Will Zagitova return? | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Will Zagitova return?

JazzUp

#янехомяк!
Medalist
Joined
May 28, 2019
Don't they all have school exams?
Alexandra and Alena have also been talking about the exams in every recent interview. Idk how the Russian school system works, especially not the alternative one they are in, but can they be having the same exams even though they are 3 years apart in age?

9th graders have to pass BSU (Basic State Exams) - those were cancelled this year; 11th graders have USE (Unified State Exams; in Alina's case, since she's going for higher education after school, there will be 4 tests) - those were only postponed.
 

voolfee

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Saw a post on Instagram that Zagitova will not immediately join the rest of the national team for training but at a later date. I get that she's got school exams. But that's just going to fuel the speculation that she's not invested/interested in continuing to compete.

Amazing conclusions, take off my hat.:palmf: Firstly, Alina is now in Izhevsk. Secondly, you draw conclusions because of rumor. And this can't be connected with school exams, because they will begin only in july. In my opinion Alina made it clear many times that she is interested in the continuation of a career.
 

JazzUp

#янехомяк!
Medalist
Joined
May 28, 2019
Amazing conclusions, take off my hat.:palmf: Firstly, Alina is now in Izhevsk. Secondly, you draw conclusions because of rumor. And this can't be connected with school exams, because they will begin only in july. In my opinion Alina made it clear many times that she is interested in the continuation of a career.

Those rumours and these 'conclusions' most probably come from the fact that Alina decided not to leave immediately after the announcement from the ministry was made public, but chose to stay in Izhevsk and celebrate Eid al-Fitr (Uraza Bayram) with her family first :)
 

Resa

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Isn't it funny how it's the same group of people who said that she shouldn't be "retiring" when she said she wanted to take a break a 17 who are now saying she is done before Alina has said so herself? Seems more like they wish she'd be done. And also it's the same group of people who were saying that skating is more than just jumps who are saying Alina is over because she doesn't have 3As and quads.

Also, Alina won worlds in 2019 post puberty, so if her technique failed, that was quite the fail. It is known that jumping ability is affected by growth, regardless of technique. I believe it took Liza 3 seasons to regain her consistency, and even then it's not where it was in 2015. That's with Mishin's coaching. Alina did that in one season and has also said in many post olympic interviews that the issue was mental because of the pressure from the media after her olympic win where as before people didn't really know her and so she could just go out and skate. And if you watched her run throughs, they were always clean. But of course that wouldn't fit the agenda, so let's ignore all that. Instead, it's better to just ignore everything she says and decide for her whether she will return or not, if she can still jump, if she wants to win or not (spoiler alert: all skaters want to win, that's why they're in a competitive sport). Because the viewers know much more than she does

Alina is a human being who has her own thoughts and opinions and no one knows more about her situation than she does, so we should listen to what she has to say instead of making up our own stories. She's not a tool for Eteri fans and haters, though she definitely has been the first choice.

Whether she returns or not is up to her. She doesn't owe it to her haters or her fans. If she's coming back, good for her for offering more of her time to the sport. If she's done, she's had a great career and accomplished only what one other female skater has. But even if she didn't have any medals like the majority of athletes in any sport, she still made a contribution and should be able to decide when she wants to leave without being used to fuel a narrative, just like everyone else.

Liza also stated that her consistency issues were mostly mental. In 2015, she pretty much had finished with puberty. Her puberty years were mostly in 2013/2014. After 2015, her body did not change dramatically and she herself said that the consistency problems post 2015 were mental
 

Gabby30

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
When people say "she's done", they mean that her best times are over. Which they are. It's not something skaters announce by themselves, lol
Her best times as a skater was the olympic season. No matter what medals she got after that ( and we know medals aren't a proof of how good someone is - or people would acknowledge Sotnikova as an olympic champion or Patrick Chan as a deserving 3 time world champion) , it doesn't change the fact that she is getting worse with every season. And it doesn't matter if it's technique or mental, it's irrelevant.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
When people say "she's done", they mean that her best times are over. Which they are. It's not something skaters announce by themselves, lol
Her best times as a skater was the olympic season. No matter what medals she got after that ( and we know medals aren't a proof of how good someone is - or people would acknowledge Sotnikova as an olympic champion or Patrick Chan as a deserving 3 time world champion) , it doesn't change the fact that she is getting worse with every season. And it doesn't matter if it's technique or mental, it's irrelevant.

When Alina got the medal of a world champion, she got it because that's how good she was.

