2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

TallyT said:

The thing was, from an outsider's point of view, not that the coach wasn't part of the equation but that the coach became the major element of the equation: it sometimes appears (especially during the Medvedeva kerfuffle and then Trusova's less fraught exit stage left) that a number of fans have elevated Tutberidze as the star and idol above her pupils and for those fans, the skaters' duty is to burnish her place in their pantheon. Which annoys the c*** out of people who believe coaches are there to do the burnishing thank you very much and it's mainly, even only, the one out there on the ice under all the hungry eyes who matters.

Me, I think neither is extreme is right, and the middle path is probably best. Tutberidze deserves lot of admiration and kudos as does three-OGM Brian, as do other coaches. As will Plushy if he does good by Trusova. But when the skaters begin to blur in the public gaze and just become #TeamWhatever, they are more than entitled to not care for it very much.

After all, in the history books, it will be Zagitova and Hanyu and Virtue/Moir and Dick Button and Plushenko-the-skater who will be inscribed most brilliantly, not Tutberidze and Orser and Marie-France Dubreuil and Gustave Lussi and Plushenko-the-coach, and that is IMHO as it should be.

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It's not only Eteri's status and it is not new phenomenon. Names like Mishin, Tarasova, Moskvina, Morozov are known sometimes more than their pupils. With Eteri it probably just got more international recognition. Once again I will use the czech TV commentators an example. They often do not speak much about particular skaters but about Eteri's team (mostly not in a very positive way, like "another member of the Eteri's hatchery" etc. ). And when you mentioned Moir, I can't forget how precisely him spoke about Alina as "that russian girl who is only jumping".

As for me particularly, I admit that I am strongly influenced by my way from a person with zero knowledge about the sport to a devoted fan. At the beginning I saw some performances by chance and later, when the interest started to grow, I've noticed that all the skaters, that catched my attention, were coming from one team. And, as a paradox, I can say that when I started to learn more about the sport, skaters, rules and coaches, I believed the negative comments about Eteri and had a negative opinions about her and only as I've learned more to the moment when I started to make my own conclusions, I've changed my mind Whether it's the recognizable style or the technical perfection it's not important now, but I liked what they did more that what the others did and made me a fan of them all

Still, even if I am a fan of the team (no reason to deny that ), that doesn't mean I don't recognize the skaters as individuals and don't have my preferences about them. Though it is sometimes hard to choose. That also doesn't mean I don't root for skaters who are not part of the team anymore. I still support Nastya Tarakanova, I wished all the best to Panenkova etc. and I don't think that people who went to competitions with banners using the abbreviation 3A or something similar that they were or wanted to be insensitive. As I have said, it is sometimes hard to choose the favorite among them. I can't speak for others but for me, when I talked about them all together, it was more because I didn't want to leave some of them less noticed than the others

Amei said:

Agree, I don't think there was anything intentionally disrespectful or malicious about the nickname when it was originally created/coined for the 3 skaters but at this point at least 1 skater* of that nickname has stated they don't like it, to continue to use it at least in reference to that skater would now be disrespectful to do.


*I don't remember if Trusova or Kostornaia have previously stated they don't like the nickname.

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Agreed, but at this moment I don't see it being used anymore, so I don't understand the sudden conquest. As it is said "the generals always fight the previous war"

I didn't know Yao Bin, Virtie Moir, Orser etc. were Russian figure skating ladies in 2020-2021.

Fool said:

I didn't know Yao Bin, Virtie Moir, Orser etc. were Russian figure skating ladies in 2020-2021.

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You don't know Brian Ernestovich Orserov? He is well recognized and honoured russian coach

flanker said:

You don't know Brian Ernestovich Orserov? He is well recognized and honoured russian coach

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Wouldn’t it have to be Orserova to be relevant for this thread mate:confused2:

Why is Orser irrelevant? He coaches Medvedeva. It's why I think he could end up famous in Russia.

