New ISU rules for the upcoming season | Golden Skate

New ISU rules for the upcoming season

Lunalovesskating

Moonbear power šŸ»
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
The ISU has done some changes in regards to BVs as well as other technical rules in singles and pair skating.

The ISU has added a category called "q" when judging underrotations. If a jump is one quarter under it will receive a q in the system, the BV of the jump will stay the same, but judges will give GOE deductions. Seems to be the equivalent of the ! in edge calls.
The BV of underrotations and edge calls has also been raised.
The BV of Quads has also changed. The BV of the 4Lo, 4Lz and 4F are now the same.
3F and 3Lz now have the same BV.


See more rule changes here:
BV rule changes
https://t.co/k5Bh1QPsuh?amp=1

GOE and other changes
https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-...lty-and-guidelines-for-marking-goe-final/file
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
This sounds good to me, more differentiation in marks for the jump completion.
 

fallingsk8er

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Hmmm. Those rule changes seem pretty specific.
It's almost as if the ISU is trying to change the rules to benefit a specific skaters strengths vs. another skaters weaknesses.
:scratch3:
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Hmmm. Those rule changes seem pretty specific.
It's almost as if the ISU is trying to change the rules to benefit a specific skaters strengths vs. another skaters weaknesses.
:scratch3:

Flutzers are rejoicing, since now they donā€™t have a disadvantage against lippers. The differences were small anyways though.
The 4Lo guys are probably the happiest of all now.
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
The ISU has done some changes in regards to BVs as well as other technical rules in singles and pair skating.

The ISU has added a category called "q" when judging underrotations. If a jump is one quarter under it will receive a q in the system, the BV of the jump will stay the same, but judges will give GOE deductions. Seems to be the equivalent of the ! in edge calls.
The BV of underrotations and edge calls has also been raised.
The BV of Quads has also changed. The BV of the 4Lo, 4Lz and 4F are now the same.
3F and 3Lz now have the same BV.


See more rule changes here:
https://t.co/k5Bh1QPsuh?amp=1

There are a lot more changes than just those, and not all on jumps either. Lack of connection between choreographic movements now accrues -2 to -3 GOE, change of edge between jumps in a jump combination -1 to -2, and interestingly, 'poor takeoff' has become 'poor/cheated takeoff'* and accrues -1 to -3 GOE. There are quite a few updates for Pairs too.

*Definition of this is given as: "Poor/cheated take-off: For example a toe-assisted jump is taken off from the full blade, Toe Loop is executed like a Toe Axel or there is excessive rotation on the ice at the take-off. The reduction in GOE is -1 to -3."
 

Ichatdelune

Long live the Queen and her successors
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Country
South-Korea
I find the 4Lo BV increase fair, it's notorious in its difficulty and there aren't many who jump that jump in the first place let alone consistently. With the flips and the lutzes... Well, even more arguing about edge calls is going to arise
 

fzztsimmons

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Would anyone be able to explain the difference in scoring that the change to Flips/Lutzes will have? I don't know enough about the technical side of things, but assuming that ! and e calls still reduce base value/goe, is there a particular advantage/disadvantage to flips and lutzes being the same?
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
No changes to spin, step sequence or choreo sequence BVs, but some alterations to BVs for lifts and death spirals.

Would anyone be able to explain the difference in scoring that the change to Flips/Lutzes will have? I don't know enough about the technical side of things, but assuming that ! and e calls still reduce base value/goe, is there a particular advantage/disadvantage to flips and lutzes being the same?

Lutzes now have the same BV as flips, so they don't provide an automatic scoring boost. q and ! calls reduce GOE without affecting BV on both, and e, < and << calls reduce both BV and GOE on both - and by the same amount, because deductions are a percentage of the BV total.

If someone wants to get a points advantage for doing a Lutz and/or a flip now, they'll have to put it in the last 3 jumps of the free or as the final jump of the short (and the Lutz is the compulsory solo jump for juniors this season, so we may see lots of attempts at late Lutzes.
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
Screwed over people who worked so hard to get a deep outside lutz edge.

They still get access to full GOE on a good jump, which the people with shallow or unclear edges don't.

What I'm annoyed about is that jumps landed 'within the quarter' (ie between the quarter mark and fully rotated) now attract a -GOE penalty. I mean, come on, we all know who's going to actually be penalised for not getting perfectly complete rotations and who's not.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
They still get access to full GOE on a good jump, which the people with shallow or unclear edges don't.

