Visual Examples of an Element for a Range of GOEs | Golden Skate

Visual Examples of an Element for a Range of GOEs

SmallAminal

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Does anyone know of any resources that would SHOW an element (let's take 1A as an example) and show examples from -5 up to +5 GOE? Having some commentary about what qualities of the skill contribute to the GOE score would also be helpful.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Does anyone know of any resources that would SHOW an element (let's take 1A as an example) and show examples from -5 up to +5 GOE? Having some commentary about what qualities of the skill contribute to the GOE score would also be helpful.
Finding a 1A vid is hard, but I'll take a stab at 3A.
Hanyu 3A: +5. Height, distance, difficult entrance, difficult exit, effortless thoroughfare, and other bullet points. Maybe slight lean which would explain the odd +4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxQdmKpjA6I
Kolyada 3A: +4. High, strong, effortless thoroughfare, good distance, difficult entrance (bracket). Not sure if it would get this, but this is what I'm rating it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVcuSLMmfZw
Jason Brown 3A: +2 / +3. Strong nice jump, but telegraphed entrance distracts from it. - edit found one from practice which wasn't telegraphed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twXpxYPik_o ->this may be candidate for +4, but in competition it is telegraphed usually.
Sergei Voronov +1/+2. Strong, high, beautiful jump with the most telegraphed entrance. Longer than it takes to make cup of tea. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25OyNUgGwSk - this is not showing full telegraph, and actually this was one of his less telegraphed ones.
Base (0): Denis Vasilijevs. Not effortless, barely makes the rotation. Not bad, but not good: https://youtu.be/bm3Wl7GFduo?t=85
-1/-2. When denis Vasilijevs does a bad 3A and touches down: https://youtu.be/Ep0fNxhsnM8
-3/-4. Severe landing problems / step out: https://youtu.be/VQm7KL2RPnc?t=130
-5 fall: https://youtu.be/OfgfV5KWf6o?t=205

Will add videos at later date.
 

jersey1302

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Country
Canada
Does anyone know of any resources that would SHOW an element (let's take 1A as an example) and show examples from -5 up to +5 GOE? Having some commentary about what qualities of the skill contribute to the GOE score would also be helpful.

I kind of made a video on youtube (The Freeskate) showing GOE of Yuzuru and NAthan jumps a the GPF and judges GOE. It wont go as in dept as you want but...
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Are you looking for examples of non-elite skaters executing elements successfully but with lower quality than the best of the elites?

In that case, you'd be best off watching lower level competitions with a range of skill levels.

There are lots of different ways to get negative GOE especially on jumps, whether by starting with elite quality and then making a big error, or just starting from lower quality to begin with and maybe making one or more minor errors. There wouldn't be a single example of what "-5" or "-2" looks like, because different skaters might get the same scores for very different reasons.

But if you're looking for examples of what kind of scores might be given to successful elements, then the higher level the competition, the more positives you're likely to see, and the lower the competition level, the more 0s and minuses you're likely to see for landed jumps.

Check the protocols (from events for which you have access to videos) for examples of elements judges gave 4s and 5s to, then watch the videos to see what they saw.

Double axel is a good element to use because there are skaters attempting it at all levels from juvenile (or the equivalent in other countries) to senior elite.

To see elite skaters doing high-quality single axels, you'd probably have to go back to an earlier era. The 1976 Olympics short programs would be a good place to start because single axel was a required element in the SP that year.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Are you looking for examples of non-elite skaters executing elements successfully but with lower quality than the best of the elites?

In that case, you'd be best off watching lower level competitions with a range of skill levels.

There are lots of different ways to get negative GOE especially on jumps, whether by starting with elite quality and then making a big error, or just starting from lower quality to begin with and maybe making one or more minor errors. There wouldn't be a single example of what "-5" or "-2" looks like, because different skaters might get the same scores for very different reasons.

But if you're looking for examples of what kind of scores might be given to successful elements, then the higher level the competition, the more positives you're likely to see, and the lower the competition level, the more 0s and minuses you're likely to see for landed jumps.

Check the protocols (from events for which you have access to videos) for examples of elements judges gave 4s and 5s to, then watch the videos to see what they saw.

Double axel is a good element to use because there are skaters attempting it at all levels from juvenile (or the equivalent in other countries) to senior elite.

To see elite skaters doing high-quality single axels, you'd probably have to go back to an earlier era. The 1976 Olympics short programs would be a good place to start because single axel was a required element in the SP that year.

Also important to know that with non elite competitions the judging is a bit all over the place. They have different standards, and arent always reflective of what the skater would get at an elite competition.
 

SmallAminal

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
thanks everyone for the input. Yes, I'm realizing now my example of 1A would be hard to find - will check out the comparison of Nathan vs. Yuzuru.

This is more to help educate my skater (using visual references) about the various things that push the GOE up and down.

Skate Ontario (or maybe it was Skate Canada) had video guidance for single jumps at the STAR levels showing "Merit", "Bronze", "Silver", and "Gold" assessment ratings, and it was helpful, yet not all encompassing.

My skater had sat through a Zoom presentation on GOE but tends to consolidate information better when there is a visual to go with it.
 

1111bm

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Finding videos of single jumps isn't hard, there's tons of videos on youtube and you can see elite skaters doing single jumps all the time, either during warm-up or right before they start their program. I have a whole folder with a collection of random single jumps by different skaters, I could upload those if you're interested. But those are not jumps done during competition, so they lack certain characteristics that are important for GOE (steps before jump, matching the music, overall presentation/extension on the landing). They're also all jumps that are well done of course, and in order to find examples of mistakes or mediocre/bad execution, you'd have to check out videos of lower level competitions (again, there's a lot of it on youtube).

