Which are the best elements ever of each type? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Which are the best elements ever of each type?

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
So you have said previously Baron Vladimir and we may have to disagree on this one. I thought it Caro's nemesis the last few years of competing this pass. Not sure if Caro ever received an 11.50 as KO had in ISU competitions but I have not looked back at every comp.

Maybe both could be considered the standard as overall they excelled in this combo and both left their mark in the sport.

I was just explaining my reasons why i wouldn't take that partcular Kaetlyn jump, as i wouldn't take one particular Caro jump, to be fair. The 3F-3T i choose is by Evgenia Medvedeva which i think even got all the max GOE by the judges. Some of both Caro and Kaetlyn jumps could be on top for different reasons, but i need to choose only one. I think that in recent years Kostornayas 3F-3T may combine the best of Kaetlyn and Zhenya different qualities of that particular combo, the first one is to look 'big', and the second one is to look 'light' and 'secure'.
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
I was just explaining my reasons why i wouldn't take that partcular Kaetlyn jump, as i wouldn't take one particular Caro jump, to be fair. The 3F-3T i choose is by Evgenia Medvedeva which i think even got all the max GOE by the judges. Some of both Caro and Kaetlyn jumps could be on top for different reasons, but i need to choose only one. I think that Kostornayas 3F-3T may combine the best of Kaetlyn and Zhenya different qualities of that particular combo, the first one is to be 'big', and the second one is to look 'secure'.

Which pales in my opinion to both KO and Caro but I understand we all have our preferences.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Which pales in my opinion to both KO and Caro but I understand we all have our preferences.
Well, if the topic was to choose the best North American female skater in new milenium, i would surely named Kaetlyn Osmond, believe me, but that was not the topic :)
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Well, if the topic was to choose the best North American skater in new milenium, i would surely named Kaetlyn Osmond, believe me, but that was not the topic :)

Thanks BV, as we both know, that was never the topic but back to the subject as our roots are showing.
 

AshWagsFan

Edges for days.
Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Country
United-States
Oh my goodness Tonya Harding’s triple axel - EASY +5 based on height and distance alone.

I also think Shizuka’s Ina Bauer is untouchable.
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
I remember how T/M for their throw 3Lo in SP at WC 2019 got +5 GOE across the board (and the stats japanese tv provided about the throw jumps, as height, distance, and speed out of the jump were the best for it, taking all 3 categories in the account). I never saw any other throw jump getting all max GOEs from the judges, so you can say that is the best throw jump ever produced in terms of 'quality'.

That throw was glorious, glorious! Took my breath away when I saw it. And the height! The distance! So beautiful!

In terms of quad combos you gotta love Plushy' 4T-3T-3L that was nuts!

https://youtu.be/_SSN9M4E-Gw

Viktor Petrenko's 3A was incredible!

https://youtu.be/XCLtneR1t1o

I consider Plushy's Tribute to Njinsky straight line footwork the greatest example of it of all time, but I don't know the the technical necessities of that so...

ETA: Also how nice is this 4T-3T from a guy with four screws in his back. That's technique right there

https://youtu.be/nY8jU9YGfhE
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
(Yeah, I'm a dinosaur).

It's good you've brought some perspective! The people trying to claim Kostornaia as best female Axel need to look at some older skaters, especially Midori Ito. The person who claimed Zagitova as best 3Flip is, um, *deleted*.

In recent years, I think the best female 2Axel was from Karen Chen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZdtE7RewM8&t=175s - it flies across the ice like nobody else does anymore!

Seeing a skater live is so different than by TV or technology. You don't see the power, speed or height, the distance covered and ice coverage.

All of those things are seen, if the broadcast quality is sufficient enough. Viewing live does not give a better perspective, most live seats are actually worse, and there's literally no way to see everything a skater does precisely from a live perspective. If you are next to the boards, then you can't see the skater's feet as they pass by you, and if you sit too far back then you are obviously further away from details. I think the ideal place to sit at a competition is right behind the judges, but there's still the issue of not being able to see the skater's feet when they are close to that board (it's why Lysacek put ALL of his Triple Axels in this spot, in his two most successful seasons), and you'll still not have the best perspective when the skater is at far ends of the rink.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
It's good you've brought some perspective! The people trying to claim Kostornaia as best female Axel need to look at some older skaters, especially Midori Ito. The person who claimed Zagitova as best 3Flip is, um, *deleted*.

I KNOW. But you linked someone else yet again lol

I think Wakaba did a great one at Nationals LP this season, too, but the prep was too long because she was setting up for a triple.

