. And for Andrea Montesinos Cantu. The more, the merrier, in my book.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
This doesn't have anything to do with Liza and Zhenya, as no change in minimum score would affect them.

Even if skaters know it can be increased, it still isn't fair to change midseason. Again, it's about planning your season and working with your federation to get the proper assignments needed to earn a score. Now, between their Nationals and Worlds, some of these skaters need to find another event and arrange travel and lodging for them and their coach, maybe get visas, possibly bump a countrywoman off her assignment, etc. Making this change so late in the season can really throw a wrench into a skater's plans.

Many people here keep saying that. There are 3-4 skaters affected. Aren't they supposed to compete at the Europeans or 4CC? If yes, what another event, travel, lodging, visas, etc. are you talking about? These are no less important events to them than the worlds so that they should be in their top shape there. If they cannot get the minimum, then, well.

Liza and Zhenya are affected by the 3 only rule. Dasa GRM is affected by the raise of the TES minimum which is a legitimate move by ISU. Putting legitimacy and rules aside we are in the morality and fairness realm. In this realm I think that what happens with Zhenya and Liza is less fair than what happens with Dasa.
 
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