Men's quad count | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Men's quad count

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avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
... men who successfully have rotated at least one quad with overall positive GOE (and at worst, not more than one or two individual judges giving GOE of -1). ...

Thanks to eppen for your latest post.

My incomplete list includes successful quads (per my criteria stated above) from national championships (plus junior nats) as well as well-recognized international comps (ISU championships, GPs, Challengers, JGPs).
(I don't think our OP gkelly ever has mentioned a limitation only to international comps?)

Additional names from my incomplete list:
- Erokhov
- Alexander Majorov
- Miner
- Savary
- Hiroaki Satou (alternate spelling Sato), who is a different person from Shun Sato
- Sviridenkov
(IIRC: Erokhov, Alexander Majorov, Hiroaki Satou/Sato do have successful quads from international comps. Not sure about Miner.)

From my previous examples:
- Semenenko
- Yoshioka
- Zuber
 

denise3lz

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Country
Japan
Lun SONG and Nan SONG are two different skaters. Both landed clean quads.

Joshua FARRIS landed 4T at 2012 JGP USA with plus GOE.
Yuhang GUAN landed 4T, 4T+2T at 2014 Cup of China with plus GOE.
Adrien TESSON landed 4T at 2019 Winter Universiade (if its counted) with 0.00 GOE.
Liam FIRUS landed 4T+3T at 2015 Golden Spin with 0.80 GOE and two 4T at U.S. International Figure Skating Classic 2017.
Gabriele FRANGIPANI landed 4T at Dragon Trophy 2019 (if its counted) with 0.63 GOE.
Matthias VERSLUIS landed 4T+2T at Sofia Trophy 2016 (if its counted) with 1.00 GOE.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Larry Loupolover landed a clean 4Z with +GOE in his SP at Euros. His other jumps included a 3Z2T and a 2A, and his total TES was 37.68.

I’m curious: is this an example of the sport being pushed forward?

I would say it's an example of the sport pushing forward. When someone from an obscure skating country like Bulgaria (save for Denkova/Stavisky in ID), can land the hardest element in the game, that's pretty significant and most definitely a great personal achievement for Larry.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I wonder if there are quite a few skaters who landed a quad somewhere or other, but never made it to the big time where their achievement would appear in protocols from Grand Prix events and ISU championships. Maybe just a local club competition, or Regionals or something like that.

I once saw an adult skater do a triple Axel (and a pretty good one) in an adult skating competition.

First one that comes to mind is Rohene Ward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDxt3mVo-O4 I think he also did a clean SP in a minor competition (Liberty maybe?), but unfortunately couldn't bring it to the international stage.
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
I would say it's an example of the sport pushing forward. When someone from an obscure skating country like Bulgaria (save for Denkova/Stavisky in ID), can land the hardest element in the game, that's pretty significant and most definitely a great personal achievement for Larry.

Sorry to disillusion you but he was born in Brooklyn and skated for Azerbaijan / trained in NJ before skating for Bulgaria. :) Not that it matters. My point was that given he’s doing a 3-2 and a 2A, the 4Z isn’t meaningful.
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
I wonder if there are quite a few skaters who landed a quad somewhere or other, but never made it to the big time where their achievement would appear in protocols from Grand Prix events and ISU championships. Maybe just a local club competition, or Regionals or something like that.

e.g. Nicola Todeschini, who landed a clean 4T with positive GOE in his FS at Swiss Nationals in December last year, after not quite making it in his SP. I'm not sure if he's ever landed it clean in an international competition, or even tried it.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Sorry to disillusion you but he was born in Brooklyn and skated for Azerbaijan / trained in NJ before skating for Bulgaria. :) Not that it matters. My point was that given he’s doing a 3-2 and a 2A, the 4Z isn’t meaningful.

The point is the federation he comes from isn’t particularly known as a skating powerhouse - even less so in the case of Azerbaijan, than Bulgaria.

How do you figure? It was meaningful to him. Had he not done the 4Z and opted for an easy triple he probably would not have qualified for the free skate.

https://youtu.be/fddFi7ybczI
Look at his reaction. Clearly even without a 3A or 3-3 he was satisfied because his goal was probably to hit 70 points. Also shame on the judges who gave 0 to that 4Z. It was at least a +1, and arguably a +2.
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
Thanks so much for the additions! Keep them coming!! (And are you guys sure you don't already have perfect books on this?!?)

I forgot from the previous post that I also did 2009-2010 season jumpers and it was merely 17+2 trying despite the Olympic year and all... ISU standings for that season listed 170 skaters, so something like 10% or so were doing/trying quads a decade ago. The 57 + 15 trying for this season with 193 skaters listed in the world standings from the beginning of the week is a pretty big change - more than 35% have quads or are trying.

