2020-21 Grand Prix- when will get assignments, if at all?

TeamGubanova said:

GP Australia Sydney, Australia

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As we say in the vicinity: yeah, nah. Our borders aren't open and won't be for many months yet.

surimi said:

^ If there is a shortened season starting with the new year, I do hope there are more B winter/spring events than usual, all given the Challenger status. Because in countries with a lot of competition, some quality skaters would be blocked from getting the much needed ranking points as it would be the same team, or mostly the same team, sent to Euros/4CC and Worlds.

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That is exactly what I think. Indeed, I even said it earlier in this thread:

CaroLiza_fan said:

...

In MotoGP, the teams are based in various different countries. And even when teams are from the same country, they are spread out across different regions of that country. So, there is a lot higher risk of the virus getting into the paddock and spreading.

And the same would be the case in figure skating. The Junior and Senior GP Series are both set up in a way that each competition has entries from a wide variety of countries.

I have already mentioned the following in PM’s with the members that I have been chatting with privately during the lockdown. But, I will now repeat it here for the public audience.

I honestly can’t see the competitive circuit getting back to normal until summer 2021. After a long period away from the ice and away from training, it will take time for the skaters to get back to peak condition. So, even if the lockdown easing allows them to go back to training next week, I would say that the skaters would not be ready for the Autumn part of the season. And it wouldn’t be fair to throw skaters in at the deep end by starting their seasons at Nationals or the Majors.

What I would envisage happening is for the competitive circuit to re-start with a whole string of Senior B’s held between January and July 2021, and then for the season to go back to normal in August 2021 with the Junior GP series.

Not ideal in the season before an Olympic season, but you can’t help unexpected things like this happening.

CaroLiza_fan

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The events of the past few days have shown why competitions with people coming in from a wide range of countries just cannot happen. Everybody has been applauding how New Zealand handled the pandemic, closing the borders straight away. And the result was a low number of cases and a low number of deaths.

The problem is that once they had gone 17 days with no cases, they eased the restrictions. And within days, two people who had arrived from the UK on the day the lockdown ended tested positive. Admittedly, these were special circumstances - they were coming to the country to say goodbye to a dying parent. But, with the UK having the third highest death toll in the world, you would have thought that it would be wiser not to make a compassionate exemption for anybody coming from the British Isles.

Anyway, unlike the Junior and Senior GP Series, the entries in most Senior B's are prodominantly from the host country and neighbouring countries. You only actually need one skater who is representing a different country to take part to make that category eligible for ISU statistics (such as minimum TES's, or Personal Bests).

If you take last season's Tayside Trophy, all the skaters that were fulfilling this requirement in the Senior competitions were actually based in the UK (Aleksandra Golovkina representing Lithuania in Senior Ladies; and Sam McAllister and Conor Stakelum representing Ireland in Senior Men). So, the international skaters don't even have to be travelling into the country.

This means that, even if there are still travel restrictions on people coming into countries, if travel within the country is allowed, it is still possible to hold a Senior B and for it to count towards ISU statistics.

You all know that I do not agree with the current setup where we have two tiers of Senior B, with some counting towards ISU statistics (Challenger Events) and some not counting towards ISU statistics (regular Senior B's). So, these exceptional circumstances would be the perfect opportunity to re-level the playing field, and make every Senior B count.

And maybe then the ISU will realise that this is a good idea, and keep it that way!

Anyway, all in all, I do believe that re-starting the competitive circuit at the start of 2021 with a few intensive months full of Senior B's that all count towards ISU statistics, and then returning to the regular schedule for the 2021-22 season, is the best way forward.

Yes, it would be disappointing to have a season with no GP's or Majors. But, in this tricky situation, it does seem to be the best compromise solution.