Skatesocs said:

Why is Orser irrelevant? He coaches Medvedeva. It's why I think he could end up famous in Russia.

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Do not take it seriously, we do not want to ridicule him. Although I'm not that much into what his skaters do, I absolutely do not deny he is very succesful and relevant coach with a big impact to the sport. it was just a joke with nothing more hidden in it.

flanker said:

Do not take it seriously, we do not want to ridicule him. Although I'm not that much into what his skaters do, I absolutely do not deny he is very succesful and relevant coach with a big impact to the sport. it was just a joke with nothing more hidden in it.

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Lol I'm fine with jokes, I just wasn't sure why Orser at least wasn't relevant. Yao Bin and V/M made sense.

Let call those girls according to The Handmaid's Tale.

OfOrser,
OfTutberidze,
OfPluschenko...

TallyT said:

The thing was, from an outsider's point of view, not that the coach wasn't part of the equation but that the coach became the major element of the equation: it sometimes appears (especially during the Medvedeva kerfuffle and then Trusova's less fraught exit stage left) that a number of fans have elevated Tutberidze as the star and idol above her pupils and for those fans, the skaters' duty is to burnish her place in their pantheon. Which annoys the c*** out of people who believe coaches are there to do the burnishing thank you very much and it's mainly, even only, the one out there on the ice under all the hungry eyes who matters.

Me, I think neither is extreme is right, and the middle path is probably best. Tutberidze deserves lot of admiration and kudos as does three-OGM Brian, as do other coaches. As will Plushy if he does good by Trusova. But when the skaters begin to blur in the public gaze and just become #TeamWhatever, they are more than entitled to not care for it very much.

After all, in the history books, it will be Zagitova and Hanyu and Virtue/Moir and Dick Button and Plushenko-the-skater who will be inscribed most brilliantly, not Tutberidze and Orser and Marie-France Dubreuil and Gustave Lussi and Plushenko-the-coach, and that is IMHO as it should be.

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You are overreacting to a certain coach being given too much fame and credit. The skaters who get the job done and win the medals get the credit or in this case of 3A the Lionesses share of the credit. The coach gets secondary credit and that's fine. I think because there's been so much positive and negative publicity about EG in the past few years that her persona seems bigger than it actually is. Although I must say it is unique to see the great coach signing autographs from time to time.

Scott512 said:

You are overreacting to a certain coach being given too much fame and credit. The skaters who get the job done and win the medals get the credit or in this case of 3A the Lionesses share of the credit. The coach gets secondary credit and that's fine. I think because there's been so much positive and negative publicity about EG in the past few years that her persona seems bigger than it actually is. Although I must say it is unique to see the great coach signing autographs from time to time.

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And posing for pictures with fans

flanker said:

And posing for pictures with fans

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In Brian's case, he was quite famous before he ever began coaching. He was the National Champion of Canada for years as well as World Champion and an Olympic Silver Medalist in the infamous Battle of the Brian's. I would certainly ask for his autograph if I were to meet him in person. Of course, I'd run across an arena to get Med's autograph too.

IMO.......Plushy is the King!

TallyT said:

The thing was, from an outsider's point of view, not that the coach wasn't part of the equation but that the coach became the major element of the equation: it sometimes appears (especially during the Medvedeva kerfuffle and then Trusova's less fraught exit stage left) that a number of fans have elevated Tutberidze as the star and idol above her pupils and for those fans, the skaters' duty is to burnish her place in their pantheon. Which annoys the c*** out of people who believe coaches are there to do the burnishing thank you very much and it's mainly, even only, the one out there on the ice under all the hungry eyes who matters.

Me, I think neither is extreme is right, and the middle path is probably best. Tutberidze deserves lot of admiration and kudos as does three-OGM Brian, as do other coaches. As will Plushy if he does good by Trusova. But when the skaters begin to blur in the public gaze and just become #TeamWhatever, they are more than entitled to not care for it very much.