Updated the list and added a little bit of extra - marked the pre-IJS guys and put in some estimates for numbers of attempts (no separation for quality here). I have previously done calculations for those who have close to 100 or over quads in their careers and those counts are in there as well (some pre-IJS counts were not possible to reconstruct 100%). That was inspired by Joubert getting commemorated by his fed for getting 100 quads. That was from international competitions only and, as I said earlier, when all the records etc are only considered if the competition is international, then that principle has to apply here, too. BUT I started a list for national successes, again with 0.00 or positive GOE.

145 skaters have jumped at least one quad in international competition with 0.00 or positive GOE
Aaron (50+), Abbott, Abt (pre-IJS), Aliev (50+), Amodio, Aymoz
Balde, Barna (pre-IJS), Besseghier, Bradley, Brezina (50+), Browning (pre-IJS), Bychenko (50+)
Carriere, Cha, Chan (99), Chen (145+)
Dambier, Danielian, Dinev (pre-IJS), Dmitriev, Dobrin, Dornbush
Eldregde (pre-IJS), Erokhov
Farris, Fentz, Fernández (162), Firus, Frangipani
Gao, Gaschinski, Goebel (pre-IJS, 76), Gogolev, Grassl, Griazev, Grigoriev, Guan, Gumennik, Guo
Hanyu (175+), Hiwatashi, Hochstein, Honda (pre-IJS)
Ignatov
Jin (165+), Joubert (pre-IJS, 100+)
Kagiyama, Kerry, Klimkin (pre-IJS), Kolyada (75+), Kostin (pre-IJS), Kovtun, Kozuka, Krasnozhon, Kulik (pre-IJS), Kvitelashvili
Lam, Lambiel, Lazukin, Lezin, Li Chenyang, Li Yunfei (pre-IJS), Liebers, Lindemann, Litvintsev, Loupolover, Lutai, Lutfullin, Lysacek
Ma Jimmy, Ma Xiaodong, Machida, Majorov Alexander, Maysuradze, Menshov (92), Messing, Milyukov, Miner, Miura, Mozalev, Mroz, Mura, Murakami
Nadeau, Nakaniwa, Nguyen
Oda, Orzel
Paniot, Peng, Phan, Pitkeev, Plushenko (pre-IJS, 50+), Ponsart, Ponsero, Preaubert, Pulkinen
Razzano, Reynolds (153), Righini, Rizzo, Rippon, Rogers
Sabovcik (pre-IJS), Sadovsky, Samarin (75+), Samohin, Samoilov, Sandhu (pre-IJS), Sato, Satou, Savosin, Schultheiss, Selevko, Sezganov, Shimada, Siao Him Fa, Smith, Song Lun, Song Nan, Stojko (pre-IJS), Streubel
Takahashi, Tamura, Tanaka, Ten Denis, Tesson, Tomono, Torgashev
Uno (190+), Urmanov (pre-IJS)
Van den Perren, Verner, Versluis, Voronov (110+)
Wang, Warren, Weiss (pre-IJS)
Yagudin (pre-IJS), Yamamoto, Yan, Yee
Zhang He, Zhang Min (pre-IJS), Zhou (85+)

Successes at national level only (6): Mattick, Semenenko, Sviridenko, Todeschini, Yoshioka, Zuber

Attempts (28): Belohradsky, Borodulin, Brown, Buttle, Chiper, Gala, Hayrapetyan, Hino, Le May, Lee ?, Lee June, Miyake, Murashov, Pfeifer, Rogozine, Rowe, Sahaka, Tarasenko, Ten Jeremy, Tretiakov, Tsao, Tondreau-Alin, Ulanovsky, Vasiljevs, Virtanen, Ward, Weir, Zlatkov

And keep those additions coming, please!

E
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
attempts : you can add Bennet Toman... he has been attempting 4s and 4t for quite quite a while with equivalent success to Brown and Buttle... i am not sure if he has landed one cleanly ever... maybe at Nationals.. or in challenger series... ?

shaquille davis used to try two quads as well... not sure if he ever landed them

marek Ramilison attempted 4s and Edrian Celestino as well as Matt Markel attempted 4t at CQE....

i mean if we go into national qualifying events in Canada... LOTS of men attempted quads... i haven't been following the early season/small competitions for long enough to make a list but just there... from recent memory, i could name 3 in a pretty small event this last fall
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
The point is the federation he comes from isn’t particularly known as a skating powerhouse - even less so in the case of Azerbaijan, than Bulgaria.

How do you figure? It was meaningful to him. Had he not done the 4Z and opted for an easy triple he probably would not have qualified for the free skate.

https://youtu.be/fddFi7ybczI
Look at his reaction. Clearly even without a 3A or 3-3 he was satisfied because his goal was probably to hit 70 points. Also shame on the judges who gave 0 to that 4Z. It was at least a +1, and arguably a +2.