But if they worked hard to get good lutz edge and then they have unclear edge on flip, then they will be in the same boat.
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
But if they worked hard to get good lutz edge and then they have unclear edge on flip, then they will be in the same boat.

Well, that just means a majority of the fellas and a majority of the gals are in the same situation for once. Maybe like this we'll actually start to see the boys getting their murky flip edges called more often.
 

frida80

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Yeah, this is ridiculous. The lutz is considered the hardest jump because you have to take off from your non-dominate edge. Flips are easier, which is they should have a lower base value. Only a handful of skater have proper lutz technique. The real problem was that everyone was ignoring flat/inside edges.

The quads are even more perplexing. I donā€™t think 4Los are harder, just that people donā€™t want to waste the effort when they could get better BV and GOE for a 4F and 4Lz. Itā€™s very disapointing to see these changes.

As for the prerotation ā€œaddition,ā€ weā€™ll wait and see. I have some real doubts that they will be applied. Prerotation rules been on the books for years.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
yeah i don't know about all this...some of this is getting way too nitpicky.

i don't agree with giving a GOE deduction for jumps that are further around than the quarter mark but less than fully backward. that is SUPER nitpicky imo, and will be very hard in a lot of cases to determine...i mean, theres already so much controversy on when jumps should be given carrots. they just made it even harder.

if they're going to add in rules and language about "prerotation" and "full blade takeoff" they need to be MUCH more specific. what does "excessive rotation" mean? at what degree does a skater's blade have to be? when they say "full blade", does that mean if a skater just puts their entire blade on the ice without any contact between the ice or toe pick, or does it mean if a skater plants their toe and then rocks back to "full blade"? :)palmf:...thats all i have to say about this rule)

i don't understand having the same BV for 4 loop, flip and lutz...they had different BVs before for a reason.
 

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Pathetic changes. Just don't blame corona-viruses when no-one starts watching this "sport".
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
yeah i don't know about all this...some of this is getting way too nitpicky.

i don't agree with giving a GOE deduction for jumps that are further around than the quarter mark but less than fully backward. that is SUPER nitpicky imo, and will be very hard in a lot of cases to determine...i mean, theres already so much controversy on whether or not jumps should be given carrots. they just made it even harder.

if they're going to add in rules and language about "prerotation" and "full blade takeoff" they need to be MUCH more specific. what does "excessive rotation" mean? at what degree does a skater's blade have to be? when they say "full blade", does that mean if a skater just puts their entire blade on the ice without any contact between the ice or toe pick, or does it mean if a skater plants their toe and then rocks back to "full blade"? :)palmf:...thats all i have to say about this rule)

i don't understand having the same BV for 4 loop, flip and lutz...they had different BVs before for a reason.

of course jumps should be given carrots, that is inarguable.
Agree with the "q"
 

surimi

Onward and forward, Sota!
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
One change I'd really like the ISU to implement, is to record the detailed video that's on the tech panel's screens. And then, if a skater wants to know why they were punished for something they felt was a cleanly done jump, the panel would have to provide the screenshots that show the UR or edge - either after the competition, or maybe this should be done backstage by a specially designated employee so that the competition could continue without delays.
Otherwise people are rightly afraid that deductions for something noone but the panel can see, will only become a tool to push down the scores of unfavored skaters.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
of course jumps should be given carrots, that is inarguable.
Agree with the "q"

sorry, i wasn't clear in my post and went back to edit it- i didn't mean jumps should not be given carrots, rather when they should be counted as cheated vs rotated.
 

lzxnl

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
I am so curious how they are going to judge the pre-rotation and how they define full blade. Will judges just ignore this as they've ignored other rules? Will Russia cause another hissy fit if their skaters are penalised for this? Will judges apply this selectively?

If this rule is actually applied the way I'd personally like it, we're in for a period of an insane amount of negative GOEs on toe jumps.
 

cathlen

Team Gorgeous Cacti!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 2, 2015
Country
Poland
I don't uderstand reasoning how if your performance in ID was worth 10, but made a serious error, you can still get 9.75. But if it was in range of 9.00-9.75 you can't get more than 8.75. So performance for 10.0 is punished only by 0.25 point, but performance for 9.75 is punished by the whole point? Doesn't seem very fair to me. Couldn't the just make rule that serious error must lower the component by 0.25 at least?
 
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