If Tonya Harding had been coached by Eteri, do you think she would hav | Page 2 | Golden Skate

If Tonya Harding had been coached by Eteri, do you think she would hav

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
I think that Tonya would have been capable of executing a quad back in her day, regardless of who her coach was.

Also, one last question: do you think it’s time to forgive her?

Not sure I use the word "forgive."
My opinion is that she made all her restitution requirements and has has gotten her life back on a good track.
In other sports (and professions) that has been satisfactory enough to let a player back in. I feel that she should be allowed membership in USFSA and PSA to coach as she'd probably become very successful. I could see her having elite-level students.
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I'm not so generous. I think she was part of a very grievous attack that could have had lifelong physical ramifications to Nancy Kerrigan. Whether she was coerced into cooperation or whatever, it's just the same as cheating in baseball - think Pete Rose. She still doesn't show any remorse other than how the incident affected her. We all make our own decisions and hers were particularly bad. To me she had no respect for her sport. I hope she doesn't get reinstated.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
I agree with this. Most of you know that I saw Tonya live when she won Skate America back in 1991. She was tiny and her jumps were HUGE! She was built quite differently than the Eteri ladies that I have seen. She was muscular in both her lower AND upper body. When I compare her to Maria Butyrskaya who was quite slight in both her upper and lower body. It makes me think that Eteri selects a certain type of body frame and that Tonya would not have been to her liking. I don't think they would have been a match.

You probably remember how Tonya jumps watching her live.
Did you notice the power and height came mainly from the legs, and was assisted by the arms.
Now watch this jump from Sherbakova: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP9urcSD7iw
She swings her entire upper body into the jump, her arms actually go above her head and throws her upper body into her jumps.
Dudakov works with smaller girls as it's easier to teach this sort of technique, where the majority of the power comes from the upper body and arms.
Compared to Tonya's 3Lz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_2zevo3bco
Yes she also uses her body and arms for the transfer,
However you can see the jump mainly comes from the legs. Her upper body remains strong, and whilst there is a change of weight she uses her legs to pole vault herself into the jump.
Look at this combination with Zagitova: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Si9BpTV_ds - you can see the way she muscles the +3T with upper body. Medvedeva also demonstrates this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGljbivDe-E - the way she uses her upper body.

Then compare to Tonya harding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIGoWGjetog&t=70s
This is a lot from the legs continuing the momentum from the first triple toe into the second, rather than reloading arms and body to push into next jump.

I'm not commenting on the success of Dudakov technique or the technique vs other techniques, just stating the jump mechanisms and why Tonya wouldn't be a good match.
 

dunffvanstorn

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
I have recently found out Tonya was 1.47m! I never thought she was so short, and also Midori Ito was 1.45m. I think Tonya and Midori have a lot in common, the height, the muscular legs. I wonder if we’ll ever see ladies like this in FS again. It seems like the very thin girls are a trend that has come to stay, and that’s such a petty.


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drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I have recently found out Tonya was 1.47m! I never thought she was so short, and also Midori Ito was 1.45m. I think Tonya and Midori have a lot in common, the height, the muscular legs. I wonder if we’ll ever see ladies like this in FS again. It seems like the very thin girls are a trend that has come to stay, and that’s such a petty.


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We still see a variety of body types. Some of the Japanese women have muscular legs and are doing (or training) 3A and/or quads. Alena is another powerful skater who does huge jumps with no prerotation.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I am not sure Tonya would have got the quad with Eteri only because of their personalities. But I do think if she had the right coach she may have got a quad. But who cares Tonya isn't allowed to compete and has retired/forced out long ago. Maybe we should ask what if Eteri coached Midori Ito would she have a quad. If Evgenia went back to Eteri would she get a quad. It is not just your reputation it is the magic between you and coach as well as whether physically and mentally suitable, how driven you are etc.
 

Thrashergurl

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Eteri would’ve provided Tonya with the guidance she lacked. It seems that Eteri had a close relationship with Medvedeva and an even closer relationship with Zagitova. Hypothetically speaking, I believe Tonya would’ve done well with Eteri’s coaching and methods. Tonya was tough. Eteri is tough. But let’s face it, she has a way of making the girls work and helping meet their maximum potential.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Eteri would’ve provided Tonya with the guidance she lacked. It seems that Eteri had a close relationship with Medvedeva and an even closer relationship with Zagitova. Hypothetically speaking, I believe Tonya would’ve done well with Eteri’s coaching and methods. Tonya was tough. Eteri is tough. But let’s face it, she has a way of making the girls work and helping meet their maximum potential.

