Rika Kihira to add Brian Orser as her secondary coach | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Rika Kihira to add Brian Orser as her secondary coach

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Cha and Gogo were already exceptional skaters at their age when they got to Brian... and for what it's worth, it didn't work out for Gogo.

From the look of last season, Gogo's move isn't working out too hot either as yet. It might right itself now in the run to 2022.... or not. Which emphasises the point that there is no one size fits even 40% let alone all in elite sport nor (for all we love to do it) does second-guessing. Every coach has failures, everyone at this level has wild successes and some of them are another coach's 'duds'.

Rika is adding Brian, not moving completely from Hamada, which shows she and JSF believe they both have something to bring to her already impressive skills, and she can aim for the best of both worlds. The thing is, the Mess That Is 2020 not withstanding, these days it is a lot easier to move internationally, both to a new coach and back and forward to co-coaches, so the highly ambitious will probably and increasingly take advantage.
 

alvaro808

Spectator
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
That's choreographers in general, not just David Wilson.


I find it interesting that THIS is the year she does this - she's going to have to travel between Canada and Japan; travel restrictions galore are going to be an obstacle going between the 2 countries unless there is some special agreement put in place to not have to quarantine.

Traveling is going to be a bit dicey this year, especially with the yo-yo's in Covid-19 that will be occurring all over the place. But there have been talks about "travel bubbles" being arranged between countries that have very low numbers of Covid-19 cases. And fortunately for Rika, Japan is one of those countries (so far) that has had relatively low numbers of Covid-19 (at least when compared to the US Mainland).

I think Rika will be ok. She may have to spend time in quarantine, but hopefully Toronto has been spared the worst of this Pandemic. And if not, well at least she'll have plenty of time to get to know Brian and the others in Canada - even if it has to be from a distance.

:)
 

Greengemmonster

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
May I be so bold as to ask why? David Wilson is one of the best choreographers out there and one of my favourites.

I don't like his choreography for the ladies. It's a snoozefest. And I love Rika so so so much but I did not care for the program he did for her.

The ones he did for Zhenya bored me too. Now if anyone can sell a program it's Zhenya but golly they were just not a good programs.

That said I must admit I have loved everything he's choreographed for Jun. His programs for Jun are excellent. I've rewatched them many times. There are a lot of awesome details in them.

But for the ladies and especially my chosen child.... No no no! šŸ˜‚
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I think the move to Brian is a good one. I'd say he's a finisher coach. As mentioned up thread, he often takes skaters who have been on the scene and have had a moderate to decent level of success but may lack consistency or are missing something they need to elevate their skating. He and his team are able to take that skater and give them that something extra...the ex-factor that pushes them to that next level.

That is exactly what Rika needs. She has about 90% of what she needs: amazing jump content, great spins and wonderful skating skills...she has it all. She's just missing that something extra. I think it's her projection and performance that is lacking. She has it in her but it's too muted. I hated her costumes last season but I actually loved both programs, especially the SP. It was so different and unique and I feel like she could have sold it SO much better than she did. I hope Brian and his team can help to bring her out of her shell and get her to invest in the performance fully. If she can take what she already has and bring that performance element to it and really make it sparkle--and possibly throw a quad on top of it--she should be in the running for that top spot.
 

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
May I be so bold as to ask why? David Wilson is one of the best choreographers out there and one of my favourites.

Wilson's great if the goal's to mask a skater's complete lack of performing ability, but if the skater does possess some performing ability, then Wilson's a master at hiding it and making the skater look average.
 

Ballade88

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
I think the move to Brian is a good one. I'd say he's a finisher coach. As mentioned up thread, he often takes skaters who have been on the scene and have had a moderate to decent level of success but may lack consistency or are missing something they need to elevate their skating. He and his team are able to take that skater and give them that something extra...the ex-factor that pushes them to that next level.