After all, in the history books, it will be Zagitova and Hanyu and Virtue/Moir and Dick Button and Plushenko-the-skater who will be inscribed most brilliantly, not Tutberidze and Orser and Marie-France Dubreuil and Gustave Lussi and Plushenko-the-coach, and that is IMHO as it should be.

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Tutberidze is the major element. Eteri is the star and she is above her pupils. Rightfully so, she takes skaters to improve and to win
It was a long road to success for her, she deserves all the praise
You can remove all her top skaters tomorrow and in a few years her new stars will dominate the field
It is not about coaching one or two great talented athletes

Fried said:

Exactly. One should differentiate between coaching discussion and hero worship. At which competition was that again when Eteri, herself amazed at the calls from the ranks, said to her skater who had just come off the ice "You win and I am cheered"? Basically, it gets to the point.

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She was cheered at Skate America. I wanted to scream “Eteri will you marry me?!?!” but I was with my husband and he would have been mortified! Lol. Eteri is a rock star.

Those that feel the focus should be on Eteri and Team Eteri for progress can believe what you’d like.

But now we have all 3 of the “3A” that have gone on record saying they dislike it. They are each individuals and they feel fans could at least write their names (according to Anna’s parents). They stress that they each have their own personality, yet have we ever really seen that from the girls? The focus has really always been on the team. Perhaps that’s their own manager, coach and marketing though.

Skating truly has never been a team sport, and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

Thrashergurl said:

They stress that they each have their own personality, yet have we ever really seen that from the girls?

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Have we seen distinct personalities from Aliona, Anna and Alexandra? Yes. Definitely. Reading their interviews alone shows that, they‘re totally different people, they‘re individuals. It shows through in the way they speak and act and skate.

Are they being marketed as a team, though? Yes. Definitely. I don‘t really remember the media ever picking up a fan term other than Queen Yuna but here we had “the 3A“ being mentioned more often than not last season. Did their team support that with the whole “TeamTutberidzeForWhatever“ stuff? Of course. I still do think that they tried to give each girl programs fitting their own individual strengths and interests. But the overall media representation was definitely more on the team than on the girls as individuals.

That this wasn‘t going to work forever, that eventually one of the three would have had enough of it, was as clear as day. And it happened.

Aliona has expressed her dislike of the nickname, Anna‘s parents in the name of Anna. They want to be individuals. Alright, fans of the girls will note that and try not to call them the 3A anymore. That‘s it. I don‘t think it‘s a huge drama and I don‘t think anyone meant harm when they called them the 3A before.

Now, the phenomenon that a coach overshadows their skaters is a new one in skating, at least I can‘t remember it. But I do think that‘s something that‘s slowly happening with Eteri and I think it‘s openly supported by them promoting the whole “TeamTutberidze“ stuff. I mean, look back at Russian Nationals and test skates and people screaming: “Eteri Georgievna, you‘re amazing!!“ Not Aliona/Sasha/Alina/Anna. But specifically, the coach. Notice how she has more followers on social media than Anna and Aliona. Being a Tutberidze skater has become a status, that‘s how people immediately recognize new talent: “Ah, she‘s one of Tutberidze‘s.“

Given the medals her skaters have won in the last few years, it‘s probably a natural consequence. She‘s utterly dominated the ladies figure skating scene. Now, what I‘m asking myself, though, is how that relates to the judging. Obviously, judges are humans too and who says they don‘t react the same ways fans do, at least to a certain degree? That they‘ve got an immediate opinion formed of a skater, based on who the coach is. Even if it‘s unconsciously. If a coach overshadows their skaters, if they reach this kind of star status, this might just be the consequence. And it would explain some of the very high scores Eteri girls get right of the bat. Mostly it‘s not a problem because they deserve them. But sometimes, imo, the judges go overboard just on the basis of the skater in front of them being from Eteri‘s team. I think this can - and already has - become a problem.

That‘s just my interpretation, though, others are free to disagree. But all the comments made me think.