Of course he was thrilled - it’s the first and only time he’s ever landed a clean 4Z in competition after multiple tries, and he achieved a PB. Kudos to him for both things. But I don’t see how the fact that he was able to use a quad to make up for his other technical deficiencies (check out his stats on skating scores, including his stats for 3A and 3-3 combos) is evidence that skating is a sport and that quads push the sport forward. I’m curious as to your logic and would be grateful if you could explain. As to the fact he’s representing a small fed: I’d say both Javi and D10 showed that small fed skaters can be World class skaters - so I don’t think any skater deserves a pass for the level of tech content they achieve based solely on who they represent.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Of course he was thrilled - it’s the first and only time he’s ever landed a clean 4Z in competition after multiple tries, and he achieved a PB. Kudos to him for both things. But I don’t see how the fact that he was able to use a quad to make up for his other technical deficiencies (check out his stats on skating scores, including his stats for 3A and 3-3 combos) is evidence that skating is a sport and that quads push the sport forward. I’m curious as to your logic and would be grateful if you could explain. As to the fact he’s representing a small fed: I’d say both Javi and D10 showed that small fed skaters can be World class skaters - so I don’t think any skater deserves a pass for the level of tech content they achieve based solely on who they represent.

I'm not quite sure why you're trying to trivialize Larry's achievement or what your point is. And you're picking a rather rare example (a skater doing a 4Z but then electing to do just a 2A and 3-2 combo -- although the latter looked intended to be a 3-3 but the lutz was off balance). I'm not sure how Loupolover doing a 3A and a 3-3 in that same program would suddenly be evidence for quads pushing the sport either.

Is Trusova not pushing the sport forward because in spite of executing 4Z she's only been able to do 2As thus far?

Everyone knows that a skater is more than just one element. But quads obviously push the sport forward. Just look at who the leading skaters are. And Loupolover is a good example of how even lower-tier skaters are empowered and encouraged to train a quad.

Also, I'm not giving him a "pass". With Javi and Denis it was a big deal that they reached the top of the sport, but it was in huge part due to their quads and talent that got them there, because they certainly didn't have the backing of a big federation.

A skater from an unpopular fed doesn't have to win an Olympic medal to be remarkable in their elements or achievements, or to be regarded as pushing the sport/themselves in their own way. Had Larry done an easier triple instead of the 4Z, he would have probably failed to make the FS of Euros, and we wouldn't even be discussing him in this thread. To diminish his 4Z as "Oh well, a 4Z would have been notable, but he didn't do a tripe axel or 3-3."

If a skater does a 4A and pops every other element in the program, do we dismiss that program and say "Well, that's not really pushing the sport, since they didn't hit every planned element."

Rena Inoue and John Baldwin did the first ever throw triple axel in the 2006 Olympics. http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2006/OWG06_Pairs_SP_Scores.pdf But, never mind that, they only did side by side double axels and failed to max their levels. So were they really pushing the sport?
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I don’t want to speak for @Tavi, but she is far from trivializing the sport.

To me, an insistence that every single quad, no matter from who and no matter when, is some sign of “progress” trivializes the sport far more. :shrug:

Yay for everyone who has ever landed a quad:agree: It’s not a sign of “progress” in the sport. :)
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
I'm not quite sure why you're trying to trivialize Larry's achievement or what your point is. And you're picking a rather rare example (a skater doing a 4Z but then electing to do just a 2A and 3-2 combo -- although the latter looked intended to be a 3-3 but the lutz was off balance). I'm not sure how Loupolover doing a 3A and a 3-3 in that same program would suddenly be evidence for quads pushing the sport either.

Is Trusova not pushing the sport forward because in spite of executing 4Z she's only been able to do 2As thus far?

Everyone knows that a skater is more than just one element. But quads obviously push the sport forward. Just look at who the leading skaters are. And Loupolover is a good example of how even lower-tier skaters are empowered and encouraged to train a quad.

Also, I'm not giving him a "pass". With Javi and Denis it was a big deal that they reached the top of the sport, but it was in huge part due to their quads and talent that got them there, because they certainly didn't have the backing of a big federation.

A skater from an unpopular fed doesn't have to win an Olympic medal to be remarkable in their elements or achievements, or to be regarded as pushing the sport/themselves in their own way. Had Larry done an easier triple instead of the 4Z, he would have probably failed to make the FS of Euros, and we wouldn't even be discussing him in this thread. To diminish his 4Z as "Oh well, a 4Z would have been notable, but he didn't do a tripe axel or 3-3."

If a skater does a 4A and pops every other element in the program, do we dismiss that program and say "Well, that's not really pushing the sport, since they didn't hit every planned element."

Rena Inoue and John Baldwin did the first ever throw triple axel in the 2006 Olympics. http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2006/OWG06_Pairs_SP_Scores.pdf But, never mind that, they only did side by side double axels and failed to max their levels. So were they really pushing the sport?

I’m not trying to trivialize his achievement. It’s great. But my question in post 13 was not whether it was a great personal achievement but whether his achievement is an example of the sport being pushed forward. You initially responded in post 15 that it’s an example of the sport pushing itself forward, and added that it’s “pretty significant” when someone from a relatively obscure federation “can land the hardest element in the game.” I disagree with the latter as applied to him - he’s US born and trained - and the fact that he can land a quad but can’t do anything else makes me question strongly how the sport is being pushed forward.
 
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