But has he really been able to do that with any skater after Hanyu? His track record with ladies in the last decade hasn't been great. I'm not sure how much improving her artistry is going to help her win over the Russians. I mean lets' be honest, PCS is a political game moreso than ever nowadays. Rika knows that she needs those quads. Satoko's is 100 times more artistic than any Russian skater but she isn't getting that PCS.


I assume they just don't like his programs?

I don't think he has made a great program in recent years. They lack originality. He might be going through the Lori Nichol syndrome (too many clients). Jeffrey Buttle has become a better choreographer in my opinion.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
But has he really been able to do that with any skater after Hanyu? His track record with ladies in the last decade hasn't been great. I'm not sure how much improving her artistry is going to help her win over the Russians. I mean lets' be honest, PCS is a political game moreso than ever nowadays. Rika knows that she needs those quads. Satoko's is 100 times more artistic than any Russian skater but she isn't getting that PCS.

PCS is not just about "artistry" - is there a level of "artistry" involved in PCS, yes, but it's not the sole item that builds that second score.



I don't think he has made a great program in recent years. They lack originality. He might be going through the Lori Nichol syndrome (too many clients). Jeffrey Buttle has become a better choreographer in my opinion.

In terms of most enjoyable choreography = Lambiel
In terms of constructing winning programs = Daniil G.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Mar 3, 2014
Country
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Wilson's great if the goal's to mask a skater's complete lack of performing ability, but if the skater does possess some performing ability, then Wilson's a master at hiding it and making the skater look average.

Jason Brown. Schindler's List. A great performer and a program with performing skill highlighted.

Now, the same David Wilson gave us Simon & Garfunkel the year before. I'm not claiming he hits it out of the park every time. But he can work with performers just fine. Sometimes. :)

And if Rika needs performing polishing skill (I don't know enough about her to know if she does), she could do a lot worse than skating in the same camp as Jason ;)
 

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Jason Brown. Schindler's List. A great performer and a program with performing skill highlighted.

Now, the same David Wilson gave us Simon & Garfunkel the year before. I'm not claiming he hits it out of the park every time. But he can work with performers just fine. Sometimes. :)

And if Rika needs performing polishing skill (I don't know enough about her to know if she does), she could do a lot worse than skating in the same camp as Jason ;)
You think so? I think it's one of Jason Brown's weaker choreographies that I can remember, very dull and empty program and doesn't suit him at all. He indeed had to try quite a bit to make something happen but could have done so much more with an actual choreography. I think the only reason people would consider it good is because the Schindler's List theme itself is such a good music track. I think his 19-20 SP choreo's far stronger even this past season. And of course, he's had several stronger free skates in the past as well.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Country
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You think so? I think it's one of Jason Brown's weaker choreographies that I can remember, very dull and empty program and doesn't suit him at all. He indeed had to try quite a bit to make something happen but could have done so much more with an actual choreography. I think the only reason people would consider it good is because the Schindler's List theme itself is such a good music track. I think his 19-20 SP choreo's far stronger even this past season. And of course, he's had several stronger free skates in the past as well.

I don't want to get too far afield talking about Jason (although I could do that for quite some time :)), but yes, I do consider SL one of his better programs. He was given space to "breathe" in this choreo, but it was connective space for me, not empty space. And of course it helped that the program is so personally meaningful for Jason, that the emotion was real, not contrived. It also helped that DW finally figured out that Jason can do a spiral:laugh:

That might be one of the concerns I would have about DW choreo: Jason's first year at TCC, Wilson obviously had no idea what his gifts were, and concocted something truly half-baked. So Rika might have the same issue in her first year.

And of course I adore Rohene Ward, so I would agree that his programs are fascinating. Maybe Rika can get a program from Rohene:yes:
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
I don't see Jeff Buttle as a great choreographer, nor would I say Wilson hasn't made a good program in years, even if I find Schindler's List mediocre. Same for Lori Nichol - several good programs, but people tend to focus on the bad more. It's actually people like Buttle and Bourne being considered good that I take issue with. But maybe we should make a separate thread.

