Rika Kihira to add Brian Orser as her secondary coach | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Rika Kihira to add Brian Orser as her secondary coach

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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I am wondering if there might be a little disconnect between what actually happens at TCC and what may be projected?

Now, I only started learning about TCC since my fav skater joined there two years ago, but here is what I think I know:

1. Brian is one of multiple coaches at TCC. Every skater works with multiple coaches, some more than others.

2. If anyone is accustomed to handling two major talents at once, it is Brian Orser, coach of World Champions several years in a row. Yuzu and Javi were rivals *and* best buds. It is possible to be both. Both of them wanted to win (where is this coming from that Javi, two time World Champion, is just content with medaling. I don't think so:) ) and at times it was difficult to thread the needle. But Brian and TCC did. (If I am wrong and fans of Yuzu or Javi have other info, let me know).

3. Brian and TCC are great at polishing but also great at developing, as Yuzu and Javi were certainly not at the level they achieved when they joined TCC.

4. TCC does not have jump-offs, skate-offs to the death, or any of that type of competition between skaters during their training. Of course, their camp has world class skaters and they are highly competitive. But Jason has said, for example, that the coaches point out to each of them what the others do best as examples: Jason, you may want to look at how Yuzu takes off here, Yuzu, take a look a how Jason skates to each beat, etc. And these examples are not meant to criticize any one particular skater, just encourage them.

5. What the skaters do together is stroking exercises. I looooove:love: this vid from the official practice at 4CC where Yuzu, Jun and Jason do their stroking exercises together:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CBVHYwjJ3ne/?igshid=1v2dhrmb1nnse

Wouldn't it be cool to see Zhenya and Rika do the same thing?
 
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Amei

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Orser doesn’t need insurance by taking on Kihira, though. She’s a gold mine already. No technical issues. Consistent 3A. Been traning 4S and 4T for several years. Great skating skills and musicality. I believe the “secondary coach” is a formality to appease either Hamada or Medvedeva. She may never say it aloud, but there’s no way Medvedeva’s 100% A-okay with this. But this is a win-win situation for Orser and he’s not going to pass it up. The positive spin to this is that Kihira is Japanese, not Russian. Medvedeva may also need competition in the rink to get that 4S down.

Out of curiosity - why do you think that Orser would do anything to "appease" Medvedeva? She's only been with him for 2 years, they have very little history between them, and unless she strangely was able to get him to sign some type of exclusivity agreement where he agreed to not coach any competition to her (which is something I've never heard of existing in the figure skating) then he owes her nothing in terms of refusing another student.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Out of curiosity - why do you think that Orser would do anything to "appease" Medvedeva? She's only been with him for 2 years, they have very little history between them, and unless she strangely was able to get him to sign some type of exclusivity agreement where he agreed to not coach any competition to her (which is something I've never heard of existing in the figure skating) then he owes her nothing in terms of refusing another student.

Jumping off from this post, but I would have the same question.

Brian Orser is a coach who clearly believes in taking on more than one "star" student. Zhenya knew that when she went to him.

I actually think, from seeing their interactions, that Brian has grown personally fond of Zhenya. And the way TCC works, attention to Rika doesn't mean less attention for Zhenya. I really don't see the issue :scratch2:
 

TallyT

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2. If anyone is accustomed to handling two major talents at once, it is Brian Orser, coach of World Champions several years in a row. Yuzu and Javi were rivals *and* best buds. It is possible to be both. Both of them wanted to win (where is this coming from that Javi, two time World Champion, is just content with medaling. I don't think so:) ) and at times it was difficult to thread the needle. But Brian and TCC did. (If I am wrong and fans of Yuzu or Javi have other info, let me know).

I think the "any medal will do" thing comes from the fact that we do know Javier was desperately wanting that first Spanish OM at Pyeongchang (that, and his sweet and for the most part amazingly generous reaction to being hitched to Yuzuru's GOAT story) and it got over-extrapolated in general. And their joint absolutely adorable reactions when the other won. But make no mistake, if he could have taken that Olympic gold from Yuzu's iron grip, he would have no question, just like he stepped up and grabbed those two World championships.

A lot of what made their relationship unique came from Yuzu and Javi themselves, but Brian, and Tracey and the TCC, have to be credited with the way they learned - on the job, and with said GOAT/legend/superstar narrative galloping alongside and making things incredibly difficult - the skill of handling and developing two top-level competitive phenomenons and, as you say, helping them to learn from and push and help each other.

One important point though - as when Yuna and then Yuzu moved to Brian, we don't know precisely what it is that Rika is looking to him for, we can speculate and assume but we could be wildly wrong. What I have seen of Rika strikes me as very clear-eyed and level-headed about what she is and does and wants.
 

starlight97

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Jun 14, 2014
Has Rika ever commented on the whole abuse situation her coach has going on with other skaters?

