Next technical Achievement - Quad Axel | Golden Skate

Next technical Achievement - Quad Axel

ParadiceSport

Rinkside
Joined
May 21, 2020
What do you think is the next technical Achievement in figure skating? My personal opinion is that it will be quad Axel. It will be made by someone who is short, light, has fast rotational speed and jumps at around 6o-80 cm height. :shocked:

What do you think about that ?
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
What do you think is the next technical Achievement in figure skating? My personal opinion is that it will be quad Axel. It will be made by someone who is short, light, has fast rotational speed and jumps at around 6o-80 cm height. :shocked:

What do you think about that ?

I personally think 3A+4T or 4x+4T given Shoma has landed 3A quad combo in practice and attempted in competition.

If they allowed 4x+4x in SP this would incentivise this change quicker.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I haven't seen any attempts that make me think someone will land it in competition any time soon. Yuzuru, who might have the perfect physical build and technique to accomplish it, tried some 4As in practice that looked pretty close to being within 1/4 short. But you'd have to land it many times in practice before putting it into a competitive program, and we haven't yet seen a successful attempt in training.
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
I haven't seen any attempts that make me think someone will land it in competition any time soon. Yuzuru, who might have the perfect physical build and technique to accomplish it, tried some 4As in practice that looked pretty close to being within 1/4 short. But you'd have to land it many times in practice before putting it into a competitive program, and we haven't yet seen a successful attempt in training.

Well, part of that is because footage of Yuzuru training is like gold dust... despite the efforts of fans that would impress professional spies, it tends to be rare and/or fuzzy glimpses unless we get a media day which I am not expecting this year:cry: Several people have reported seeing him do it, they all seem to be somewhere between agog that it's being done at all and agog at how scary it looks: I know Tracey mentioned the latter. But no, especially after the layoff I don't expect it quickly.

I admit, I swither a lot - I want it for him because he wants and deserves it (and because it will be amazing and gorgeous if he even gets it to half of what he deems adequate) but I will be too terrified to watch when it happens, and also it's the last big thing on his absolute to-do list...

More generally, I really think there's a good chance that there won't be any major technical 'firsts' for a large part of the season, as they all get back into the swing of things and live with the restrictions and uncertainties. Things may even go a bit backward....
 

brakes

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
When I'm seeing phenom like Yuzuru still unable to execute it and maybe even greatet phenom jumping-wise Nathan not even trying it, I'm doubtful if we're gonna see it in upcoming years.

If they invent some uber-light boots or the competition between men becomes huge (like dozens of successful multiquadsters), then maybe mass-efect of people training it results in somebody actually landing it.
 

Dr Flutz

Match Penalty
Joined
May 26, 2020
Trusova has said during a TV1 interview that she (admitted to previously saying that she) wants to try a quintuple.

Professionals have commentated on the height of Valieva's quad, and said there is room for one more rotation.

V. Zhilina jumps quads at a much younger age. She has time to try to fit in one more rotation, or half for a quad axel.

Valieva wants to jump TRIPLE axel, not quad axel. It's more likely she will try 5T before 4A.

I forget who said it, but it was someone from Sambo 70 Team Tutberidze, who said that a quad is easier than 3A.

Trusova might try a quint in practice, probably with a harness ("fishing rod") first, if she feels like it's worth the challenge, but...
who knows if/when she might try it.

If I was to bet money, I see one of the ladies, and most likely Valieva, with a 5T, before anyone else, either ladies or men, lands a 4A.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Trusova has said during a TV1 interview that she (admitted to previously saying that she) wants to try a quintuple.

Professionals have commentated on the height of Valieva's quad, and said there is room for one more rotation.

V. Zhilina jumps quads at a much younger age. She has time to try to fit in one more rotation, or half for a quad axel.

Valieva wants to jump TRIPLE axel, not quad axel. It's more likely she will try 5T before 4A.

