2020 Europeans: Free Dance Recap | Page 4 | Golden Skate

2020 Europeans: Free Dance Recap

Andrea82

Medalist
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
The French judge was left off the FD but both Shekhovtseva and Makarova were on both panels, and the French judge was replaced by an Estonian judge

It is not stritcly a direct "France to Estonia" switch. In between the two segments in ISU Championships, 4 new judges join the panel. A draw decide which 4 judges are replaced. And here it was France, Germany, Switzerland and Lithuania.
The new entries in the FD panel were Hungary, Estonia, Spain and Great Britain.

In the RD, French and German judges went for P/C, while Swiss and Lithuanian judges had S/K first. Overall, the sum of the 4 replaced judges was in P/C's favour because of the huge lead given by French judge.

Out of the new 4, it is the British judge who went in S/K's favour. Estonian judge basically tied them (same PCS, one 1 more GOE to P/C). Hungarian and Spanish judges favored P/C.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
The idea that the French should just automatically win everything all the day is ridiculous. They are not the best in everything and other teams have been getting better. The French have won many times with massive overscoring so let's not lose our minds because they actually were judged fairly this time......

In arguments like this "they were actually judged fairly" ALWAYS BUT ALWAYS REALLY MEANS, "the judging went the way I wanted."
 

Anni234

Ina Bauer
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Country
Estonia
It is not stritcly a direct "France to Estonia" switch. In between the two segments in ISU Championships, 4 new judges join the panel. A draw decide which 4 judges are replaced. And here it was France, Germany, Switzerland and Lithuania.
The new entries in the FD panel were Hungary, Estonia, Spain and Great Britain.

In the RD, French and German judges went for P/C, while Swiss and Lithuanian judges had S/K first. Overall, the sum of the 4 replaced judges was in P/C's favour because of the huge lead given by French judge.

Out of the new 4, it is the British judge who went in S/K's favour. Estonian judge basically tied them (same PCS, one 1 more GOE to P/C). Hungarian and Spanish judges favored P/C.

Thanks for clarifying! I also quite dislike the hidden notion in chuckm's initial post that replacing the French judge with an Estonian one automatically means that the panel got more pro-russian. Of course I apologise if that wasn't what chuckm meant. But I think it is unfair to assume that any old Soviet block countries are biased towards russians, cause in reality that is hardly the case.

I like both P/C and S/K, but I cannot deny I was happy to see someone new win for a change. Not gonna get into the technical dispute, cause my knowledge of ice dance specifics is very limited.
 

FlyingFeather

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
As someone who’s never understood the ott scores of the French and doesn’t care for the Russian team I’m just over here with a big bag of popcorn enjoying the drama 😂🍿

I know. Since we always complain about boring, set-in-stone rankings in ice dance, why not enjoy a little bit of upheaval? I'm sure P/C will get the gold at Worlds, and, judging by their interview, that is what they really want.
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
I think everyone is aware of what happened here

Some are repressing it though

Ugh, Figure skating, I guess...
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
I know. Since we always complain about boring, set-in-stone rankings in ice dance, why not enjoy a little bit of upheaval? I'm sure P/C will get the gold at Worlds, and, judging by their interview, that is what they really want.

Because there are those of us who don't want to go back to the 2002 and before era when reputation scoring, judging scandals, deal making, politics, ordinal scoring was the norm. You think rankings are set in stone now? Try watching entire seasons where rankings barely change at all, where a P/C would have had to "wait their turn" to even be in the final flight of events for years. You think you're bored now? Say nothing and hope you enjoy the coma that ID will be. Oh, and the endless argument that "ice dance isn't really a sport" -- because you'll be hearing plenty of it again.
 

rosy14

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
S/K deserved it. P/C were sloppy here. Glad to see them humbled a little. Though judging by gabi "accidently" stepping onto first place on the podium maybe not humbled enough.

Agree 100%. It’s one of their problems, humility.
 

Eleanor

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
LOL...after 5 years of Didier stuffing us with P/C, a change in stuffing is welcome !