I'm not super knowledgeable about the issue but everytime I watched her coach after a skate and in the kiss and cry, before hearing about the abuse, I cringed because she has this extremely fake exaggerated act of smiling and being happy even when the skater just completely messed up. And then hearing about what she allegedly is like behind closed doors I really can't say it surprised me. To prevent myself from sounding insensitive, I know that to some extent that's a cultural feature of Japan, putting on a nice face, being polite etc no matter what and not showing negative interactions on camera. And why from my cultural point of view that fakeness might seem cringy, to another culture having a negative moment in the kiss and cry might be. But still, I wonder if it has anything to do with Rika's decision to broaden her coaching horizon.
 

el henry

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Has the "abuse" with "other" skaters (I am not talking about Nobu here) been verified in a publication other than the Japanese equivalent of the National Enquirer, which is my understanding where it originally appeared?
 

Ballade88

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But make no mistake, if he could have taken that Olympic gold from Yuzu's iron grip, he would have no question, just like he stepped up and grabbed those two World championships.

Yes of course, when the opportunity presented itself, like any competitor, he stepped up. I am not saying he wouldn't be happy or worked towards winning the Olympics. But he always gave the impression that it wasn't gold or nothing for him. He didn't seem to have that tunnel vision that someone like Hanyu did. I am pretty sure that the whole dynamic would be very different if Hanyu trained together with Patrick Chan or Nathan Chen. One also has to remember that his famous students weren't superstars when they started training with Orser. They were more emerging stars. Rika does fit this type. But Medvedeva was already a silver medalist and double world champion before joining TCC. Her mindset and career stage is totally different. I think it would be more of challenge because she has more of a Hanyu mindset, in that she really wants to win.
 

TallyT

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Out of curiosity - why do you think that Orser would do anything to "appease" Medvedeva?

My guess is another extrapolation from the fact that Brian is known to have asked Javi it it was okay with him when taking on Yuzuru. But IMO that may have had a lot to do with the messy Yuna split still hurting (wasn't it due to a rumour that he might take on one of her rivals?) and Brian being ultra-careful at that point. Also, the two men would be working more closely together than will probably be the case with Evgenia and Rika.

Medvedeva doesn't have exclusive rights to the TCC, no one does, and she wouldn't expect a say in Orser's business.
 

Dreamer57

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I don't think that Rika would want to comment on that, the Japanese media tend to jump on everything their skaters say and do. I hope that Rika gets to fulfil her ambitions from this training move!

I do also wonder about the co-coaching situation though. Satoko moved to Canada a few months ago. There is also Vincent and Young who are her students with other coaches. Does Mie think she is missing something coaching-wise? :scratch2:
 

el henry

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I don't think that Rika would want to comment on that, the Japanese media tend to jump on everything their skaters say and do. I hope that Rika gets to fulfil her ambitions from this training move!

I do also wonder about the co-coaching situation though. Satoko moved to Canada a few months ago. There is also Vincent and Young who are her students with other coaches. Does Mie think she is missing something coaching-wise? :scratch2:

I can't speak for Young, but for Vincent I would think Mie is missing something geography-wise:biggrin: I highly doubt Vincent wants to train full time in Japan, and he certainly couldn't while studying at Brown. Canada seems to be the foreign country choice for US men;)
 

Tolstoj

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Orser doesn’t need insurance by taking on Kihira, though. She’s a gold mine already. No technical issues. Consistent 3A. Been traning 4S and 4T for several years. Great skating skills and musicality. I believe the “secondary coach” is a formality to appease either Hamada or Medvedeva. She may never say it aloud, but there’s no way Medvedeva’s 100% A-okay with this. But this is a win-win situation for Orser and he’s not going to pass it up. The positive spin to this is that Kihira is Japanese, not Russian. Medvedeva may also need competition in the rink to get that 4S down. If she’s strong enough, this should light a fire under her.

Well Medvedeva might not be happy about this, potentially being sidelined a little (but it depends, maybe this will push her to catch up like it worked for Javi and Yuzuru), anyway i don't think she had a say on this regardless of what she thinks.
 

Scott512

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This is going to be so interesting. She's technically perfect just like Yuna Kim and isn't Brian very good at working with already polished skaters?

I'm still 🤯🤯🤯

Not recovering from this anytime soon. We are talking about my chosen child here.
Brian loves him some already made skaters!

I was thinking in a couple years he might get Alysa or Young You. But Rika beat them to it. ;) It will be interesting to see how this works out. Coaching changes don’t always work and she was off to an outstanding start in her career the first two years. Especially her debut season.
 

el henry

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Brian loves him some already made skaters!

I was thinking in a couple years he might get Alysa or Young You. But Rika beat them to it. ;) It will be interesting to see how this works out. Coaching changes don’t always work and she was off to an outstanding start in her career the first two years. Especially her debut season.