CaroLiza_fan

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1272574996557246466

Philip Hersh
@olyphil
Asked @ISU_Figure if there was date for making Grand Prix assignments, usually done by now. Reply: "Due to the unprecedented times, a date has not yet been fixed. . .but we can expect the announcement to be later this year.” Aug. 1 deadline for viability of Skate Am, GP opener

TeamGubanova said:

I think we could see

SP South Korea Seoul, South Korea
GP Germany Obersstodrf, Bavaria, Germany
GP Canada Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
GP Australia Sydney, Australia
GP Finland Espoo, Finland
GP USA Lake Placid, New York, United States

GP Final Linz, Austria

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Korea - nope, currently dealing with resurgence.
Germany - maybe, depending on when the second wave hits Europe.
Canada - maybe. Highly dependent on the border with the US staying closed.
Australia - no frickin' chance, we're doing well, we're not letting people in except from our Kiwi buddies.
Finland - maybe, highly depending on the Europe second wave.
USA - pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffft. No. Not happening. Not at all. Would be shocked if any other country let people from there in for the rest of the year at this rate.

Austria - maybe, again highly conditional on European second wave.

SkateSkates said:

But isn’t the final the Olympic test event? I would think if they hold the series, they will definitely want to do the final in Beijing. Otherwise, they would need to move 4CC or Worlds to China for the Olympic test event which I don’t see happening (maybe 4CC which would be a shame, but worlds seems unlikely) Unless somehow GPF and 4CC could come up with a deal to switch event locations, although I’m not sure if the situation is bad enough in December if it will be better by February. Plus who knows about venue availability.

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Maybe, it is just that a lot of skating feds wouldn't be comfortable sending their skaters to China. But, I think it is a possibility.

karne said:

Korea - nope, currently dealing with resurgence.
Germany - maybe, depending on when the second wave hits Europe.
Canada - maybe. Highly dependent on the border with the US staying closed.
Australia - no frickin' chance, we're doing well, we're not letting people in except from our Kiwi buddies.
Finland - maybe, highly depending on the Europe second wave.
USA - pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffft. No. Not happening. Not at all. Would be shocked if any other country let people from there in for the rest of the year at this rate.

Austria - maybe, again highly conditional on European second wave.

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GP Taipei - Almost no existing cases - 2018 4CC
GP Canada - Reopening phases and limited cases - Skate Canada
GP Oberstdorf - In Bavaria + not many cases - Nebelhorn Trophy
GP Ostrava - Not many cases - 2017 Euros
GP Finland - Not many cases - 2017 Worlds
GP Seoul - Yes, there is a resurgence, but the final GP would be in late November - 4CC 2020

GPF Beijing - It would be December, a year after the virus and people would think that America was still the cause of the virus. - Olympic 2022 (supposedly)

Interesting exercise. I think I agree with TeamGubanova on all of the GPs, but I don't think GPF in Beijing is likely. I'd assume that will take place in Europe yet again. Or they'd have it in Seoul (we just had 4CCs there), but the GP in Austria?

The problem with GPs is they involve extensive international travel.

If a country is doing well with covid, they don't want a lot of visitors who might bring in the virus.

If a country is doing poorly, people don't want to visit and possibly catch the virus.

So, nobody can host.

By the way, Ottawa is in Ontario but on the Quebec border. Those are the two Canadian provinces that are having the biggest problems with Covid. Partly their numbers are large because of their large populations, but their per capita statistics are nothing to brag about.

I was just pointing out that Beijing GPF is the Olympic test event - they need to hold a large international event sometime this season before the Olympics to make any necessary adjustments. 4CC were the test event in 2017 and GPF in 2012/13 season, so it could take place at either competition if they really needed to switch it.