Actually, the change in stuffing I'd enjoy is less Didier in the discussion. The guy may be an annoying moron but he is certainly not the only one to act behind the scene and I will add, certainly not the most influential of all.
PS: French stuffing is ALWAYS excellent
 

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
I am a big fan of Gabrielle and Guillaume because they are so good in my view, and - to be straightforward here - also a big fan of Stepanova and Bukin. I really liked last year's Euros result and thought it was fair. But now I am just reading about politics and such and that's what causes the outcome? The pair I don't like that much gets to be first, all because of judging agreements? I watched the programmes, would probably have G/G first myself being a fan, but wasn't really thinking about the composition of the judging panel at all (I never do). And was happy for the pair that won (even if I wouldn't have them there because I prefer S/B and even G/F). So, it's not the skating (as I always wish is the thing) but the politics? Thank you everybody for eliminating my naive thoughts that Stepanova/Bukin even had a chance (I really love them). Or that S/K won fairly (which I thought, being such a believer in the judges). If it's because they are favoured (after G/G were) thanks to a judging panel...well. Sorry for all fans of whomever. I wanted to believe everything was fair, and that P/C (or G/G) fairly lost this time. Which is totally acceptable. It's sport, no? Thank you guys for turning my naivity into cynicism.
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
I am a big fan of Gabrielle and Guillaume because they are so good in my view, and - to be straightforward here - also a big fan of Stepanova and Bukin. I really liked last year's Euros result and thought it was fair. But now I am just reading about politics and such and that's what causes the outcome? The pair I don't like that much gets to be first, all because of judging agreements? I watched the programmes, would probably have G/G first myself being a fan, but wasn't really thinking about the composition of the judging panel at all (I never do). And was happy for the pair that won (even if I wouldn't have them there because I prefer S/B and even G/F). So, it's not the skating (as I always wish is the thing) but the politics? Thank you everybody for eliminating my naive thoughts that Stepanova/Bukin even had a chance (I really love them). Or that S/K won fairly (which I thought, being such a believer in the judges). If it's because they are favoured (after G/G were) thanks to a judging panel...well. Sorry for all fans of whomever. I wanted to believe everything was fair, and that P/C (or G/G) fairly lost this time. Which is totally acceptable. It's sport, no? Thank you guys for turning my naivity into cynicism.

:agree: I agree with this post all of it.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
I’m here for the drama, I didn’t watch Ice Dance this weekend at Euros because the politicking of ice dance isn’t for me. I usually just watch stand out performances after the competition is over but this is interesting how the judging panel was and who score who what. We can clearly see the fixed judging in broad daylight and that is fascinating.
 

yuna13

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Rewatching the competition knowing the outcome and Gabriella struggle is hard. If you don't know P/C gave an interveiw after the competition where Gabriella said she is going through a difficult time with anxiety and what looks like depression. They were debatting going to EC because of Gabriella mental state. Now about the podium "incident" her head is elsewhere right now she's just forgot.
 

NaVi

Medalist
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Any country with a top 12 ice dance team at Worlds or a Junior medalist ice dance team should be left off any ice dance judging panel the following year at the GPF, Euros/4CC, and Worlds.
The number of ice dance judges should be expanded to 15 at the GPF, Euros/4CC, and Worlds.
There should be two tech panels and when they disagree the entire panel should make a decision at the GPF, Euros/4CC, adn Worlds.

There's too many good teams and you're splitting hairs in ways that's not obvious to the audience. If the ISU doesn't make changes like these they're just asking periodic judging controversies. BTH, I almost hope one happens because nothing will change until it does.

I didn't watch and have no opinion about the event. I did watch the GPF and I remember none of it though my general impression was that the Russian teams were stiffed a bit. It's important to note that ice dance is the 2nd most prominent discipline media wise in Russia and it's likely the state broadcaster and not the federation making that editorial decision. This is going to affect how much they're going to go to bat for their teams in order to get the best show on TV. I wish it wasn't because I don't want whatever ice dance beefs they have spilling over to other disciplines.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I am going to give Gabi the benefit of the doubt about the step to the gold medal position on the podium. It was probably or hopefully just an error because she is used to being first always. It is just rather unfortunate because it was so close and they have such strong fans that this may be seen as not a joke or an accident but unless someone has evidence she should be given the benefit of the doubt. If this was a joke it was not appropriate; very bad timing.
 

rosy14

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Non
Is everyone forgetting all the propping up, and turning the blind eye to the faults, P/C received when the judges tried to make the V/M's equal? Where was the outrage then?

Politiking has ALWAYS been involved. France politics just as hard as Russia does (every country does don't kid yourself) so all this crying now when people didn't then is pretty hypocritical. Politiking for the gold didn't suddenly just return just because it involves Russia.

Alleluja ! Very well said, sir/madam.
 
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