French Fed. imploding: where will Papadakis/Cizeron finish at worlds? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

French Fed. imploding: where will Papadakis/Cizeron finish at worlds?

dancelion21

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
If P/C perform at their best, they are unbeatable. Before Euros, they were unbeatable regardless of how they performed, but that's changed now. If they make mistakes, as Euros has shown, there are teams behind them, C/B and S/K, who are ready to capitalize.
The politics are still on their side at Worlds this year despite French fed being an absolute mess. They can rely on the support from Gadbois, and Zhulin's power will be much diminished on North American soil.
 

dancelion21

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Nikita is yet to have his 2019/2020 twizzle flop so... :coffee:

I feel like GPF was their flop of the season, so even though it wasn't a twizzle flop, I don't think we will see another flop from S/K this season.

They might lose to S/K but they will never lose to G/P and them losing to C/B is highly unlikely.

Losing to G/P will never happen, at least not this season. I'm talking about podium in general, where I think G/P could play spoiler for the bronze since Worlds is in Canada. I think they are more likely to know S/K off the podium than C/B since S/K have a weaker free dance while G/P have scored relatively well on theirs. I also agree that P/C are more likely to lose to S/K, mostly because Gadbois will be pushing for P/C and C/B, but pushing in a way so that P/C finish ahead. Since they're in the same coaching team, I feel like it's unlikely that C/B place ahead of P/C overall unless something drastic happens.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I've been mulling this question over since the Four Continents ice dance event. With the French Federation imploding, and thus presumably their political power ebbing for the moment, and P/C already losing Europeans to Sinitsina/Katsalapov, P/C are more vulnerable than they've ever been since they won their first world championship. And yes, I think that may include when they were losing to Virtue and Moir.

The Russians have lined up behind S/K and pushed them to a win at Europeans, in spite of one of the most bland and dull free dances of the season. The Americans have finally lined up behind one team: Chock and Bates, who have been on the rise all season. I think P/C, whose material has not been universally beloved this season, and they've been making visible errors, are vulnerable to these two teams at least. I think it's actually very possible they may finish third at worlds, something I would have thought inconceivable at the beginning of the season. And I think there's an outside chance they finish off the podium, as Skate Canada is lobbying for Gilles/Poirier, and worlds is in Canada.

On the other hand, the judges love P/C's skating. Their quality is undeniable. I personally think their free dance is beautiful and very moving. It remains to be seen how much pull the various ice dance schools have: Gadbois (on home turf in Montreal) vs. Zhulin. For the first time in years, I think all three podium places are up for grabs and the landscape is murky.

I think the most likely outcome is P/C, S/K and C/B on the podium in some order, though I confess in my fantasies Piper and Paul (my personal favourites, who I think have the best pair of programs of the season) sneak through to snatch a medal.

What does everyone else think? Are there others who can play spoiler? It's entirely possible Hubbell and Donohue will be in the top three after the rhythm dance, if season's results count for anything. Will they be a factor?

I appreciate your concerns/position but I don't think they will be off the podium and probably will win gold. First, SK are prone to errors. Second PC lost euros because they made uncharacteristic errors. third, even though there are reasons that the judges could toss PC out of at least gold they won't. They could have done it if they wanted. That fs in the past would be very hit or miss but for they are reigning world champions and olypic silver medallists with tonnes of cachet. Fourth they are a very good team and there is a good chance the Americans and Russians will just fight among themselves for supremacy and the judges still don't give GP the huge marks especially in the sd.
 

Momtoiceprincess

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Ice dance is all about the long game... Over the next couple of seasons I can see S/K making small gains & come Olympics I can see P/C being overhauled.
I don't think S/K will be too worried about beating them at worlds they'll be thinking ahead to the Olympics & pre Olympic year. What happens this year isn't too important in the grand scheme of things.
 

lusterfan

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Side question to the OP.

Do you think rusfed is pushing S/K?
And if so: why?