I think that if the ISU was thinking ahead (lol) they could’ve come up with a solution that minimized travel - ie there would be 3 locations: 1 in Europe, 1 in North America and 1 in Asia. Eligible skaters would be assigned to the event closest to their training location. Fields would be much larger than usual and likely extremely unbalanced, but maybe top 12 would make GPF instead of just 6. Skaters would have to arrive far in advance and train in that location for a few weeks before the events took place. They would compete twice, staying in the host location for the duration of the series. No spectators. This would never ever be possible and is far too expensive for them to pull off, but I can dream

SkateSkates said:

I think that if the ISU was thinking ahead (lol) they could’ve come up with a solution that minimized travel

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I get that you're just playing with scenarios here, but I keep seeing people saying this seriously in other places and it's driving me batty, because it completely ignores the fact that many skaters are literally banned from travelling to compete right now. For example, these are the travel bans in place for Australian citizens and permanent residents right now, direct from the government's SmartTraveller website:

If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption. You can apply online but you must meet at least one of the following:

--your travel is as part of the response to the COVID-19 outbreak, including the provision of aid
--your travel is essential for the conduct of critical industries and business (including export and import industries)
--you are travelling to receive urgent medical treatment that is not available in Australia
--you are travelling on urgent and unavoidable personal business
--you are travelling on compassionate or humanitarian grounds
--your travel is in the national interest.

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Minimising travel wouldn't make a scrap of difference when travel is banned in the first place - much as we'd all like to think it is, participating in a skating competition does not count as being in the national interest. And I doubt we're the only country whose citizens and permanent residents have such restrictions in place. So...even hypothesising is pointless until those restrictions are lifted, I'm afraid.

karne said:

Korea - nope, currently dealing with resurgence.
Germany - maybe, depending on when the second wave hits Europe.

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I don't get it, so according to http://worldometers.info/coronavirus
Korea recorded under 100 new cases - but nope due to resurgence
Germany had over 600 new cases - maybe
Am I missing something?

I attended 4CC in Seoul this year and they were well prepared in Feb. I personally feel safe to travel to Korea and Taiwan IF any events are being held in these countries (also if I'm allowed to travel overseas).

wanpe said:

I don't get it, so according to http://worldometers.info/coronavirus
Korea recorded under 100 new cases - but nope due to resurgence
Germany had over 600 new cases - maybe
Am I missing something?

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I can't speak for South Korea, but the new 600+ cases all happened in the same spot (a slaughterhouse), though there are still active cases in other states, too, of course. (In fact, most of our big jumps in infections in the last few weeks have been results of localised hotspots.) So the second wave isn't hitting yet, but it does potentially make the case for not having big, packed events especially in cold places (which has been theorised as one of the reasons that slaughterhouses keep being hotspots, though it's likely lacking health and safety measures and generally problematic work/living environment are the bigger reason).

Regardless, the same federal state in which this happened is currently discussing measures how to safely do things like concerts etc. again, so who knows. It's very difficult to say what politicians are currently doing and depending on the federal state, quite different, too. For now, it's projected that bigger events probably won't be happening until the end of October except for maybe places like the aforemention Nordrhein-Westfalen (I could go into the politics of this, but let's just say different heads of federal states have picked different strategies for various reasons, lol).

TeamGubanova said:

GP Taipei - Almost no existing cases - 2018 4CC
GP Canada - Reopening phases and limited cases - Skate Canada
GP Oberstdorf - In Bavaria + not many cases - Nebelhorn Trophy
GP Ostrava - Not many cases - 2017 Euros
GP Finland - Not many cases - 2017 Worlds
GP Seoul - Yes, there is a resurgence, but the final GP would be in late November - 4CC 2020

GPF Beijing - It would be December, a year after the virus and people would think that America was still the cause of the virus. - Olympic 2022 (supposedly)

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Bavaria was hit hardest with NRW in Germany, plus does have a very conservative government, which is even discussing the cancelltion of carneval, which next to the Oktoberfest is a huge thing in that state. They have also extended the lockdown on events until the last week of October, so that only event´s take place, which follow very hard rules and I said it before, I highly doubt that we do have the money or men power, to host an international figure skating event without a crowd.

Besides that, having the money and the ok from the local health department are one thing, what we would also need are people willing to organize it and you don´t just organize an international sports event in a few weeks. It takes many months and we won´t have that, unless they cancel Nebelhorn and do a GP instead, which is highly unlikely though, as Nebelhorn was already announced.