I forget who said it, but it was someone from Sambo 70 Team Tutberidze, who said that a quad is easier than 3A.

Trusova might try a quint in practice, probably with a harness ("fishing rod") first, if she feels like it's worth the challenge, but...
who knows if/when she might try it.

If I was to bet money, I see one of the ladies, and most likely Valieva, with a 5T, before anyone else, either ladies or men, lands a 4A.

I really wouldn't want to see that. Injuries already ended the careers of most top ladies skaters who were just doing the triples through the lutz.
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
I'd rather see a new technical achievement in jumping that's not just about more rotations, more height, more whatever, but doing something unexpected and creative and technically challenging in a different way: for example, a 3Lz+2Lz or 3Lz+3Lz combination rotating the two jumps in opposite directions, with the landing edge of the first Lutz becoming the counterrotated takeoff edge of the second. Or somebody making a feature out of a difficult non-listed jump like a double walley, or making the landing of a listed jump the immediate entrance to a spin...
 

eterislouisvuitton

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Trusova has said during a TV1 interview that she (admitted to previously saying that she) wants to try a quintuple.

Professionals have commentated on the height of Valieva's quad, and said there is room for one more rotation.

V. Zhilina jumps quads at a much younger age. She has time to try to fit in one more rotation, or half for a quad axel.

Valieva wants to jump TRIPLE axel, not quad axel. It's more likely she will try 5T before 4A.

I forget who said it, but it was someone from Sambo 70 Team Tutberidze, who said that a quad is easier than 3A.

Trusova might try a quint in practice, probably with a harness ("fishing rod") first, if she feels like it's worth the challenge, but...
who knows if/when she might try it.

If I was to bet money, I see one of the ladies, and most likely Valieva, with a 5T, before anyone else, either ladies or men, lands a 4A.

Sasha is my favorite but I am extremely worried about her just from the number of quads she is doing, especially during growth. She's very ambitious and 5T could put back her progress in PCS. However I can see her going for a 4Lo, so for ladies she and Young You could be groundbreakers. I'm rooting for Sasha, the ultimate quad queen.

However in the next year or so before puberty comes, I can see it with Valieva possibly. I think she is incredible. I think Sasha's 4T is better but she has less time now. Let's be real, it's yet to be seen if quads can be consistently done in a woman's body. Much less quints.

This season we saw Sasha and many men doing 4x+eu+3S combos, Nathan did 4x+eu+3F I could see that becoming 4x+eu+4S, or maybe 4x+3A.

I think that the 3A+4T or 4x+4T will come first, someone like Shoma or Keegan Messing would be perfect. Yuzu's 4A and Kamila's and Nika Z's 5T are next.

There were rumors that Danya Samsonov has tried quints, although his technique reminds me of Ilia Skirda's and not in a good way. Yuzu said in an interview that he sees a lot of groundbreaking technical potential in Stephen Gogolev, and I fully believe that had his coaching team (Orser wouldn't have but someone like Eteri on the other hand) capitalized on his pre growth spurt time with his perfect strength to weight ratio, his muscles were not lagging behind the rest of his body, around JGPF 2018 he would've pulled off a 5S. He still has a beautiful 4S despite growing like 12 cm so keep an eye out for when the skating world lets him be done growing and missing half the season through foot injuries.

Seriously though Sofia Titova has a 3A at TEN, her and Anastasia Marasanova have consistent 3Lz+3T, and an 8 year old formerly with Eteri, Elena Kostyleva, did a 3Lz+3T. Sometimes I have to put this into gymnastics terms and think of it as an 8 year old having a Mukhina on floor. There is a lot of growth to go but I do'nt believe it will be long until a 4A, 3A+4T, 4x+4T, 4x+3A, or quint attempt is seen.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
When I'm seeing phenom like Yuzuru still unable to execute it and maybe even greatet phenom jumping-wise Nathan not even trying it, I'm doubtful if we're gonna see it in upcoming years.

