Can you identify the mistake? I was under the impression something else happened that caused the element to initially receive no BV.
2020 Europeans: Free Dance Recap
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Can you identify the mistake? I was under the impression something else happened that caused the element to initially receive no BV.
It was clearly a pro-zhulin judging panel, but I have mixed feelings on the results. I definitely prefer P/C and I like their current programs more than I ever have before. If it wasn't for the mistake they would have deservedly won and hopefully it won't happen again. All I know is that I've never rooted for them to win worlds more.
Despite what some people have said, I don't see a Gadbois sweep at worlds happening even if its in Montreal. But I don't think I can see S/K winning either.
Despite what some people have said, I don't see a Gadbois sweep at worlds happening even if its in Montreal. But I don't think I can see S/K winning either.
I don't think anyone felt played. It was clear from P/C faces they knew it was coming and not because of judges. They are still a better team of all out there but I hope they are getting the message that it won't be a cakewalk. They can't be complacent and start taking things for granted. This season, on a good day for all teams, I would rank both Chokes and SinKats above P/C. Both are coming guns blazing and I won't be shocked if one or the other unseat them at Worlds. Though, I still think it's P/C to lose.
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Yeah, their own faces at the end of the programme said it all, and no judges score can't change their selfawarness that was not the best skate. Now, if you don't skate your best, it's pretty possible someone can beat you. Simple as that.
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NO team was perfect today. None.
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Plenty of people will have plenty to say about P/C and S/K, so I want to focus on the rest of the competitors!
Firstly, I'm sad that Charlene and Marco didn't manage to grab the bronze :sad4: It can't have been easy having to skate around waiting and waiting, with the crowd getting louder. Their composure and how well they skated was amazing, after that. I felt they were slightly low-balled in the score but, that said, Alexandra and Ivan deserved the bronze and congratulations to them! With everything else going on, their medal gets slightly overshadowed, but they skated really well and earned a well-deserved PB.
As for the rest of the competition, my highlights were:
Firstly, I'm sad that Charlene and Marco didn't manage to grab the bronze :sad4: It can't have been easy having to skate around waiting and waiting, with the crowd getting louder. Their composure and how well they skated was amazing, after that. I felt they were slightly low-balled in the score but, that said, Alexandra and Ivan deserved the bronze and congratulations to them! With everything else going on, their medal gets slightly overshadowed, but they skated really well and earned a well-deserved PB.
As for the rest of the competition, my highlights were:
- Tiffani and Jonathan's free dance, they really sold it here and were solid on their elements. I've enjoyed this program all season (although I know others have not) and I'm glad they got a return trip to Europeans to perform it.
- Alexandra and Maxim's program isn't my cup of tea, but they sold it well and clearly enjoy skating it, their acrobatics are certainly impressive!
- Katharina and Tim made big strides technically and earned a new PB as a reward.
- Adelina and Louis also gained a new PB for their Carmen, which despite it being a warhorse, I enjoyed how in time they were with the music, especially in the fast, staccato section which they opened with.
- Maria and Georgy made their Europeans debut with their fantastic free dance, I can't wait to see what they come up with next season.
- The battle of the two Spanish team was exciting, two very different free dances, I wonder which team will be sent to Worlds?
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Outside of the gold medal drama, my highlight was Fear/Gibson moving up to fifth place overall!! They've had such a stellar season, bronze at SC and now fifth at euros!! I reaaaaaally want to see them keep improving and excited for Worlds!
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The gap between S/K and P/C was made mainly by judge no.5 Alla SHEKHOVTSOVA RUS and judge no.6 Anastassiya MAKAROVA UKR, who gave to S/K by 8.28 points (Shekhovtsova) and 6.07 points (Makarova) more in FD than to P/C.
https://skatingscores.com/1920/ec/dance/long/tss/
https://skatingscores.com/1920/ec/dance/long/tss/
Let’s not all pretend that it mattered who skated better or performed better in this competition. Ice dance has always been political and this one today showed that in full force. However, I’m not sure anyone can ignore the fact that the Russian and Ukrainian judge collectively put PC in third, doled out 10’s like candy to SK, and gave SK 15 (YES FIFTEEN) more points over PC. I mean, no amount of underperforming could justify that big of a gap. With two judges, this overscoring of this proportion MATTERS. And I don’t know since when SK became the embodiment of perfect ice dancing. 
Let’s see who politicks better and has a more favorable panel at Worlds.
Let’s see who politicks better and has a more favorable panel at Worlds.Is everyone forgetting all the propping up, and turning the blind eye to the faults, P/C received when the judges tried to make the V/M's equal? Where was the outrage then?
Politiking has ALWAYS been involved. France politics just as hard as Russia does (every country does don't kid yourself) so all this crying now when people didn't then is pretty hypocritical. Politiking for the gold didn't suddenly just return just because it involves Russia.
Politiking has ALWAYS been involved. France politics just as hard as Russia does (every country does don't kid yourself) so all this crying now when people didn't then is pretty hypocritical. Politiking for the gold didn't suddenly just return just because it involves Russia.