While the Bavarian figure skating federation is the last "men" standing with bigger skating events in Germany (we lost both JGP and GP already, NRW Trophy...), it seems impossible that they would be able to host three under the current circumstances and requirements.

We have many passionate people working for the sport, many without or just small payments, but there are limits and I am afraid, hosting a GP or Europeans / Worlds, is one of them. Our last big event (worlds) was in 2004 at Dortmund, that´s almost 20 years.

Needles to say, Germany is currently in a small crisis again, we do have many local hotspots that either involved traveling or people being together in close environments and the numbers after the demonstrations are yet to come.

Sorry, I am just being realistic here.

Most EU countries lift internal border checks from Jun 27 so I guess they'll form a travel bubble of sorts as a starting point. I think the plan is to then gradually unwind the travel ban for international travelers throughout July but only for people arriving from "low-risk countries."

The revised ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Series will therefore be as follows:

1st event September 9-12, 2020 Budapest / HUN
2nd event September 16-19, 2020 Yokohama / JPN
3rd event (incl. Pair Skating) September 23-26, 2020 Ostrava / CZE
4th event (incl. Pair Skating) Sept. 30-Oct. 3, 2020 Tashkent / UZB
5th event October 7-10, 2020 Ljubljana / SLO
6th event (incl. Pair Skating) October 14-17, 2020 Riga / LAT

A further update will be given after the Council meeting to be held on July 6, 2020.
https://www.isu.org/synchronized-skating/rules/sys-communications/24380-isu-communication-2332/file

Anything held in Canada wouldn't allow for any skater who trains in the US to participate. People who were stranded on the opposite side of the border from their families are having trouble crossing. If people are struggling to reunite with their families, they're not going to let skaters cross for competitions. And I don't see it opening any time soon.

haribobo said:

MEN (roughly 36 skaters for 72 total spots)
RUS (7)- Samarin, Aliev, Danielian, Ignatov, Mozalev, Gumennik, Kolyada
USA (7/8)- Chen, Zhou, Brown, Hiwatashi, Pulkinen, Krasnozhon, Torgashev, Naumov?
JPN (7)- Kagiyama, Hanyu, Uno, Tanaka, Tomono, Yamamoto, Sato
CAN (4)- Messing, Nguyen, Sadovsky, Nadeau (host spot: Phan/Orzel/Gogolev)
FRA (1)- Aymoz, Fa
CHN (2) - Boyang Jin, Yan Han
Other (7)- Cha, Kvitelashvili, Vasiljevs, Grassl, Rizzo, Fentz, Brezina (alt: Kovalev, Selevko, Litvintsev, Kerry)

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I would like to point out here, that He Zhang has gotten the 3rd host spot at the Cup of China the past three years it's been held.

silver.blades said:

Anything held in Canada wouldn't allow for any skater who trains in the US to participate. People who were stranded on the opposite side of the border from their families are having trouble crossing. If people are struggling to reunite with their families, they're not going to let skaters cross for competitions. And I don't see it opening any time soon.

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Ouch...then it is bad for Canadian because there are lot of other Countries who are able and Want to held competitions. Good example was Latvia who will held jgp instead of Canada jgp. Europe is open already and will be also for countries outside european union starting 1.07.

I thought it was a fantasy exercise. I don't think it really matters when travel restrictions will or won't be removed, or who is or isn't having resurgence. It is doubtful the skaters will want to risk anything in the pre-Olympic season, even if nothing is cancelled.

We really only have to pray for some reasonable Olympic spots and selection criteria.

Skatesocs said:

I thought it was a fantasy exercise. I don't think it really matters when travel restrictions will or won't be removed, or who is or isn't having resurgence. It is doubtful the skaters will want to risk anything in the pre-Olympic season, even if nothing is cancelled.

We really only have to pray for some reasonable Olympic spots and selection criteria.

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Well this gives opportunity to less popular skaters who don't have a shot for Olympics. If big names bow out of this GP series we might see some skaters we don't normally get the opportunity to see.