Rika Kihira to add Brian Orser as her secondary coach

Ballade88 · Jun 14, 2020

Several old school coaches had developed skaters from an early age.
Frank Caroll coached Linda Fratianne, Michelle Kwan, and Christopher Bowman since the start of their skating careers.
Nobuo Sato coached his daughter Yuka Sato and Takahito Kozuka.
Carolina Kostner trained with Michael Huth for most of her career, although she was coached for a short period by Frank Carroll.

Some coaches meet prodigies at an early age. Some also think that communication might be easier since older skaters tend to be more strong-willed and opinionated.

Skater Boy · Jun 14, 2020

Interesting I think it is clear Rika wants OGM. She has the tools and the body type over the Russian crew. I think this is smart. Sad because Evgenia falls to the no. 2 Orser girl. We will see her on the GP circuit but a good chance we won't see Evgenia at GP Finals, worlds or Euros. whereas Rika has the potential to win everything. Tracey Probably can help with pcs Thisi s a good move.

Skatesocs · Jun 14, 2020

el henry said:
I’m not understanding this comment, which is the second time you have made it. You surely don’t mean that Brian works only with “made” skaters?

They didn't say "only" with made skaters, and I think it's obvious what they meant, so I'm not sure what this debate that has sprung has a use for. People will always be free to ignore Nanami Abe and Shin Hea-sook/Ryu Jong-hyun (and the rest of them) if they so choose.

Ballade88 said:
Several old school coaches had developed skaters from an early age.
Frank Caroll coached Linda Fratianne, Michelle Kwan, and Christopher Bowman since the start of their skating careers.
Nobuo Sato coached his daughter Yuka Sato and Takahito Kozuka.
Carolina Kostner trained with Michael Huth for most of her career, although she was coached for a short period by Frank Carroll.

Some coaches meet prodigies at an early age. Some also think that communication might be easier since older skaters tend to be more strong-willed and opinionated.

eaglehelang · Jun 15, 2020

YuBluByMe said:
But again, I don’t think Orser will truly be Kihira’s secondary coach to begin with.

I think so too, esp after Satoko switched over Lee Barkell last season. Officially, it was Hamada would be her main coach to only Lee Barkell at the boards with Satoko at Japan Nationals. With Hamada physically present at the competition.

eaglehelang · Jun 15, 2020

lilahozi said:
Which coach has shown he/she can develop skaters from an early age? (and don't say Eteri bc ppl complain every minute about how shoddy the technique she teaches is). Raf inherited Chen, Wagner, Gogolev, and Rippon. Eteri inherited Kostornaia (which is why Kostornaia's jump technique is better than her peers').

Don't top coaches usually go the route of inheriting skaters? I can't imagine why top coaches would want to spend time developing a skater from scratch given that it's inefficient earnings optimization.

Hasnt Gogolev trained at TCC since he was 10 yrs old? That's young by Orser's standard, Orser did say before he doesnt take skaters who are really young. He takes them after they have the basics. Gogolev I think was the exception.
Gogolev has switched to Rafael but thats only last year.

A skater of Cha Jun Hwan age, 14(teens below 18) when he joined TCC, I think would be the age Orser prefers to take in his students. Not too young, not out of juniors yet, can still be molded in the ways of TCC.

Didnt Nathan Chen start training with Rafael since he was 11 or 12? That not "made" skaters.
I do think the senior level coaches usually dont start with their students till age 10 or till age 12(for men). That's when the parents and young skater have to think if they want to take up skating seriously.

kolyadafan2002 · Jun 15, 2020

Amei said:
Regardless of what you think about Eteri's skaters technique, she has certainly developed a good number of them into champions.

Why would parents invest in a top high-level coach like an Orser or Raf for a really young skater so that a coach can say they 'developed' a skater from the start - figure skating is expensive and small children regularly change their mind about what they want to be.

Plushenko was coached from young age by Mishin. Lot's of coaches have skaters from young ages to senior. Shoma's old coach for example.