ETA: not even going to consider Gleikhenghauz in the same breath as any of them.
 

Roast Toast

Medalist
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Brian's coaching school is very expensive. There are some tiger parents out there, granted, but it'd take some seriously deep pockets to shell out that kind of money on a prepubescent child. I know the skating world is obsessed with the Orser vs Eteri competition rn but really little kids don't need star coaches.

edit: did Daniil or Eteri make Kosto's Adios Nonino? That's their school's best program now that they butchered the Picasso one.
 

starlight97

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Brian's coaching school is very expensive. There are some tiger parents out there, granted, but it'd take some seriously deep pockets to shell out that kind of money on a prepubescent child. I know the skating world is obsessed with the Orser vs Eteri competition rn but really little kids don't need star coaches.

edit: did Daniil or Eteri make Kosto's Adios Nonino? That's their school's best program now that they butchered the Picasso one.

Agreed that Alena's Adios Nonino is their best work. In every interview they give they state that they all work on everything, except for Dudakov not doing choreo. So it was a team effort I suppose.

About Brian, YES. Finally someone mentions this. People are going on about how he hasn't raised a child up from the ground yet and that he only works with skaters who were already stars when coming to him. Well yes, if you get charged hundreds of dollars per day for a few hours of training, only skaters who are already at a high level and have sponsors and commercials etc can pay for that. For a child to go there it would take very rich and very ambitious parents.
That's also one of, if not the main reason, why Russia produces all these top class girls. As far as I know skating there is covered by the state and they don't pay anything or very little for training. I'm not even sure if they pay for their own equipment like skates?
 

ruga

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
edit: did Daniil or Eteri make Kosto's Adios Nonino? That's their school's best program now that they butchered the Picasso one.
The creation of Adios Nonino is mostly attributed to Eteri as far as I have seen.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
What is supposed to be special about that Adios Nonino program (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4LyPGJDIuQ)? It was ridiculously unbalanced and not choreographed to the music very well, nor was the choreography itself anything memorable to me. The transitions are random. The posing is generic. None of the spins have anything to do the music. The footwork sequence is pasted on and features the same convoluted and uncohesive movement as most CoP footwork these days. The program as a whole fails to draw out the simmering nostalgia of the music or convey any interesting idea.
 

Roast Toast

Medalist
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
What is supposed to be special about that Adios Nonino program (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4LyPGJDIuQ)? It was ridiculously unbalanced and not choreographed to the music very well, nor was the choreography itself anything memorable to me. The transitions are random. The posing is generic. None of the spins have anything to do the music. The footwork sequence is pasted on and features the same convoluted and uncohesive movement as most CoP footwork these days. The program as a whole fails to draw out the simmering nostalgia of the music or convey any interesting idea.

I mean, what are you comparing it to? Jeffrey? Lu Chen? :laugh: Compared to that school's standard, I find this program relatively uncluttered, tonally consistent, and yes, musical. The combo spin is quite well phrased to the music. The backloading doesn't bother me, as I've come to view it as a quirk of the rules, like that season when everyone was doing half their step sequence on one foot for the GOE bullet. Perhaps you will like the version from Junior worlds a bit better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4xV6wRNYws
 

starlight97

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
What is supposed to be special about that Adios Nonino program (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4LyPGJDIuQ)? It was ridiculously unbalanced and not choreographed to the music very well, nor was the choreography itself anything memorable to me. The transitions are random. The posing is generic. None of the spins have anything to do the music. The footwork sequence is pasted on and features the same convoluted and uncohesive movement as most CoP footwork these days. The program as a whole fails to draw out the simmering nostalgia of the music or convey any interesting idea.

Well well, thank you for your passionately negative opinion. If you get so worked up over this program, how much must your eyes have bleed watching Trusova's GoT FS this season for example, where what you said actually applies :laugh:

That 3-3 :eek: ... I'll never get tired of it.
Beautiful program and so well skated imo. The video from worlds that year with better camera angles is even more enjoyable.
 
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