But Eteri teaches totally different technique. She'd have taken pre-pubertal Tonya and tried to use methods to keep her thin, and her jumps would be totally different
Secondly, Tonya wouldn't listen to Eteri and that would annoy Eteri.
Thirdly Eteri doesn't accept disobedience or rudeness from her skaters.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
I have recently found out Tonya was 1.47m! I never thought she was so short, and also Midori Ito was 1.45m. I think Tonya and Midori have a lot in common, the height, the muscular legs. I wonder if we’ll ever see ladies like this in FS again. It seems like the very thin girls are a trend that has come to stay, and that’s such a petty.


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Uh no. Tonya was taller than that more like 5'1". Also, Tonya and Midori had totally different body shapes and it made a difference with their jumps and each of their techniques.
 

skater1717

Spectator
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
I don't think it would have worked. Tonya was of the old school technique which meant jump..... not so much a gymnastic style of small pre-puberty girls. She was a woman who skated with power. Skating has changed so much over the years....it, not a ladies sport it is a little girls sport to see how fast you can rotate but I do think she was capable of doing quads.
 

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
I think Eteri is and would have been a "no nonsense" coach. Tonya would have worked hard at the rink and instructed to go home and sleep and come back and work harder. Eteri might have even arranged for Tonya to live apart from her mother based on the bad influence. There would not have been much time for extracurriculars. I think Tonya might have thrived in that environment and perhaps had a better outcome.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
I think Eteri is and would have been a "no nonsense" coach. Tonya would have worked hard at the rink and instructed to go home and sleep and come back and work harder. Eteri might have even arranged for Tonya to live apart from her mother based on the bad influence. There would not have been much time for extracurriculars. I think Tonya might have thrived in that environment and perhaps had a better outcome.

Sure. If Eteri could work with Tonya's body. Which she doesn't. Look at the body shape of every single one of her girls: http://bitly.ws/8CdS
then look at tonya: https://www.biography.com/.image/c_...-should-read-chris-wilkinsafpgetty-images.jpg

They are completely different builds, and Dudakov technique wouldn't work well for Tonya.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
They are completely different builds, and Dudakov technique wouldn't work well for Tonya.
But if the team hasn’t worked with someone of Tonya’s build Then you’re really just speculating. Maybe it wouldn’t work out out but I wouldn’t state it as outright fact. Tonya had great physical abilities. Who knows...maybe she’d have had a more steady career with those abilities focused in different ways.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
Tonya’s biopics made it sound like the main obstacles were that her PCS were lowered because of her working class background. In Tutberidze’s school, the background makes no difference and they work on higher PCS.

Tonya has a powerful 3A, which is sufficient for Kostornaya to stay with Tutberidze’s school. However, the musical choices might have been a problem, since not a single Female skater I saw there so far had anything particularly brash as music choice, and, again, going only on the biopic, it caused problems for Tonya with the judges.

They would have tested her for the ability to jump a quad, however, as the judging system indicates both them and now, jumping quads for a female skater is not enough to win.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
I don't think it would have worked. Tonya was of the old school technique which meant jump..... not so much a gymnastic style of small pre-puberty girls. She was a woman who skated with power. Skating has changed so much over the years....it, not a ladies sport it is a little girls sport to see how fast you can rotate but I do think she was capable of doing quads.

According to the biopic, Harding won her first completions as a little girl over the girls considerably older than she was at the time, so she absolutely was an early starter, no different from the young ladies in Russia. Her adult height also was far below average.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
I think this combo would be so toxic. It would be like me moving back in with my mother. One of us wouldn’t survive a week. And it isn’t up to me to forgive her. In my experience forgiveness is for the person doing the forgiving anyway. It keeps the other person from living rent free in your head.

Tonya was one of my favorites before the bad thing happened. I love strong powerful women skaters, not fragile little jumping beans.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I think this combo would be so toxic.

Tonya was one of my favorites before the bad thing happened. I love strong powerful women skaters, not fragile little jumping beans.

Those "little jumping beans" would not be able to do those jumps if they were fragile.
 

VenusHalley

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
It would not work. Tonya is not the type who would stand being yelled at and Eteri would not handle somebody disobeing her. Tonya would probably never agree to some potential program choices and cutesy costumes.
 

KOBOT37

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
It's hard to stay with Eteri after you grow up and not because of "technique for children".

It takes very certain mentality to stay there after you are somewhat independent in choices, it is not accident that only successful adult female skaters she has/had are Elisabeth and Alina,both of whom have eastern values. I doubt western "independent strong woman" types can stick with her for long.
 
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