I think Alexandra, Aliona and Anna have all shown their personalities. I can't see Anna skating to Alexandra or Aliona's music. Anna's music is more generic and it would have suited the other two (Alexandra could definitely have skated to the Firebird). Also their costuming is different and I think that reflects their personalities also. The younger junior ladies are still developing their on ice personas but I think Kamila has her own look and sensibility.

I am not the biggest fan of Daniil's choreography but I believe he is growing. I do, however, feel like these young ladies should work with a variety of choreographers because it encourages artistic growth. Different choreographers will challenge different parts of your self to be exposed on the ice. Even Carolina worked with people other than Lori. I would think having Daniil do one program and someone else do the other would be useful. Just to get more input.

Anyway.. I wonder if the Russians will do some kind of internal fall competition if the GP season is cancelled and travel is problematic. Skating gets good ratings in Russia, right? I'm sure a network could be persuaded to back it if they could be sure the competition would strong.

Pantsu said:

Tutberidze is the major element. Eteri is the star and she is above her pupils. Rightfully so, she takes skaters to improve and to win
It was a long road to success for her, she deserves all the praise
You can remove all her top skaters tomorrow and in a few years her new stars will dominate the field
It is not about coaching one or two great talented athletes

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You really believe that? Because most of her students seem to struggle, not improving. They win in a weak field, but she had only 2 world champions- Medvedeva and Zagitova. She might be good with junior skaters, or should i say girls, but that's about it. Where are her male champions?
Do you know that Orser has world medalists, BOTH male and female, for 10 seasons now?
And i really don't think her students will still "dominate" in a few years. They don't even really dominate now, it's just a perception. You all behave as if she had 10 top students, but in reality she has as much as any other coach. Right now she has only Alena and Anna and these two girls aren't really better than, let's say Kihira. What the judges do is another story.

Gabby30 said:

You really believe that? Because most of her students seem to struggle, not improving. They win in a weak field, but she had only 2 world champions- Medvedeva and Zagitova. She might be good with junior skaters, or should i say girls, but that's about it. Where are her male champions?
Do you know that Orser has world medalists, BOTH male and female, for 10 seasons now?
And i really don't think her students will still "dominate" in a few years. They don't even really dominate now, it's just a perception. You all behave as if she had 10 top students, but in reality she has as much as any other coach. Right now she has only Alena and Anna and these two girls aren't really better than, let's say Kihira. What the judges do is another story.

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Orser takes made skaters and helps them. Eteri makes skaters. Big difference. Brian takes made skaters from other countries and helps them get even better. Give him credit for that and his long and distinguished coaching career. But he doesn't do what EG does. She has helped figure skating grow exponentially in Russia. Orser cannot say the same about his homeland.

And Anna and aliona are better than Rika who makes a lot more mistakes than they do and hasn't won anything significant since Grand Prix 2018 when Alina got hurt. She may have won anyway but Alina getting injured made that a certainty. What happened to Rika at her only World Championships and last year's Grand Prix final? She didn't seem the samel. I don't know if it's the pressure or what but she just didn't seem the same to me as the season before.

At this point I just hope we have an upcoming season so we can see who does what and where the dust settles. It would be terrible if they didn't have a season. But life is more precious and that comes first.

And no, Eteri is not "dominating" the sport for "years". That's again perception. In 2013/ 14 season she had Yulia. No olympic medals in singles, only a silver medal at worlds. In the 2014/15 season she didn't had any successful senior skaters. Them came Medvedeva, that was about it. The olympic season, Medvedeva slowly faded away, Zagitova was the star. No world medal in that season. Post olympic season she didn't had a real star.
Zagitova winning worlds in that season was nice, but it was still a weak performance. Oh, and btw, Tursynbaeva disappeared after that season.
Last season was as expected, the juniors having a good first senior season- it'a a typical trend, we had this before with Kihira, Higuchi, Mihara, Kaori, Yulia and co. Looking at the performances, none of the "3A" had a clean or in any kind special skate. It was ( and still is) just a huge hype around nothing.