All of those things are seen, if the broadcast quality is sufficient enough. Viewing live does not give a better perspective, most live seats are actually worse, and there's literally no way to see everything a skater does precisely from a live perspective. If you are next to the boards, then you can't see the skater's feet as they pass by you, and if you sit too far back then you are obviously further away from details. I think the ideal place to sit at a competition is right behind the judges, but there's still the issue of not being able to see the skater's feet when they are close to that board (it's why Lysacek put ALL of his Triple Axels in this spot, in his two most successful seasons), and you'll still not have the best perspective when the skater is at far ends of the rink.

I'm pretty sure no explanation can lead to them being convinced though.
 

Sabrina

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Best quad Lz: Jin Boyang when he was on
Best Sal Javier Fernandez
Best quad Tow Alexei Yagudin Olympics 2002
Best quad loop Yuzuru Hanyu
Best Axel Han Yan
Best 3 Lz ladies: Elizabeta Tutkamisheva (Spelling?)
Best spins: Lucinda Ruh; Julia Lipinskaya was an amazing spinner and she has the best I spin
Best Ina Bauer : Julia Lipniskaya and S. Arakawa
Best spirals Sasha Cohen
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
That throw was glorious, glorious! Took my breath away when I saw it. And the height! The distance! So beautiful!

In terms of quad combos you gotta love Plushy' 4T-3T-3L that was nuts!

https://youtu.be/_SSN9M4E-Gw

Viktor Petrenko's 3A was incredible!

https://youtu.be/XCLtneR1t1o

I consider Plushy's Tribute to Njinsky straight line footwork the greatest example of it of all time, but I don't know the the technical necessities of that so...

ETA: Also how nice is this 4T-3T from a guy with four screws in his back. That's technique right there

https://youtu.be/nY8jU9YGfhE

One of the few things we can say objectively is that Plushenko has the best 4T+3T+3Lo 😂😂.

Also objectively we can say Kevin Van Der Perren has best 4T+3T+3T.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
I really want to see some more steps people consider the best.

Oh also, er, I would personally love a particular element someone considers the best. It's hard to do with spin *positions* and field moves so forget it there, but I think we can all discover not only fantastic elements but performances we might never have seen before if we did that for jumps, spins, and steps? Impossible for all of Chan's 4T attempts and step sequences to have all simultaneously been the best ever, for instance. Or all of Lambiel's spins or Sakamoto's Loops.
 

chanchan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Best quad Lutz: Mikhail Kolyadaat CoC
Best quad Flip: Nathan Chen
Best quad Loop: Yuzuru Hanyu
Best quad Sal: Javier Fernanderz
Best quad Toe: Patrick Chan
Best triple Axel: Ilia Kiulik
Best triple Lutz: (men)Mikhail Kolyada (ladies) Elizabeth Tuktamisheva
Best triple Flip: (men)Jason Brown (ladies) Yuna Kim
Best triple Loop: (ladies) Kaori Sakamoto
 

EyesOfLove

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
So elated to have the chance to rhapsodize over Miyahara's layback spin: https://youtu.be/FqKIEKUEVAs?t=253 So beautiful, steady, conscientiously-executed, true-to-basics, as is her skating in general. Evokes a cluster of flower petals floating and pirouetting in the air, endlessly, as if it would never come down. This is one of the very few laybacks in IJS that I think deserve some kind of credit over others.
 

Fourleaf Clover

Rinkside
Joined
May 7, 2020
Country
Philippines
4Lz- Boyang Jin
4F- Nathan Chen
4Lo- Yuzuru Hanyu
4S- Yuzuru Hanyu/ Javier Fernandez
3A- Yuzuru Hanyu

Skating Skills- Patrick Chan
Spins- Stephane Lambiel overall (though I love Hanyu's extremely low sit spins)
Layback Ina Bauer - Shizuka Arakawa
Layback Spin- Satoko Miyahara / Karen Chen
I Spin- Yulia Lipnitskaya
Illussion Spin - Adelina Sotnikova

* I think overall, Hanyu has the most beautiful jumps. His upper body was relaxed and his jumps have this distinct floaty/ airy quality. He also does not require a lot of preparations.

* Nathan " Quad King" Chen has the consistency in landing jumps. Partly because he can complete the necessary rotations even if his jumps were not that big. You can say that his technique was efficient but won't give you the wow factor. (Sorry if there's something wrong with my spelling or grammar. I'm not a native speaker).
 

Allikat

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Country
United-States
Not precisely what was asked for by the OP, but as an 'old lady of 71' here, longtime skating fan since the 1960s, I gotta mention my favorite spinner of all time: Lucinda Ruh. Only I am not singling out ONE type of spin, it's all of them she performed and/or outright invented, that still give me chills to watch after all these years. I'm not technically gifted enough to put examples for you here, but you can find many noteable instances if you look for "Lucinda Ruh spinning" using YouTube's search bar. Her Pancake spin, with arms slowly ascending over her back, never slowing down until she's finished; her various layback positions, which are so fast and long-held; the spin (don't know what it's called) where she tucks up one leg (not quite pancake-style) while her arms slowly descend towards the ice, looking like a bird landing gently on water; her fast, blurring spins, sometimes headless, which go faster and faster and always end perfectly. Did I mention her centering ability? The only incredible spin I can't recall her doing--and I may be forgetting--is an actual Pearl spin, a la Caroline Zhang (another true spine-tingler, for me). But I will go look at more examples.