If they invent some uber-light boots or the competition between men becomes huge (like dozens of successful multiquadsters), then maybe mass-efect of people training it results in somebody actually landing it.

Uber light boots already exist and have for some time now.
 

denise3lz

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Country
Japan
Did someone ever attempted 2A+3S in competition ?
I've seen Jill Trenary landing 1A+3S several times about 3 decades ago.

And Artur Dmitriev landed 3Lz+3F in 2018. Will someone follow it ?
 

YuBluByMe

May Rika spin her hair into GOLD….in 2026.
Final Flight
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Next technical achievement? I long to see a man do a layback spin topped off with a beautiful Biellmann. No, no, not in combination. A straight up LSp. A man is not allowed in the SP, but it can be done in the free skate. I want it it to beautiful, natural, and fast. Do it properly or don’t do it at all.

Come on, Brown. MAKE MY DAY!
 

Skuratov

On the Ice
Joined
May 30, 2019
Trusova has said during a TV1 interview that she (admitted to previously saying that she) wants to try a quintuple.

Professionals have commentated on the height of Valieva's quad, and said there is room for one more rotation.

V. Zhilina jumps quads at a much younger age. She has time to try to fit in one more rotation, or half for a quad axel.

Valieva wants to jump TRIPLE axel, not quad axel. It's more likely she will try 5T before 4A.

I forget who said it, but it was someone from Sambo 70 Team Tutberidze, who said that a quad is easier than 3A.

Trusova might try a quint in practice, probably with a harness ("fishing rod") first, if she feels like it's worth the challenge, but...
who knows if/when she might try it.

If I was to bet money, I see one of the ladies, and most likely Valieva, with a 5T, before anyone else, either ladies or men, lands a 4A.

Watch Sasha's FS at Japan Open 2019. Her 4T-3S was close to being a 5T-3S. Or watch her EX-Galas in her last Junior season, doing 4T-Eu-3S-Eu-3S-Eu-3S.
Kamila is very fragile, 2 seasons with Eteri, 2 serious injuries. Jumping is not her strengh. Sasha...everybody calls her "Jumping bean". Zhilina is Trusova 2.0 maybe she will be the first lady who lands a quint jump.
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Watch Sasha's FS at Japan Open 2019. Her 4T-3S was close to being a 5T-3S. Or watch her EX-Galas in her last Junior season, doing 4T-Eu-3S-Eu-3S-Eu-3S.
Kamila is very fragile, 2 seasons with Eteri, 2 serious injuries. Jumping is not her strengh. Sasha...everybody calls her "Jumping bean". Zhilina is Trusova 2.0 maybe she will be the first lady who lands a quint jump.

I'm not a conspiracy man (he-he) but looks like Trusova will try neither quint, nor any other limit pusher anymore.
IDK why the TTfP and FFKKR decided to phase her out. Were it was based on her mediocre season or that "wood doll" nickname her haters overused or whatever.
TTfP is the only place where Sasha could reach starts. Now this is not an option anymore and I see no other harbour...
 

Dr Flutz

Match Penalty
Joined
May 26, 2020
Watch Sasha's FS at Japan Open 2019. Her 4T-3S was close to being a 5T-3S.

Thank you @Skuratov for pointing out that program, as I had not seen it before. Still, the meaning of your comment is not clear to me. How can one do a 4T and have it be close to 5T, yet land it successfully? I don't see how a quint can happen as "almost" or "accidentally" from any jump as a full extra rotation is required. Likewise, in response to @eterisluisvuitton, how would a 4x+3A work? Land backwards to do an axel which requires forward takeoff? I can see 4A+3x possible (but unlikely), but not 4x+3A. 4A+2x certainly, but let's first see one of the ladies land just a single 4A -- or a quint of any kind.

I don't think Valieva wants to or needs to try quints. I agree she should not. Too much risk vs return to someone who is already arguably the best skater ever in all age classes. But she could if she wanted to and maybe she will try in the next two years or so, but I'd prefer she stick to quads and 3A.