The real difficulty is to find someone who can give you a helpful analysis of those jumps in terms of GOE (or spins and steps for that matter). Ideally this should be a judge, who judges or has recently judged at competitions at the level that you're interested in i.e. which is relevant for your skater. But even then there's no guarantee, because as kolyadafan2002 said, judging is a bit all over the place with non elite competitions.
At my club we have a few coaches who judge at national competitions and/or smaller local ones, so they're exactly the kind of judges skaters from our club will be confronted with. So if I wanted to find out how GOE is judged at such a competition, I'd ask one of them.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Now to tackle 4T
+5 - preceding steps, nice height, effortless throughout (Yuzuru hanyu): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-8b6rddhK0
+4 - strongest 4T in the business. Difficult entrance and effortless (Nathan chen): https://youtu.be/7YbSNk2e_DE?t=184 - ignoring the combo, its a lovely jump but the landing posture takes me down to a +4 from a +5.
+3 - Gorgeous jump, but lean in air costed it a higher GOE (Javier fernandez): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GcbMU1y1aY
+2 - high, nice, strong. Needs to work on entrance and flailing arms a bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8YeUgHvsv8
+1 - nice, strong, high, powerful - kevin van der perren (also candidate for +2): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awz-RCPOpMU
0/-1 - technically alright, but lean and bad landing (Daisuke takahashi): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TS6qbcLd2U
-2 - high, but dodgy landing: https://youtu.be/SFuqfagJDjQ?t=43 (kurt browning)
-3/-4 (stephane lambiel) Nice technically, but landing huge disruption to performance: https://youtu.be/pwnqYkMRSyg?t=120
-4 (shoma uno). Bad landing, not great technique. not bad enough to deserve -5, but -4 is reasonable: https://youtu.be/aAmlOlXhTNg?t=102
-5 - I think you know where I'm going with this. also Shoma: https://youtu.be/6U1JeNnCYRI?t=83

P.S updated 3A post too
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Quad salchow:
+5 - javier fernandez - strong, stable, big, textbook, solid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhawilq41Tk
+4 - Yuzuru hanyu - stable, big, nice but Lean in the air takes from +5 for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ms8jDSlWTU
+3/+4 - boyang Jin. Massive, neat, beautiful 1 foot takeoff. improvements in landing speed take to defo +5: https://youtu.be/SyomxmuH79I?t=75
+3 - Nathan chen - textbook, perfect, love the 1 foot. The landing posture takes from +4/+5 to me, but can see why people would rate it: https://youtu.be/0EgvZi4WBeQ?t=186
+2 - Timothy Goebel - nice air position, big, fast. Takeoff posture could be improved and landing held: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOkBDqqkRfM
+1 - Zhang Min - neat/tidy jump, nothing special. Maybe candidate for +2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO6P04GVyjs
0 - very rare to find a 4S deserving no GOE change. Closest for me is Shoma Uno 4S: https://youtu.be/9MI4bvMha5E?t=28 - not very nice jump.
-1/-2 - https://youtu.be/Tu-O-m24nz4?t=175 - Hanyu - nice jump but turnout.
-3 - reasonable jump with not brilliant landing - Michal Brezina - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLfliL7gLMs
-4 - worse stepout from Brezina: https://youtu.be/BhzCmF9_Luo?t=64
-5 - demonstrated by Kolyada. Shame as was lovely jump: https://youtu.be/JKaYFSLqqwI?t=56
Bonus for predicting what -5 looks like before watching

Also I want to note that every skater has stronger jumps which get higher GOE than others. Nathan Chen tends to prefer toe jumps (I'd give him +5 on his quad flip any day), and Hanyu has a clear preference for salchow, toe and loop. Boyang seemingly prefers Lutz (not neccessarily toe in general), and Javi has the most stable 4S for me. Also note that the difference between +3 and +5 can be marginal, and down to the landing. Heck -3 to +5 can be due to landing.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Loop:
+5 - hanyu - nice jump. relatively straight in air, nice takeoff and landing: https://youtu.be/93X5tSUta3w?t=61
+3/+4 - Nathan Chen - nice jump shame about landing posture. textbook loop though straight rotation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SQCSx3eON0
+1/+2 - unknown - nice height and rotation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPJHfw--ZrM
0/+1 - Daniel Grassl 4Lo. One of his stronger jumps, but leans forwards too much on takeoff, ugly landing. I'd tend towards +1 : https://youtu.be/rXeenw8ERiE?t=71
0 - Brandon Mroz - not a nice take off for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLmvs-swJEM
-1/-2 - Shoma uno - really not an aesthetically pleasing jump for me, but not bad enough for lower GOE than this. lean in rotation, horrible landing: https://youtu.be/5d4nN-N1Ft0?t=53 - IMO I can't see why the judges gave it +'s.
-3/-4 - Hanyu - no explanation needed: https://youtu.be/PdIMqm_Trpg?t=61
-5 - predictable - shoma uno - https://youtu.be/PerGGmu5WKs?t=42

I'm not going to bother with Flip and Lutz as then it'll turn into a prerotation debate.
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Does anyone know of any resources that would SHOW an element (let's take 1A as an example) and show examples from -5 up to +5 GOE? Having some commentary about what qualities of the skill contribute to the GOE score would also be helpful.

This is what the ISU put out:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jN4RFeiuGn8&list=PLy_AwAxMHPKpJXt8XrBldxPnBX-xJt7C7&index=2&t=0s

The ISU also did a DVD series on components that a few people have put up on YouTube. Although it is old and is for components, not GOE per se, I think they’re still relevant. Here is the playlist for performance / execution with examples of good, average, and poor:

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE2F916B22804D190

The same poster has posted playlists for other components - again, these are old, but I still think they’re useful.
 
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