It made me heartsick to learn that Lucinda spent so much effort and time spinning that eventually she developed brain damage from it, and can no longer spin on ice at all. I truly hope her health condition today is as decent as possible, under those unfortunate circumstances.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
The best spins for me are spins of Kamila and Yulia. :luv17:
Aliona's 3A is the most perfect jump everrr :hap10:
 

EyesOfLove

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Not precisely what was asked for by the OP, but as an 'old lady of 71' here, longtime skating fan since the 1960s, I gotta mention my favorite spinner of all time: Lucinda Ruh. Only I am not singling out ONE type of spin, it's all of them she performed and/or outright invented, that still give me chills to watch after all these years. I'm not technically gifted enough to put examples for you here, but you can find many noteable instances if you look for "Lucinda Ruh spinning" using YouTube's search bar. Her Pancake spin, with arms slowly ascending over her back, never slowing down until she's finished; her various layback positions, which are so fast and long-held; the spin (don't know what it's called) where she tucks up one leg (not quite pancake-style) while her arms slowly descend towards the ice, looking like a bird landing gently on water; her fast, blurring spins, sometimes headless, which go faster and faster and always end perfectly. Did I mention her centering ability? The only incredible spin I can't recall her doing--and I may be forgetting--is an actual Pearl spin, a la Caroline Zhang (another true spine-tingler, for me). But I will go look at more examples.

It made me heartsick to learn that Lucinda spent so much effort and time spinning that eventually she developed brain damage from it, and can no longer spin on ice at all. I truly hope her health condition today is as decent as possible, under those unfortunate circumstances.

https://youtu.be/M0fvU4wnp34?t=221 That last scratch spin!
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
It's good you've brought some perspective! The people trying to claim Kostornaia as best female Axel need to look at some older skaters, especially Midori Ito. The person who claimed Zagitova as best 3Flip is, um, *deleted*.

I was not talking about skaters with best flips, but about one best triple jump, which is the topic of this tread - not skaters, but one jump done by any skater. I was being fairly specific - it is triple Flip by Alina in short program at Olympics. It checked literally all the bullet points. 3Lo by Kaori at 2019 Worlds is on that level too, deserving max GOE. But if i need to vote for one triple jump, i would vote for that 3F, just because the context in which jump is produced. I didn't go that far in history, because in the past jumps might have different requirements on which they are judged on, and i'm not fully familiar with those.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
I was not talking about skaters with best flips, but about one best triple jump, which is the topic of this tread - not skaters, but one jump done by any skater.
I don't agree with any of Zagitova's Flips being that great (which is what Blades was implying) but I am grateful you at least tried to stick to the topic lol. It kind of stopped being about specific elements after that post about Chan just having the best 4T no matter what and all the other ones in that post instead of pointing at any specific elements based off "personal experience". No one can have watched all elements ever to make such judgment calls lol. But we can see which skaters have great technique on an element and backtrack through their performances, instead of having watched them somewhere and claiming that it is a permanent reality no matter what happened in that specific performance you happened to watch.

On that note, I will disagree with Chan's 4T, or Kostornaia's 3F+3T, or Osmond's 3F+3T being among the best. Osmond's was often off-axis, Kostornaia's often lands on an edge that is too flat, and Chan's 4T is definitely not as big as Lambiel's. Jin's head position making his 4Lz worse than it is also isn't any sort of technically sound opinion, it's purely someone's aesthetic and personal bias - not interested in those, as already stated. It makes his axis the most stable of anyone attempting it anyway, so that's one gain in quality being ignored by bias - so consider being balanced in your evaluation. Chan's step sequences had great edging and flow, but the best footwork also needs to take into consideration the rhythm and musicality that Chan's often lacked. And for the record, I also don't really care if you like a skater and will say all their elements are great, and dislike someone else so will never give them the deserved credit. Not the point of the thread, as far as I intended.

I will also disagree with everyone who has stated Valieva's spins are great - the position changes are often clunky and she sometimes even loses her edge. I do agree with Lipnitskaya's, however, especially that phenomenal speed control she showed in her hyper-extended I-Spin, both accelerating and often changing the way her torso was positioned - even with the music when she was on.

I am also interested in what Blades himself wants to consider the best? He seems to be opinionated about this!
 
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