Trusova has already expressed her desire to try quints. She did not specify training or competition, and so far it is just words, but I am sure one day she will try in practice session if Plushenko team agrees to it (and as Plushenko has said recently, he may say again regarding quints: why not).
Trusova is the most athletic skater with highest technical element skills ever. She is most likely to want to try to push the envelope. Valieva, should she want to try quints, would likely have the best chance to succeed the fastest, but I don't expect nor want her to try it. (And I won't say: "today", for obvious reasons).

While
Trusova is likely to grow stronger and stronger with her muscle training over the next some (hopefully, many) years, nobody knows exactly how she will grow over the next years, but then again, her being the most athletic skater today, I hope and wish her a long and successful career. Daniil's practice video showed that (as far as a practice session can show) Sasha was ready (!) for the "Worlds at Montreal" with five quads all landed in practice (albeit with a small mistake on one, as far as I can recall).

I do not see 4x+4x combos as anything we are likely to see before a single 4A or a quint attempt. But a quint is going to happen, at least in a practice session in the next two years. And my guess is it will be done by a Russian lady before a man, with my best guesses, in order of likelihood being that the first to land one or the other is: 1) Trusova, 2) Valieva, 3) Zhilina

 

Dr Flutz

Match Penalty
Joined
May 26, 2020
@Arbitrary I prefer to keep on topic, it being "next tech element" but cannot see your point. Why should Trusova not find her next level with Plushenko? He wants to prove himself, his team and build what Eteri has and he has cache and money. I loved the Eteri Team and still do, but I want to see a great rivalry with two teams of great skaters pushing to beat the other team. Trust me, Sasha will win again, and in time, Zhilina too.

Who gets OG is not yet at all a given, even if I believe it will be Kamila of TT.

To somewhat stay on topic here, we may even see a new element from
Trusova in the Olympics, should she get one of the spots.
If Daniil's instagram video is of any indication of her potential TES, she may well indeed do a 4A or 5x, although far more likely five quints as in the video.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Watch Sasha's FS at Japan Open 2019. Her 4T-3S was close to being a 5T-3S.

I do not see 4x+4x combos as anything we are likely to see before a single 4A or a quint attempt.

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No, her 4T3S was not close to it at all. It was a 4T3S. That's all. It was a nice jump, but nowhere close to a 5T.

In terms of 4x-4x why di you say that? Shoma has landed 3A+4T, and fully rotated in competition. Nathan chen has been said to be able to do 4T+4T on practice, Yuzuru Hanyu has landed 4S+eu+4S. They can all do them, just no incentive currently to train them properly.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
In terms of 4x-4x why di you say that? Shoma has landed 3A+4T, and fully rotated in competition. Nathan chen has been said to be able to do 4T+4T on practice, Yuzuru Hanyu has landed 4S+eu+4S. They can all do them, just no incentive currently to train them properly.

Proof?
 

Dr Flutz

Match Penalty
Joined
May 26, 2020
In terms of 4x-4x why di you say that? Shoma has landed 3A+4T, and fully rotated in competition. Nathan chen has been said to be able to do 4T+4T on practice, Yuzuru Hanyu has landed 4S+eu+4S. They can all do them, just no incentive currently to train them properly.

Obviously because you need speed to gain the necessary height to revolve a quad, and when landing a jump, most speed has been lost even if the first jump is executed so perfectly as to retain as much momentum as possible. With an Euler, you can get necessary pre-rotation momentum for a second quad but a pure quad-quad is far more difficult to execute. If Nathan Chen can do this, in competition, obviously, and successfully, then good for him.
 

ParadiceSport

Rinkside
Joined
May 21, 2020
Let's assume someone will make quad Axel. This takes huge amount of energy. and base value is not that crazy for quad axel. Some values need to be adjusted in my personal opinion.
 
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