Heel lifts/slips and flat foot | Golden Skate

Heel lifts/slips and flat foot

jcskates

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Country
Canada
Hey everyone,

I'm a 23 year old 135 lb/60 kg beginner skater. doing elements in CanSkate 5 & 6. I have been working on my bunny hops and waltz jumps (my bunny hops are bad and working on 2 foot landings for my waltz jumps)

I noticed that my heels are lifting when I do jumps and hops. Also I have a flat right foot which makes it difficult for me to get on my right outside edge. I know when the heel is lifting it's bad but are there ways around it aside from getting new skates? I'm currently wearing Jackson Artiste.

And if I do have to get new skates, any recommendations for my current level and my flat right foot?

Thank you :D
 

SmallAminal

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Your heels should never slip...especially if you are trying to jump. Not only does it make it harder but its dangerous. Please go to a fitter, describe the problem and see if they can fix it or if you need another boot that fits better. Little fit issues become big fit issues once you start harder skills.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
OP: To correct pronation due to a flat foot, your options are:

(1) Arch support or corrective footbed

(2) Move the blade to the inside

(3) Shim the blade to raise the outside edge.

Depending on the severity of your pronation, you may need just (1), a combo of (1) + (2), or all of (1) + (2) + (3).

If you have no experience fiddling with boots and blades, consult with a competent skate tech.
 

hanyuufan5

✨**:。*
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
I know when the heel is lifting it's bad but are there ways around it aside from getting new skates?

Sadly, no. According to Jackson's fit guides, no one weighing more than 80 pounds should be doing waltz jumps in Artistes anyway: https://jacksonultima.com/pages/jackson-fit-guide

And Jackson might not even be the right brand for you.


For flat feet, depending on the cause, you might be able to fix them instead of doing anything to your skates.

I fixed mine (and a plethora of other posture issues that were causing them) with this site: http://posturedirect.com/how-to-fix-flat-feet/
 

jcskates

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Country
Canada
OP: Can you estimate how much your heels are lifting?

Im pretty sure it's more than half an inch. They told me they cant really move the blade anymore (I got a skate set so everything is drilled on the pvc sole) but i'll look into arch supports. Thank you so much.
 

jcskates

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Country
Canada
Sadly, no. According to Jackson's fit guides, no one weighing more than 80 pounds should be doing waltz jumps in Artistes anyway: https://jacksonultima.com/pages/jackson-fit-guide

And Jackson might not even be the right brand for you.


For flat feet, depending on the cause, you might be able to fix them instead of doing anything to your skates.

I fixed mine (and a plethora of other posture issues that were causing them) with this site: http://posturedirect.com/how-to-fix-flat-feet/



I thought that Artiste would carry me all the way through CanSkate. :( I should probably look into other brands and models. And thanks for the link for the exercises, gonna try it out later.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
Im pretty sure it's more than half an inch. They told me they cant really move the blade anymore (I got a skate set so everything is drilled on the pvc sole) but i'll look into arch supports. Thank you so much.
If the heels were lifting only about 1/4" or less, I'd offer you some options for dealing with it. But more than 1/2" is a really bad fit.

As long as the blades are mounted with screws (not rivets), you can move or shim the blade, even with a PVC sole. But since your heels are lifting so much, I don't think you should waste your time trying to fix your pronation problems with these boots (that includes trying out arch supports). Time for a proper fitting pair.
 

jcskates

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Country
Canada
If the heels were lifting only about 1/4" or less, I'd offer you some options for dealing with it. But more than 1/2" is a really bad fit.

As long as the blades are mounted with screws (not rivets), you can move or shim the blade, even with a PVC sole. But since your heels are lifting so much, I don't think you should waste your time trying to fix your pronation problems with these boots (that includes trying out arch supports). Time for a proper fitting pair.


Thanks tstop4me. :D gonna go and save money for my next skates. :eek:hwell:
 

Ducky

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
If the heels were lifting only about 1/4" or less, I'd offer you some options for dealing with it. But more than 1/2" is a really bad fit.

As long as the blades are mounted with screws (not rivets), you can move or shim the blade, even with a PVC sole. But since your heels are lifting so much, I don't think you should waste your time trying to fix your pronation problems with these boots (that includes trying out arch supports). Time for a proper fitting pair.

What would you recommend? I can feel my heels lift at times -- NB, I prefer an insanely tight fit so it's probably less than an 1/4 inch -- and know that my skates are either slightly too long or slightly too wide since I have to retie them at least once per session and end up with a slight dent in the toe box. My coach has recommended that I look at either Riedell Arias or Harlicks because she feels that leather will be grippier than microfiber but I can't really drop that amount of money right now so any hints would be very, very helpful.
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
What would you recommend? I can feel my heels lift at times -- NB, I prefer an insanely tight fit so it's probably less than an 1/4 inch -- and know that my skates are either slightly too long or slightly too wide since I have to retie them at least once per session and end up with a slight dent in the toe box. My coach has recommended that I look at either Riedell Arias or Harlicks because she feels that leather will be grippier than microfiber but I can't really drop that amount of money right now so any hints would be very, very helpful.

I have custom Harlicks and I still have some heel slippage plus a weird pressure issue on the side of my foot. My solution was to buy spongy makeup rounds (Target brand if you're in the USA).
I slip one between my foot and my socks; for the heel I place it at the indentation to the top of my heel. For my side foot problem I put one at the pressure point. This has helped immensely.
I also just bought some of the gel ankle sleeves and those have really snugged up my boots (shoulda bought those a long time ago!).

