Next technical Achievement - Quad Axel | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Next technical Achievement - Quad Axel

eterislouisvuitton

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
I know everyone will be like WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS PERSON OR THAT PERSON but let's just be real here: being short and having a certain physique is extremely advantageous in sports like figure skating and gymnastics. There are exceptions of course, and there are things that tall people can do that short people will never be able to, but for jumps it is the reality. You don't see the 180cm+ or 165cm+ ladies doing the things theire more petite counterparts are doing.

And it's a shame that many quit because of their height, I am a gymnast at 165cm and I know that my time in the sport is coming to a close, and many know that it's better to just move on which is why we see a crop of girls/boys with a certain physique make it to the top in the first place. And while Alexandra Trusova and Anna Shcherbakova have different physiques, one relying on strength to weight ratio and the other purely on being light, it's the sad reality of physics.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
I know everyone will be like WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS PERSON OR THAT PERSON but let's just be real here: being short and having a certain physique is extremely advantageous in sports like figure skating and gymnastics. There are exceptions of course, and there are things that tall people can do that short people will never be able to, but for jumps it is the reality. You don't see the 180cm+ or 165cm+ ladies doing the things theire more petite counterparts are doing.

And it's a shame that many quit because of their height, I am a gymnast at 165cm and I know that my time in the sport is coming to a close, and many know that it's better to just move on which is why we see a crop of girls/boys with a certain physique make it to the top in the first place. And while Alexandra Trusova and Anna Shcherbakova have different physiques, one relying on strength to weight ratio and the other purely on being light, it's the sad reality of physics.

Thanks for posting. I hope you have a great next phase of your life!
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
It has been advantageous to have a lutz in ladies skating for a very long time, at least since 1991. If everyone who did triples could do the lutz, we'd have seen every woman do it in the SP under 6.0, and yet it was mostly top contenders who attempted it.

Anyhow, my point was that there are (unfortunately) certain physical builds that lend themselves to performing difficult jumps. I say unfortunately because we now know how many skaters struggle with eating disorders just so they can optimize their bodies for the task, at the expense of their physical and mental wellbeing.

The problem is mentally.
Lutz is not physically harder than toeloop if you have good technique.


If you jump these jumps with he same technique of short people, of course it's hard. But if you use height to your advantage like Plushenko (think levers) then you get good technique for tall people.
If you use muscles to your advantage (tonya and Midori) then you dont need to be stick thin.
The skaters who starve them selves (e.g Julia lipnitskier) tend to have really short careers. The skaters who are naturally thin (e.g hanyu) have good genetics. But that doesn't mean non-thin skaters wont make it with the right technique, because they could.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Lutz is not physically harder than toeloop if you have good technique.

It is much harder. A proper lutz will have less prerotation than a proper toe loop, which most skaters prerotate a full 180 degrees. It's hard to stay on the outside edge because your rotation has to move in the direction opposite of your momentum.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
It is much harder. A proper lutz will have less prerotation than a proper toe loop, which most skaters prerotate a full 180 degrees. It's hard to stay on the outside edge because your rotation has to move in the direction opposite of your momentum.

If you have learnt good technique for single and double then the outside edge isn't even a conscious decision in triple.
I've met couple skaters who can do 3Lz (proper minimal prerotation) but struggle with 3T.

0.25 revolutions on top of 2.5 is attainable for any skater who works hard enough.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Spend a few years coaching novice girls working hard to master their triples, and then come back and tell us how many of the hard workers were able to get and keep triple lutz vs. triple toe and salchow as their bodies matured.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Spend a few years coaching novice girls working hard to master their triples, and then come back and tell us how many of the hard workers were able to get and keep triple lutz vs. triple toe and salchow as their bodies matured.

Sorry, should have specified specifically male. That being said a few girls also learn lutz before salchow. Some coaches "put into peoples heads" that lutz is much harder than toe/salchow, and that there is a specific order to Learn jumps. I personally dont teach that certain jumps are harder than others, but think it's best to let skates learn whichever single they are most comfortable with as their first double (more often than not loop), and whichever double as triple (some choose salchow, some choose flip, some toe, some loop, some lutz - hard to predict).
 
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