Toe Scrunching in Skates | Golden Skate

Toe Scrunching in Skates

SmallAminal

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
My child is toe scrunching so bad that even though the skates are the right length (given children grow...), the foot impression looks like someone 3 sizes smaller is in them. Is this normal? Doesn't it have an impact on technique or do skaters really scrunch this much? No wonder why his feet hang way over the insole before complaining about needing new skates. The amount of scrunching he has to do to get to that impression is pretty exrreme. Says he's "always skated this way??? [emoji33]
Guess the other insoles didn't highlight the foot impression as much... IMG_20200217_140729.jpg
 

Elija

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Those look too big. When the foot is in the boot and pulled back once the laces are tightened, the toes won’t be as far forward as they are in the picture on the right.

How do you know he’s scrunching his toes? Does he say he does that? If so, again, skates are probably too big.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
OP: To be on the safe side, perhaps you should have a podiatrist screen your son for this potential problem:

https://www.healthychildren.org/English/healthy-living/sports/Pages/Figure-Skating.aspx

"Hammertoes. When the foot moves around too much inside the boot, skaters may naturally curl their toes to keep from slipping. Around 18% of figure skaters develop hammertoes, which can cause pain, swelling and a claw-like appearance of the toe. Prevention includes making sure boots are not too big or too wide."

<<Emphasis added.>>
 

hanyuufan5

✨**:。*
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
Nth-ing too big somewhere. They also look like they might be too narrow in the ball.

I scrunched like that in my ancient recreational Riedells. They were much too high in the toe box, waaaaay too narrow, and nowhere near stiff enough.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Is he really scrunching or does have have hammer toes?!

My parents thought I was when I was young and then we got a really good skate tech pro who identified that I had hammer toes.


Look into it. It can change his skating so much.
 

MCsAngel2

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 10, 2019
Looks like he's in boots that are too big to get the width he needs. Probably needs a smaller size but in a wider width.
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
There's actually 3 different toe "deformities": hammertoes, claw toes and mallet toes.

This site has the best diagrams of what they look like.
https://www.foot-pain-explored.com/mallet-toe.html

I tend to hammer-toe when I walk but my toes can straighten out (they do it on their own when I take the weight off my feet.) As I understand it, hammertoes only become a problem when the joints are permanently bent.
 

SmallAminal

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Is he really scrunching or does have have hammer toes?!
.

Child has seen podiatrists and normally wears orthotics in street shoes but not skates. There is an ever so slight mallet toe tendency (I have the same) which we were told is commonly due to calf tightness but no general hammertoe. We always ask him to straighten his toes out when trying skates or street shoes because he walks around with a *slight* curl to his toes. He appears to be scrunching with ability to relax into the position in the picture. Oddly, he really likes these boots comfort-wise and claims they fit better than semi-customs he's had in the past (despite an awful past experience with Edeas that lasted only 8 hours on the ice). His claim is that he's "always" scrunched when he skates so maybe this is a habit to undo? Maybe he is not recognizing it as a fit issue anymore if he's "always" done it? I can't imagine its good for your feet to do this or promotes proper skating technique. Or if he will always skate this way....is that ok?

FWIW he was fitted in these boots at the well-known local shop with coach present and agreeing it was all good. Of course they make mistakes but I am wondering if the habit needs fixing more than the boots.
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
FWIW he was fitted in these boots at the well-known local shop with coach present and agreeing it was all good. Of course they make mistakes but I am wondering if the habit needs fixing more than the boots.

The boots do seem too big. Either in length or width. Or both. He might be struggling to control his skate by clenching his toes. It might be a habit(I do it when I attempt to skate with my daughters) a foot issue, and also a fit issue. Did you check the insole while he was standing on it as well? Can you go back to the podiatrist with the skate to get the fit evaluated?

If it makes you feel any better, my DD was fitted by a very reputable fitter and checked by her coach but still ended up with so much trouble in her skates it set her back several months. The technical rep from the boot manufacturer ended up recommending both a half size down, and a narrower skate! The original fitter followed guidelines and experience but in my DD’s case, she needed a very close fit. She has her own foot issues, but we now know to make sure she has a very close fit in her skates. No growing room and toes basically brushing to front of the boot! It doesn’t always pay to size for growth in kids skates anyway, since they seem to grow in skills as quickly as their feet grow, or the boots are worn out anyway. Good luck!
 

SmallAminal

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Did you check the insole while he was standing on it as well?

Yes that is the second picture where you see the foot fairly close to the end of the insole (and heel is right up on the back edge, not sitting in the heel cup). The skate doesnt look too big in that picture of his foot flat on the insole but the foot impression would suggest otherwise. He showed me how his feet are when he skates and it closely aligns with the impression when he scrunches his toes.
He was briefly in the next size down but then started complaining about his toes getting squashed while losing his spins and jumps a bit. It all came back once we put the larger boot on and he said it was "more comfortable" because his toes weren't jammed.
 

Elija

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
You may have already seen this, but this is Edea's graphic as to whether the fit is right https://ice.edeaskates.com/en/tech-info/what-is-my-size/how-can-i-check-if-i-have-the-right-size/

Comparing to your picture, they look too large. I don't think you can go by where the toes are when standing on the insole out of the skate, as that is not how the foot sits when the skates are tied tight across the ankles (mine always feel too small until I lace them, then they're perfect).
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Yes that is the second picture where you see the foot fairly close to the end of the insole (and heel is right up on the back edge, not sitting in the heel cup). The skate doesnt look too big in that picture of his foot flat on the insole but the foot impression would suggest otherwise. He showed me how his feet are when he skates and it closely aligns with the impression when he scrunches his toes.
He was briefly in the next size down but then started complaining about his toes getting squashed while losing his spins and jumps a bit. It all came back once we put the larger boot on and he said it was "more comfortable" because his toes weren't jammed.

I see that now. Sorry. I was originally on a tablet and the ads cut into posts and cause weird refreshes.

So, I bet he felt better in the larger boot because it was wider at the same time. The same sort of skills issues happened for my DD when we struggled with fit. Did the Edea tech ever widen the smaller skates? I’m wondering if the heel is also tight enough? That might be contributing to him clenching his toes like with flip flops sandals if his heel is lifting and his foot shifts.

DD is only just now trying Edea and jury is still out. My girls have a wide forefoot , tapered toes, narrow heels, and high arches. For an example of how tricky it is, both DDs did well with Jackson, but younger DD was more comfortable with loser tops and destroyed her Jackson’s. I let her try Edea as a result since they have a different style fit. Is the type of fit of Edea a good option with a “toe scruncher”? One down side of the Edeas is that they rely on the skate tech to make adjustments to a limited variety of basic fit options. Would you have the opportunity to try a wider but smaller boot? Then have the tech adjust them to widen them further? You might be able to work with Edea still. You mentioned previous custom skates so it sounds like a struggle, but hang in there! I know how it feels to deal with a kiddo trying to get the fit just right.
 

amb

Spectator
Joined
Jan 12, 2020
I used to reflexively scrunch my toes like that, but I think it was more about some subconscious feeling of wanting to feel something against my feet other than a rigid boot that provided no direct feeling of the ground combined with not having the instep laced tight enough. I also had a too-small toe box. I had the toes punched out and put a lot of mental work into consciously relaxing my feet, which messed me up for a while but ultimately helped both my skating and eliminated persistent post-skate calf pain that I was getting from the scrunching.
 
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