I’m not understanding this comment, which is the second time you have made it. You surely don’t mean that Brian works only with “made” skaters?:scratch3:

Anyone who has followed men’s skating knows that this is not true. Yuzu and Javi were hardly “made” skaters when they joined TCC. Jun has skated for TCC as a junior, as have many other skaters. Gogolev skated as a junior for Brian and then left, does that mean Raf loves him some “made” skaters?:biggrin:

Of course any coach in the world love a “made” skater. No coach in the USA, Canada, Russia or Japan would turn down a call from Yuzu or Nathan, in the unlikely event such a call were made. :)

Any way, best of luck to Rika and I hope the arrangement works for her:clap:
 

4everchan

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I’m not understanding this comment, which is the second time you have made it. You surely don’t mean that Brian works only with “made” skaters?:scratch3:

Anyone who has followed men’s skating knows that this is not true. Yuzu and Javi were hardly “made” skaters when they joined TCC. Jun has skated for TCC as a junior, as have many other skaters. Gogolev skated as a junior for Brian and then left, does that mean Raf loves him some “made” skaters?:biggrin:

Of course any coach in the world love a “made” skater. No coach in the USA, Canada, Russia or Japan would turn down a call from Yuzu or Nathan, in the unlikely event such a call were made. :)

Any way, best of luck to Rika and I hope the arrangement works for her:clap:

the comment is quite common... Brian still has to show how he can develop a skater from early stages... the most impact he has had (IMHO) on a skater is with Javi... Yuzu Yuna Med and others already were on top of things....

by the way.. I don't think Javi and Yuzu were best buds... Yuzu kinds of flies solo with all the professionalism he shows. He seems nice and respectful of his colleagues but he doesn't appear on all the dinner not so much dinner party photos other show up on... If anything, a guy like Chiddy, while miles away was hanging out with Javi much more..

this is all unimportant but it's Sunday and I am deciding whether or not apero should be followed by some decent viognier... so i am bantering away... forgive me.

I personally think that Rika can get a few things from Brian : killer mode... and refinement in interpretation... and i am excited to see it happen.
 

YuBluByMe

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the comment is quite common... Brian still has to show how he can develop a skater from early stages...

Wrong. He had Gogolev and Cha was just coming off of Novices when he came to Orser. One could also have the opposite criticism - the inability to continue developing skaters - for quite a few coaches. Orser is quite good at this and it’s why I believe he’s the best men’s coach in the World.
 

Ophelia

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Which coach has shown he/she can develop skaters from an early age? (and don't say Eteri bc ppl complain every minute about how shoddy the technique she teaches is). Raf inherited Chen, Wagner, Gogolev, and Rippon. Eteri inherited Kostornaia (which is why Kostornaia's jump technique is better than her peers').

Don't top coaches usually go the route of inheriting skaters? I can't imagine why top coaches would want to spend time developing a skater from scratch given that it's inefficient earnings optimization.
 

Shayuki

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Which coach has shown he/she can develop skaters from an early age? (and don't say Eteri bc ppl complain every minute about how shoddy the technique she teaches is). Raf inherited Chen, Wagner, Gogolev, and Rippon. Eteri inherited Kostornaia (which is why Kostornaia's jump technique is better than her peers').

Don't top coaches usually go the route of inheriting skaters? I can't imagine why top coaches would want to spend time developing a skater from scratch given that it's inefficient earnings optimization.
Well Eteri's skaters have their technique when they come to her. If the technique is good(Veronika Zhilina), it's not like she teaches them a different technique.

Generally, coaches don't coach skaters of all ages, for example Eteri's system has children from 4 years of age and up, but she herself doesn't coach them until they're close to junior eligible or so(although she does seem to give input).
 

Amei

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Which coach has shown he/she can develop skaters from an early age? (and don't say Eteri bc ppl complain every minute about how shoddy the technique she teaches is). Raf inherited Chen, Wagner, Gogolev, and Rippon. Eteri inherited Kostornaia (which is why Kostornaia's jump technique is better than her peers').

Regardless of what you think about Eteri's skaters technique, she has certainly developed a good number of them into champions.

Don't top coaches usually go the route of inheriting skaters? I can't imagine why top coaches would want to spend time developing a skater from scratch given that it's inefficient earnings optimization.

Why would parents invest in a top high-level coach like an Orser or Raf for a really young skater so that a coach can say they 'developed' a skater from the start - figure skating is expensive and small children regularly change their mind about what they want to be.
 

TallyT

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I fail to see what this is about, surely it is the sign of a successful coach that 'made' - or nearly made but needing the push to the top - skaters want to go to them to get that push? Same as in other sports.
 

sailormoon

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Orser is a good jump coach and Hanyu's quads improved significantly after moving to Canada. Kihira will focus on the two quad jumps she has been working on to compete with top Russian skaters with confidence in the upcoming seasons.
 
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