Once again people should compare Alina's scores e.g. from the preolympic competitions, when she "had the best times as a skater", and the same period a year later, when she "was getting worse". Her results were in fact better. And even if people created a world of their own in which Alina will not win anything anymore, she became a world champion. That was a strong blow for the antifans, so the narrative "she should retire, she won't win anything anymore" changed into "she should retire, she has won everything already" :biggrin:

The truth is Alina always rotated not ideal skates with the perfect (or at least very strong) ones, she usually didn't have a line of just pure perfect skates even during the olympic season. She kept winning the GP's with mistakes, because she was still stronger than her competitors. The perfect skates were Europeans 2018 and OG. Than the next season she had strong enter into the season at Nebelhorn and JO, than struggled (but still qualified for the GPF - because most off the Alina's competitors would kill for having such skate as Alina has when she "is getting worse"), then again raised and won Worlds. The last season wasn't much different, strong start, then struggles at GP and GPF, but the only thing that was important was how much she wanted to compete. If she would truly want to compete in the future, there is no way she shouldn't do well. That's the only important thing. And if she wiould, than we shouldn't expect perfect skate all the time, but we should expect pwerfect skates at the most important events.

Once again I must ask why people, who were not present at Alina's victories, who were not interested about her (definitely not in a positive way), now spend so much energy into "explaining the world" that precisely this particular skater "is done". This is not a case of interest, honest concern of objective evaluation.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
When people say "she's done", they mean that her best times are over. Which they are. It's not something skaters announce by themselves, lol
Her best times as a skater was the olympic season. No matter what medals she got after that ( and we know medals aren't a proof of how good someone is - or people would acknowledge Sotnikova as an olympic champion or Patrick Chan as a deserving 3 time world champion) , it doesn't change the fact that she is getting worse with every season. And it doesn't matter if it's technique or mental, it's irrelevant.

You can't speak for people who write that Alina is done. You don't know what they mean. Some say it because they want her retire because they don't like her. Some say she's done because they look at aliona and Anna and think she can't reach their scores anymore. Some people think she's done because she's an Eteri girl and they don't want to see one of her skaters skating well late into her teens. I say if the reigning and defending world and Olympic champion gives it her all to get back in the sport on a competitive level she can compete with everybody except Anna and Sasha if they're hitting their quads and aliona if she's on. She can obviously compete and beat anyone in America or Japan right now. Are people wanting the top two American girls and the top two Japanese girls to go away? Nyet. So why would you want Alina to go away who's better than any girl in Japan or America? Did anyone watch worlds 14 months ago? Oh and she can compete and beat YY too. So the top two american ladies are like 22 and 24 years old and everybody lauds what they are doing. Again why should Alina just go away at 18? She shouldn't. And her normal skates Alina beats everyone in the world except a few skaters. That's the reality. Even if she doesn't skate at her Olympic gold or World gold medal levels she's still very good and as good or better than everyone except 3A.

And who says all of these skaters that do quads and triple axles are going to last? Who's to say they won't have injuries and then another year or two Alina will be the last one standing? Only time will tell. But she should only retire if she wants to or if she's having physical difficulties with a Troublesome left knee. But I think she will look at Liza at 23 years old still doing well and draw inspiration from that.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
But I think she will look at Liza at 23 years old still doing well and draw inspiration from that.

Liza is an inspiration, but her jump technique is far superior to almost any other active skater. Even looking at the 3As she did in practice at 13, the technique on the jump was almost identical to what she does now, so she never had to do any sort of major reworking of her jumps.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Liza is an inspiration, but her jump technique is far superior to almost any other active skater. Even looking at the 3As she did in practice at 13, the technique on the jump was almost identical to what she does now, so she never had to do any sort of major reworking of her jumps.

How her technique is far superior when she didn't have a reliable flip and salchow the last season, and her only reliable triple-triple was 3T-3T? And how she had so ups and downs in her performances then? That narrative that Liza has superior technique is just a false narrative, and even British Eurosport commentator stated a problem with it - that she rely (jumping) too much (on) using only her legs. Yes, her Lutz and Axel are very good, but her overall jumping technique - not really... I mean, there is no perfect jumping technique, and every skater should accommodate it to themselves in order to stay on their feet after the jump - that's the whole point of jumping...
 