As far as Harlicks having grippier leather, when is the last time your coach got a new pair of Harlicks? :)
Once upon a time I wore the nylon knee highs made for skating. I can't wear those now because "i feel" that the insides for Harlicks are much smoother than they once were and I slip and slide a bit. I've had to switch to cotton socks.
Now of course I'm getting on the ancient side so I might just be feeling things a bit differently these days, but I do think that the inside finishing on Harlicks is not what it was 20 years ago.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
What would you recommend? I can feel my heels lift at times -- NB, I prefer an insanely tight fit so it's probably less than an 1/4 inch -- and know that my skates are either slightly too long or slightly too wide since I have to retie them at least once per session and end up with a slight dent in the toe box. My coach has recommended that I look at either Riedell Arias or Harlicks because she feels that leather will be grippier than microfiber but I can't really drop that amount of money right now so any hints would be very, very helpful.
(1) First thing I would try is a liner pad inserted between the tongue and the foot. Starting material is soft, squishy foam sheet [see (3) below for recommendations] about 1/4" to 3/8" thick (uncompressed); start out with 1/4", then go thicker if needed. Width is about 1/4" to 1/2" less than the width of the tongue; start out with 1/4" less, then trim more if needed. Length extends from about 3" below the front of your ankle to about 3" above the front of your ankle; trim if needed.

(2) When you put on your skate, make sure the laces are fairly loose, and open the tongue wide. Insert your foot into the boot. Place the liner pad between the tongue and your foot (from about 3" below the front of your ankle to about 3" above the front of your ankle), and lace up. The extra padding will help seat the heel of your foot into the heel of your boot more firmly.

(3) My preferred foam is Poron. It comes in a wide range of firmness. You should get the one rated Very Soft (older stock is labelled Ultra Soft) or Soft. Unfortunately it has become hard to get, and prices have skyrocketed over the last couple of years (don't know why). For playing around, you can get soft, squishy polyurethane foam sheet at some crafts stores or fabric stores (or you may have some suitable foam packing material lying around). Poron will last much longer; but the other stuff is much cheaper, and it's easy enough to make new liners when the old ones break down.

(4) If the trial liners work, then cover them with moleskin to protect the foam from abrasion each time you slip them in and out of the boot; otherwise, the foam will shed and shred.

(5) If the liners are not sufficient, then you also need to pad out the sides and back of the heel of your foot. You can try sandraskates recommendation of inserting foam between your heel and sock. If you don't need too much padding, you can also stick a strip of moleskin around the sides and back of the bare heel of your foot; pull on your sock carefully. The moleskin can be layered if needed. Toss the moleskin after each use.
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
To add, if you have a high quality boot, really good fitters, or even manufacturers can adjust padding.

For a custom Harlick, if you're adjusting padding, I'd send that back to them. There's no way I'd accept that in a $1200+ boot. They can unstitch the upper and add achilles padding or any other padding you need. You usually only have to pay shipping to them.
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
To add, if you have a high quality boot, really good fitters, or even manufacturers can adjust padding.

For a custom Harlick, if you're adjusting padding, I'd send that back to them. There's no way I'd accept that in a $1200+ boot. They can unstitch the upper and add achilles padding or any other padding you need. You usually only have to pay shipping to them.

Yes, I know but sometimes skating goals get in the way.
This is the first time I've had this many issues with a custom Harlick and they didn't appear until after skating in them for several weeks. It's impractical for me to send them back and be without skates for weeks as I'm planning on competing at Adult Nats in April.

Now, if they happen to have a booth at Nats, I am going to ask if they'll take the boots after I'm done and make those adjustments.
 

Silver Ice

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
(1) First thing I would try is a liner pad inserted between the tongue and the foot. Starting material is soft, squishy foam sheet [see (3) below for recommendations] about 1/4" to 3/8" thick (uncompressed); start out with 1/4", then go thicker if needed. Width is about 1/4" to 1/2" less than the width of the tongue; start out with 1/4" less, then trim more if needed. Length extends from about 3" below the front of your ankle to about 3" above the front of your ankle; trim if needed.

(2) When you put on your skate, make sure the laces are fairly loose, and open the tongue wide. Insert your foot into the boot. Place the liner pad between the tongue and your foot (from about 3" below the front of your ankle to about 3" above the front of your ankle), and lace up. The extra padding will help seat the heel of your foot into the heel of your boot more firmly.

(3) My preferred foam is Poron. It comes in a wide range of firmness. You should get the one rated Very Soft (older stock is labelled Ultra Soft) or Soft. Unfortunately it has become hard to get, and prices have skyrocketed over the last couple of years (don't know why). For playing around, you can get soft, squishy polyurethane foam sheet at some crafts stores or fabric stores (or you may have some suitable foam packing material lying around). Poron will last much longer; but the other stuff is much cheaper, and it's easy enough to make new liners when the old ones break down.

(4) If the trial liners work, then cover them with moleskin to protect the foam from abrasion each time you slip them in and out of the boot; otherwise, the foam will shed and shred.

(5) If the liners are not sufficient, then you also need to pad out the sides and back of the heel of your foot. You can try sandraskates recommendation of inserting foam between your heel and sock. If you don't need too much padding, you can also stick a strip of moleskin around the sides and back of the bare heel of your foot; pull on your sock carefully. The moleskin can be layered if needed. Toss the moleskin after each use.

You can also change the way you tie your skates. I have heel slippage problems, and even with semi-custom skates with extra padding to hug my achilles tendon, there's still some slight slipping that annoys me. I use the liner below the tongue like tstop described above and tie them according to the image on this page: https://skateworld1.com/skates-hurt-try-relacing/

Both of these tricks really help to keep my heel in place.
 
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