Yeah, lets all act like S/K just walked into this competition from the street and suddenly getting high scores. Last I checked the winning team came 2nd at the last World championship, and 1/2 of the winning team was Olympic silver medalist. It's a strong team (not the most consistent) but continuously improving. Is there politics in this sport, of course. And always will be, just look at that score sheet, it's not just two judges playing games there.
But even V/M never had it easy, they had to fight for it.
But even V/M never had it easy, they had to fight for it.
The idea that the French should just automatically win everything all the day is ridiculous. They are not the best in everything and other teams have been getting better. The French have won many times with massive overscoring so let's not lose our minds because they actually were judged fairly this time......
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Papadakis and Cizeron were the most tentative I'd ever seen them in the free dance. They're not used to competing without a cushion and it showed. Gabi's error going into the one-foot step sequence was very noticeable, so in the moment, I was not surprised it was invalidated. Ultimately getting the downgrade instead was a gift. There's more than one way to look at those scores. That also wasn't the only error they made.
I don't feel much outrage at the result. I can't just argue that P/C should win because they always win. And to me, this is the problem of ice dance. If scoring can't reflect that sometimes the class of the field make costly mistakes on the day, then we have a defective scoring system based only on reputation.
Also, if you look at the detailed protocols, it's clear that this was a battle between Gadbois and Zhulin judges, and I say there was...strategic judging happening from both camps in terms of where P/C and S/K were ranked. At Worlds P/C will have their cushion back, for what it's worth.
I don't feel much outrage at the result. I can't just argue that P/C should win because they always win. And to me, this is the problem of ice dance. If scoring can't reflect that sometimes the class of the field make costly mistakes on the day, then we have a defective scoring system based only on reputation.
Also, if you look at the detailed protocols, it's clear that this was a battle between Gadbois and Zhulin judges, and I say there was...strategic judging happening from both camps in terms of where P/C and S/K were ranked. At Worlds P/C will have their cushion back, for what it's worth.
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A couple of days ago we were talking about how exited we were about European championship, well that ice dance final was really exciting, I loved it.
I think that P&C are the best icedance team out there and they know it and that's the reason why they decided to take risks this season, they (and everybody) thought that they still had margin for some experimentation, so here we have a fun RD and an avant-garde FD. Well, margins change, mostly because the rest of the competitors do not treat them like "untouchable gods" as their fans do, they want the gold too and they improve.
I think that, today, S&K won fair and straight. I don't think that it will happen again at worlds, but it happened today. And I think too that the only reason why the panel reviewed the invalid element was because they were P&C and that's ok with me, everybody wants a solid decisión when the gold is involved.
As for the spanish teams, I loved both of them!! Spanish FED must be proud and terrified at the same time. Who are they going to send? No matter what they do, there will be complains, from the fans and from canadian/russian coaches… If I were the FED, I would try to analyse the panel at worlds, is it gonna be pro gadboid or pro zhulin? We need that second spot, that's the most important thing right now...
I think that P&C are the best icedance team out there and they know it and that's the reason why they decided to take risks this season, they (and everybody) thought that they still had margin for some experimentation, so here we have a fun RD and an avant-garde FD. Well, margins change, mostly because the rest of the competitors do not treat them like "untouchable gods" as their fans do, they want the gold too and they improve.
I think that, today, S&K won fair and straight. I don't think that it will happen again at worlds, but it happened today. And I think too that the only reason why the panel reviewed the invalid element was because they were P&C and that's ok with me, everybody wants a solid decisión when the gold is involved.
As for the spanish teams, I loved both of them!! Spanish FED must be proud and terrified at the same time. Who are they going to send? No matter what they do, there will be complains, from the fans and from canadian/russian coaches… If I were the FED, I would try to analyse the panel at worlds, is it gonna be pro gadboid or pro zhulin? We need that second spot, that's the most important thing right now...
Can you point it out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f5_aI_k3go&
The TES box shows Pst initially (invalid element for the FD) and it is later changed to OFSt, adding 8.31 to their TES. I see Gabby's mistake at the end of the step sequence, for which she got level 2.
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I don't study protocols super carefully, but according to TSL the French judge was blatant in her pro-P/C anti-S/K shenanigans in the RD so I'm really not sure why people act like only the Russians politick or push their own agenda. The same goes for the North American teams when they're into the mix. It's a political battle (and thus I don't take ice dance that seriously), but not one that's only fishy somehow when a Russian team is on top. Let's not forget P/C got a world record recently when Gabi went down on her knee during an element so it's not like they haven't been gifted by the judges.
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As someone who’s never understood the ott scores of the French and doesn’t care for the Russian team I’m just over here with a big bag of popcorn enjoying the drama 
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I can't do timestamps for you because I don't have regional access but I think we're referring to the same thing (the twizzle exit of the OFst). In realtime, there seemed to be some debate about whether it was actually an OFSt since Gabi stumbled coming out of the twizzle and went on two-feet. I suspect that's where the original Pst label came from.
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