Thrashergurl

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Those rumours and these 'conclusions' most probably come from the fact that Alina decided not to leave immediately after the announcement from the ministry was made public, but chose to stay in Izhevsk and celebrate Eid al-Fitr (Uraza Bayram) with her family first :)

This whole thread is based on rumors and speculation. Alina hasn’t made any official announcement one way or another. Nobody here is posting facts. It’s all speculation. Nobody should be attacked for their posts.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I say if the reigning and defending world and Olympic champion gives it her all to get back in the sport on a competitive level she can compete with everybody except Anna and Sasha if they're hitting their quads and aliona if she's on. She can obviously compete and beat anyone in America or Japan right now.Are people wanting the top two American girls and the top two Japanese girls to go away? Nyet. So why would you want Alina to go away who's better than any girl in Japan or America? Did anyone watch worlds 14 months ago? Oh and she can compete and beat YY too. So the top two american ladies are like 22 and 24 years old and everybody lauds what they are doing. Again why should Alina just go away at 18? She shouldn't. And her normal skates Alina beats everyone in the world except a few skaters. That's the reality. Even if she doesn't skate at her Olympic gold or World gold medal levels she's still very good and as good or better than everyone except 3A.

And who says all of these skaters that do quads and triple axles are going to last? Who's to say they won't have injuries and then another year or two Alina will be the last one standing? Only time will tell. But she should only retire if she wants to or if she's having physical difficulties with a Troublesome left knee. But I think she will look at Liza at 23 years old still doing well and draw inspiration from that.

She could beat the US skaters (less Liu), Japanese (less Kihara when she hits her triple axel), and the Korean ladies; problem is that with the exception of Challenger and GP events she has to be top 3 in Russia to get to international competitions like Europeans/Worlds/Olympics to compete against them. If we go based off combining performance and technical abilities of the 3 Junior skaters that went to junior Worlds (who I believe will all be age-eligible by 2022 Olympics) and top 3 Senior skaters for Russia plus Zagitova and they all go clean Zagitova is in 5th-6th place behind Shcherbakova/Kostornaia/Trusova/Valieva. I'm not saying Zagitova's career is done/over, but right now based off her best skating - she doesn't have the technical goods to be top 3 in her country which means not going to any of the 'big 3' competitions. You are right - no one knows what's going to happen in the next 2 years but it feels safe to say it would be a bad strategy to assume that 4 super talented skaters all manage to lose their jumps and no one else shows up with those jumps in the next 2 years as well. If she wants to stay competitive for the top spot in her country and go back to the Olympics/Worlds/Europeans, I don't think that the technical arsenal of 2018 Worlds is going to get her there.

How her technique is far superior when she didn't have a reliable flip and salchow the last season, and her only reliable triple-triple was 3T-3T? And how she had so ups and downs in her performances then? That narrative that Liza has superior technique is just a false narrative, and even British Eurosport commentator stated a problem with it - that she rely (jumping) too much (on) using only her legs. Yes, her Lutz and Axel are very good, but her overall jumping technique - not really... I mean, there is no perfect jumping technique, and every skater should accommodate it to themselves in order to stay on their feet after the jump - that's the whole point of jumping...

Tuktamysheva's technique is really good on what are considering the 2 hardest jumps the lutz and the axel, but she also rarely does any type of transitions into or out of her jumps. It would be interesting to see if she added transitions to her jumps, how nice would her technique stay - you get more points for transitions in and out of jumps for a reason because it makes the jump more difficult.
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Can I ask, why is it that we cheer on and treasure the uncles in the men's discipline no matter what they do or don't do, but some people seem to think these girls - who even in their lesser competitions are still world class sportswomen and give enormous joy to thousands of fans - should take themselves off and out of sight the minute that someone shinier wants their place?

And this despite the fact that Alina is one of the biggest international draws in figure skating, possibly one of the top three currently competing, and Evgenia Medvedeva isn't far behind.
 

Finley

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Can I ask, why is it that we cheer on and treasure the uncles in the men's discipline no matter what they do or don't do, but some people seem to think these girls - who even in their lesser competitions are still world class sportswomen and give enormous joy to thousands of fans - should take themselves off and out of sight the minute that someone shinier wants their place?

And this despite the fact that Alina is one of the biggest international draws in figure skating, possibly one of the top three currently competing, and Evgenia Medvedeva isn't far behind.

This is very true. I wonder if they really feel that way or if they just want to rile up fans of certain skaters? Whatever the case may be, it would be nice if it stopped. Time will put everything in it's place.
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
This is very true. I wonder if they really feel that way or if they just want to rile up fans of certain skaters? Whatever the case may be, it would be nice if it stopped. Time will put everything in it's place.

I think I just sometimes want Alina - I want them all - to channel Lizzie Bennett...