Thrashergurl · Jun 15, 2020

Maybe some are new to figure skating, but skaters change coaches and work with other coaches quite often. Not many skaters have the same coach for their entire career. It’s really not fair to attempt to label Orser negatively. How many skaters have had only one coach their entire career? Perhaps that is a question for a new thread.

el henry · Jun 15, 2020

kolyadafan2002 said:
Plushenko was coached from young age by Mishin. Lot's of coaches have skaters from young ages to senior. Shoma's old coach for example.

Shoma’s “old” coach being the operative word here.

Kori Ade coached Jason from the time he was five until he was 23. Wow

But in North America today that is highly unusual, and “lots” of skaters don’t do that at all. I can’t think of another competitive senior man still skating at 23 with the coach he had at five

(ETA: I should have said US men, as I was rightly corrected below)

And Jason was criticized, even by USFS, for not leaving earlier. The system today encourages skaters to move after a certain amount of time and that is what skaters do. And even though I am old enough to remember and love the skater in my avatar, in North America we don’t coach now like we did then.

Since we are talking about Rika, I don’t know what the norm is in Japan. I agree with Thrashergurl this may be a better subject for another thread. That would be interesting to me, with examples from all disciplines and all countries:yes:

Sorry for :eek:

topic:

Skatesocs · Jun 15, 2020

Thrashergurl said:
Maybe some are new to figure skating, but skaters change coaches and work with other coaches quite often. Not many skaters have the same coach for their entire career. It’s really not fair to attempt to label Orser negatively. How many skaters have had only one coach their entire career? Perhaps that is a question for a new thread.

Nobody, nobody at all thinks of it as a negative. It's just fact. That needn't have been questioned in the first place. No one's going to be a person who has "followed men's skating" and think Hanyu wasn't a made skater before he came over to Orser. :rolleye:

el henry · Jun 15, 2020

Skatesocs said:
Nobody, nobody at all thinks of it as a negative. It's just fact. That needn't have been questioned in the first place. No one's going to be a person who has "followed men's skating" and think Hanyu wasn't a made skater before he came over to Orser.

Oh I am afraid I must disagree, yes I have followed men’s skating since the days of my beloved Toller and yes I do think that Yuzu was not “made” in the way he is now.

But this thread is about Rika, so I would be happy to take this to PM

YuBluByMe · Jun 15, 2020

el henry said:
I can’t think of another competitive senior man still skating at 23 with the coach he had at five

Kolyada.

Break

Anyways back to Kihira. She’s said she wants to experiment with spin positions and more difficult transitions, too. She didn’t make the decision just to get the 4S under her belt. But I’m sure that’s top priority.

Flying Feijoa · Jun 15, 2020

eaglehelang said:
I think so too, esp after Satoko switched over Lee Barkell last season. Officially, it was Hamada would be her main coach to only Lee Barkell at the boards with Satoko at Japan Nationals. With Hamada physically present at the competition.

Yes, I think Brian Orser's coaching relationship with Rika will basically be what Lee Barkell is to Satoko. Given Hamada's political clout with JSF, a blatant move to another coach would cause both her (and to some extent the Japanese federation) to lose face, so I suspect this to be a relatively amicable split, disguised to avoid unwanted media scrutiny.

Has anyone heard any news on the Nobu vs Hamada lawsuit? As posters have mentioned earlier, this could be a factor. Regardless of who is at fault, the potential political/legal trouble might have been disruptive to Rika/Satoko's training environment. I doubt we'll discover the true extent of it anytime soon though.

Jaana · Jun 15, 2020

Ballade88 said:
I mean Jason Brown still struggles with it.

Hmm, I think it is just possible, that he would be struggling with quad with every coach...

el henry · Jun 15, 2020

Jaana said:
Hmm, I think it is just possible, that he would be struggling with quad with every coach...

Well, if we're going to go off topic, why not a subject I know :laugh:

(and I am laughing at myself for the off topic, not anyone else).

Jason struggles because of Jason, something he readily admits. Jason did not go to Brian to "get a quad", although I'm sure he wanted to try new techniques to try to land one in competition. And teaching a 23 old skater new technique can't be easy. So I wouldn't "blame" Brian for this one. Jason is fortunate to have so many other athletic gifts, which TCC has honed. And his 3A is looking mighty fine

Jumping off, and not directed at this post, of course no coach is the "best" coach. No coach is the right coach for everyone. No coach is the right coach for every skater throughout their entire lifetimes. Rika is doing what she thinks is necessary to improve, and good for her.

