New ISU rules for the upcoming season | Page 2 | Golden Skate

New ISU rules for the upcoming season

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
yeah i don't know about all this...some of this is getting way too nitpicky.

i don't agree with giving a GOE deduction for jumps that are further around than the quarter mark but less than fully backward. that is SUPER nitpicky imo, and will be very hard in a lot of cases to determine...i mean, theres already so much controversy on when jumps should be given carrots. they just made it even harder.

if they're going to add in rules and language about "prerotation" and "full blade takeoff" they need to be MUCH more specific. what does "excessive rotation" mean? at what degree does a skater's blade have to be? when they say "full blade", does that mean if a skater just puts their entire blade on the ice without any contact between the ice or toe pick, or does it mean if a skater plants their toe and then rocks back to "full blade"? :)palmf:...thats all i have to say about this rule)

i don't understand having the same BV for 4 loop, flip and lutz...they had different BVs before for a reason.

I understood the q rule differently. That it’s not about jumps that are further around than 1/4, but those which are exactly on 1/4. I thought it means that the implementation of the previous rule, when jumps have >= 1/4 of underrotation are punished, was problematic, since judges would let go borderline cases. Hence, they made an intermediary category, that is if the jump is =1/4 under rotated, it gets a minus GOE.
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
I understood the q rule differently. That it’s not about jumps that are further around than 1/4, but those which are exactly on 1/4. I thought it means that the implementation of the previous rule, when jumps have >= 1/4 of underrotation are punished, was problematic, since judges would let go borderline cases. Hence, they made an intermediary category, that is if the jump is =1/4 under rotated, it gets a minus GOE.

Yes, a q call is for jumps that are exactly on the quarter (90 degrees). The -GOE deduction with no other penalty is for jumps that are between fully rotated and a q call (-1), and for jumps with a q call (-2); > with BV decrease is for jumps that are between 90 degrees and 180 degrees underrotated, and << with larger BV decrease is for anything more than 180 degrees underrotated, is how I understood it.
 

Supernovaimplosion

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Illusions also apparently aren't a difficult entry anymore? So RIP every bielman spin. You can also increase the level with a difficult exit. I'm interested to see what that means
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Yes, a q call is for jumps that are exactly on the quarter (90 degrees). The -GOE deduction with no other penalty is for jumps that are between fully rotated and a q call (-1), and for jumps with a q call (-2); > with BV decrease is for jumps that are between 90 degrees and 180 degrees underrotated, and << with larger BV decrease is for anything more than 180 degrees underrotated, is how I understood it.

Thanks for clarification! This probably means that 90% of the jumps would be getting -GOE then, lol.
 

renebaebae

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
On one hand I'm happy that the chronically uncalled flutzers will now be punished even though it's going to be with only a reduced BV. On the other hand I'm really sad that the people who have true lutz edges will also suffer A reduced BV. Hopefully the goe can reflect that buy who am I kidding.
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
Thanks for clarification! This probably means that 90% of the jumps would be getting -GOE then, lol.

Not necessarily. If the jump meets five bullet points but is between 0 and 90 degrees underrotated it could still get up to 4 GOE points.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Thanks for clarification! This probably means that 90% of the jumps would be getting -GOE then, lol.

All the negative and positive aspects are applied at the same time, so if there are positive aspects, they can outweigh the negative ones (that's not new).
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
All the negative and positive aspects are applied at the same time, so if there are positive aspects, they can outweigh the negative ones (that's not new).

But then the question is would it still qualify for a good landing bullet point? Because if that bullet point isn’t achieved, it can’t go higher than +2 (+1?)
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Wow, and some of us had thought ISU wouldn’t succumb to pressure from a particularly extreme and loud fanbase. Pretty disgusting. But I guess considering the world we live in right now, this is not that much of a surprise. Whatever to figure skating.
 

cohen-esque

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
The new “q” thing is pointless and unnecessarily convoluted, and sure to be abused.

.... And that’s my only criticism of these changes. I can’t believe it. I don’t believe they’ll really be applied, but... wow. Only one complaint.

Would anyone be able to explain the difference in scoring that the change to Flips/Lutzes will have? I don't know enough about the technical side of things, but assuming that ! and e calls still reduce base value/goe, is there a particular advantage/disadvantage to flips and lutzes being the same?
I see this as a net positive, tbh, or at least neutral. (I’m apparently in the minority). For one thing, it balances the difference across disciplines, in which more women struggle to do proper lutzes while more men struggle to do proper flips. Assigning one base value over the other ends up necessarily favouring one perspective over another, IMO. It also makes having awful sort of Scott Hamilton/Miki Ando/Shizuka Arawaka-level wrong edges on the flip, to the point where they basically just did lutzes, an equally serious mistake as it’s counterpart. Before now, given the higher lutz base value and the percentage GOE principles, then flutzes automatically resulted in a steeper loss of points for the exact same error.

Also for the quads, specifically, and sorta less so the triples, I’ve talked to skaters who think that the difficulty of jumping from the inside edge cleanly without slipping to get in additional revolutions for the flip makes the two jumps more and more comparable in difficulty as you add more revolutions.
 

Pantsu

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Judges should be obliged to choose the bullet points for jumps, not just +/- numbers. Otherwise it is all pointless
If anything they should count the amount of rotations in the air. Right now they are so focused on the URs, but almost no attention to the PRs
 

Elaine666

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 1, 2014
Interesting. Maybe the tech panel is getting tired of checking skaters' edge every comp so making everybody sit on the same boat seems to solve the problem lol. Value-wise, 4lo appreciating, 4f relatively appreciating because 4lz is depreciated. I probably would have given 4lo and 4f the same value, leaving 4lz 0.5 point higher.
 

Elspeth

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Wow, and some of us had thought ISU wouldn’t succumb to pressure from a particularly extreme and loud fanbase. Pretty disgusting. But I guess considering the world we live in right now, this is not that much of a surprise. Whatever to figure skating.

So everyone else had zero problems with the way jumps were/are being evaluated? That seems naive.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Guys, sincere question: can anyone please help pin point a communication where definition of ! is clearly written down. I don’t quite remember exactly, but I think when it was just introduced ! sign was for jumps with incorrect edge for a short amount of time or something like that, so it didn’t have a wording of a flat edge. But does it say ! means flat edge in some other communication that came later? Thanks for any information in advance!
 

Step Sequence4

JULLLIEEEEETTTT!
Final Flight
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
I understand the changes to Lo, F, Lz BV, there are actually quite a few people who find flip harder than Lutz, it's really mostly personal preference from what I've seen, and since there are so few 4Lo's I think that makes sense.

This whole q thing, oh no. Imo a jump landed at or within the quarter mark should be deemed fully rotated, and the calls of this are gonna be scary.
 
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