Yes, and because why wouldn't they? Every country's fed essentially will want to push its own skaters. The US is pushing C/B right now, Canada is pushing P/G, and Russia is pushing S/K. Of course they want their own skaters to win, so they will push their skaters. Inflate their scores in domestic meets, build up reputation for them, maybe overscore them on home ice. Not that it's a hugely prevalent thing, but especially in ice dance there's political factoring in the placements.
 

labgoat

I have no words
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
In my fantasy world Hawayek and Baker win Worlds. That would salvage this season nicely.

Weird things do happen in skating sometimes such as Paul Wylie silver in 1992, 2006 Olympic ice dance OD with its many mishaps - who picked Grushina & Goncharov for bronze?
 

McBibus

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Yes, and because why wouldn't they? Every country's fed essentially will want to push its own skaters. The US is pushing C/B right now, Canada is pushing P/G, and Russia is pushing S/K. Of course they want their own skaters to win, so they will push their skaters. Inflate their scores in domestic meets, build up reputation for them, maybe overscore them on home ice. Not that it's a hugely prevalent thing, but especially in ice dance there's political factoring in the placements.

My bad.
Question was more "Why push just a couple when you have two possible medals contenders?"
Applies to US too
 

MCsAngel2

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 10, 2019
My bad.
Question was more "Why push just a couple when you have two possible medals contenders?"
Applies to US too

Yeah, this. It's killing me in this thread that no one thinks Stepanova/Bukin have anything to offer for Worlds this year. I think they're much better than S/K.
 

theharleyquinn

Medalist
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Yeah, this. It's killing me in this thread that no one thinks Stepanova/Bukin have anything to offer for Worlds this year. I think they're much better than S/K.

S/B are kind of like the C/B to S/K's H/D. They have excellent performance quality and the better programs, but as an ice dance pair they are not the most superb skaters. S/K and H/D have a lot of presence, power, speed, and high-class skating skills. It's much more noticeable in person than it is on screen.
 

McBibus

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Yeah, this. It's killing me in this thread that no one thinks Stepanova/Bukin have anything to offer for Worlds this year. I think they're much better than S/K.

It won't change if they push S/B instead of S/K.
It's all but sport.
 

dancelion21

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
My bad.
Question was more "Why push just a couple when you have two possible medals contenders?"
Applies to US too

My general understanding is that there's only so much room on a podium and feds can only get so greedy. US fed and Rus fed each have two teams that are good enough for the podium, but getting both teams on the podium would be a herculean effort over the other fed politically. Also, by trying to back two teams equally, that means that they aren't as backed as a team that gets all the fed's attention. Who knows what political games go on in the back rooms, but it's harder to push two teams at once when another fed only needs to push one team.
 

rosy14

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
My general understanding is that there's only so much room on a podium and feds can only get so greedy. US fed and Rus fed each have two teams that are good enough for the podium, but getting both teams on the podium would be a herculean effort over the other fed politically. Also, by trying to back two teams equally, that means that they aren't as backed as a team that gets all the fed's attention. Who knows what political games go on in the back rooms, but it's harder to push two teams at once when another fed only needs to push one team.

That’s what happened in 2014-15 and 2015-16: RusFed didn’t push the new S/B and USFed was uncertain among the relatively old C/B, S/S, H/S. And FrenchFed was so able to push and impose P/C.
 

arewhyaen

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
We gotta think about the long game here. With worlds being in Montreal, I don't see P/C losing worlds this year. But what P/C have managed to do this season is show that they are vulnerable and that judges won't ALWAYS reward their unique brand of ice dance. On top of this, you have the mixed reaction to their free program and they could be very vulnerable next year and for the subsequent olympic year.

Two things will result- this lights a fire under P/C to not do more of the same or they will buckle under the pressure.
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
My dream is seeing Piper and Paul on the podium ahead of Chock and Bates, anything is possible in ice dance
 
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