We'll see what happens

randomfan · Jun 15, 2020

eaglehelang said:
I think so too, esp after Satoko switched over Lee Barkell last season. Officially, it was Hamada would be her main coach to only Lee Barkell at the boards with Satoko at Japan Nationals. With Hamada physically present at the competition.

Cup of China as well. Hamada was there for Young You, and Satoko was also competing, yet Hamada wasn’t with Satoko at all

(at least on-screen, who knows if they had interactions off-screen).

NanaPat · Jun 15, 2020

el henry said:
But in North America today that is highly unusual, and “lots” of skaters don’t do that at all. I can’t think of another competitive senior man still skating at 23 with the coach he had at five (ETA: I should have said US men, as I was rightly corrected below)

:

He's not 23 yet, but he is North American: Roman Sadovsky. The way he talks about his coaches, I expect he'll still be with them at 23 and beyond.

And for those who haven't heard of Roman, he's the current Canadian Champion. :yahoo:

jenaj · Jun 15, 2020

Ballade88 said:
Several old school coaches had developed skaters from an early age.
Frank Caroll coached Linda Fratianne, Michelle Kwan, and Christopher Bowman since the start of their skating careers.
Nobuo Sato coached his daughter Yuka Sato and Takahito Kozuka.
Carolina Kostner trained with Michael Huth for most of her career, although she was coached for a short period by Frank Carroll.

Some coaches meet prodigies at an early age. Some also think that communication might be easier since older skaters tend to be more strong-willed and opinionated.

Brian Boitano has the same coach his entire career. Her career is just starting, but Alysa Liu has had the same coach since the beginning. Sarah Hughes only had one coach. There is no evidence that skaters need to change coaches as they grow older to succeed.

denise3lz · Jun 15, 2020

After Yukina Ota's successful senior career lasted just one season (4CC title in 2004)
Japanese fans tabbed "Crusher" to Mie Hamada.

Hamada openly criticized weight control failure on her skater (Aki Sawada),

This infamous reputation was ceased after Satoko Miyahara's World Silver in 2015 and 4 National titles.

But people retrieved it when she openly pointed out laziness on Marin Honda training attitude and
lacking preparation to competition on Rika Kihira.

4everchan · Jun 15, 2020

YuBluByMe said:
Wrong. He had Gogolev and Cha was just coming off of Novices when he came to Orser. One could also have the opposite criticism - the inability to continue developing skaters - for quite a few coaches. Orser is quite good at this and it’s why I believe he’s the best men’s coach in the World.

I do not dispute Orser's capacity as a coach. I was responding to el henry's comment...

Cha and Gogo were already exceptional skaters at their age when they got to Brian... and for what it's worth, it didn't work out for Gogo. I think my comment should have included the word "generally" as of course, younger skaters have shown up to TCC... but see, it's not working out so much for Phan and Orzel right now, and let's not talk about the disaster ending for Nam. There is not a single coach in the world who can be a good fit for every skater. IMHO, Brian is a great "refinement coach".... and btw, those mentioning Brian as the on fixing Yuzu's jumps should give more credit to Briand who is actually the jump coach at TCC.

4everchan · Jun 15, 2020

NanaPat said:
He's not 23 yet, but he is North American: Roman Sadovsky. The way he talks about his coaches, I expect he'll still be with them at 23 and beyond.

And for those who haven't heard of Roman, he's the current Canadian Champion.

and even Roman had a short time away from Tracey Wainman, going to TCC briefly in 2016-17 before switching back.

Rika Kihira to add Brian Orser as her secondary coach

Ballade88

Skater Boy

Skatesocs

eaglehelang

eaglehelang

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada

Thrashergurl

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Skatesocs

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

YuBluByMe

May Rika spin her hair into GOLD….in 2026.

Flying Feijoa

Jaana

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

randomfan

NanaPat

jenaj

denise3lz

4everchan

4everchan

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