"I am only resolved to act in that matter, which will, in my own opinion, constitute my own happiness, without reference to you, or any other person so wholly unconnected to my happiness."
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Tuktamysheva's technique is really good on what are considering the 2 hardest jumps the lutz and the axel, but she also rarely does any type of transitions into or out of her jumps. It would be interesting to see if she added transitions to her jumps, how nice would her technique stay - you get more points for transitions in and out of jumps for a reason because it makes the jump more difficult.

Yeah. For example Liza's and Alina's 2A are two totally different elements. The first one is a 2A, and the second one is a 2A with the Charlotte spiral into it.. Like Yuna's Ina bauer 2A....You can't compare...
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
This whole thread is based on rumors and speculation. Alina hasn’t made any official announcement one way or another. Nobody here is posting facts. It’s all speculation. Nobody should be attacked for their posts.
Fact - Danil said Alina's music is chosen for next season.. to me that means she skates competitively if there is a next season.
She could beat the US skaters (less Liu), Japanese (less Kihara when she hits her triple axel), and the Korean ladies; problem is that with the exception of Challenger and GP events she has to be top 3 in Russia to get to international competitions like Europeans/Worlds/Olympics to compete against them. If we go based off combining performance and technical abilities of the 3 Junior skaters that went to junior Worlds (who I believe will all be age-eligible by 2022 Olympics) and top 3 Senior skaters for Russia plus Zagitova and they all go clean Zagitova is in 5th-6th place behind Shcherbakova/Kostornaia/Trusova/Valieva. I'm not saying Zagitova's career is done/over, but right now based off her best skating - she doesn't have the technical goods to be top 3 in her country which means not going to any of the 'big 3' competitions. You are right - no one knows what's going to happen in the next 2 years but it feels safe to say it would be a bad strategy to assume that 4 super talented skaters all manage to lose their jumps and no one else shows up with those jumps in the next 2 years as well. If she wants to stay competitive for the top spot in her country and go back to the Olympics/Worlds/Europeans, I don't think that the technical arsenal of 2018 Worlds is going to get her there.



Tuktamysheva's technique is really good on what are considering the 2 hardest jumps the lutz and the axel, but she also rarely does any type of transitions into or out of her jumps. It would be interesting to see if she added transitions to her jumps, how nice would her technique stay - you get more points for transitions in and out of jumps for a reason because it makes the jump more difficult.
Alina can beat anyone at any time even without quads and triple axels. Those who do those very tough jumps are almost never clean. Other than Aliona of course. If there is a next season if one of 3A is off their game and Alina is really good she could still make another European or World team. And if she's not skating at a high level to compete for medals in Grand Prix events or european championships or national championships so what.

Can I ask, why is it that we cheer on and treasure the uncles in the men's discipline no matter what they do or don't do, but some people seem to think these girls - who even in their lesser competitions are still world class sportswomen and give enormous joy to thousands of fans - should take themselves off and out of sight the minute that someone shinier wants their place?

And this despite the fact that Alina is one of the biggest international draws in figure skating, possibly one of the top three currently competing, and Evgenia Medvedeva isn't far behind.

Wonderful post. I want Alina and evgenia and Eliza around as long as possible even if they're not skating their best or winning medals . It is annoying seeing the men year after year after year with no competition in their own countries to push them. It's a million times tougher for the Russian ladies and will be for probably decades.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Well if Alina is at the training camp in the midst of a epic pandemic with her teammates I would say that's a really good sign she's going to return to competition. She could be hanging out at her apartment with her animals staying safe. But instead she's risking it all to train to get better than last season and to continue on. I look forward to seeing the finished product this next season if there is a next season. She could be doing all this training and preparation for no season that must mean she really wants it.
 

ParadiceSport

Rinkside
Joined
May 21, 2020
This is official statement (i don't know if it was discussed already)
At a virtual meeting of the FFKKR Executive Committee on May 15, the composition of candidates for the Russian national teams was approved.

Ladies: Alina Zagitova, Alena Kostornaya, Evgenia Medvedeva, Alexandra Trusova, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, Anna Scherbakova,

This does not mean that she will return, it means that she is in the list officially.
 

Thrashergurl

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Guys, let’s not forget that the American Mariah Bell beat Alina in the LP this season. As did Bradie, Kihira and many others.
I agree Alina is a great skater, but she wasn’t beating these girls last season and it’s not fair to discredit them and Count them out
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Guys, let’s not forget that the American Mariah Bell beat Alina in the LP this season. As did Bradie, Kihira and many others.
I agree Alina is a great skater, but she wasn’t beating these girls last season and it’s not fair to discredit them and Count them out

So, while several people spend days by counting Alina out you then come and ask for not counting several skaters out :rolleye:
 
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