Non Controversial Olympic Wins | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Non Controversial Olympic Wins

starlight97

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Yuna Kim - 2010
The clearest, indisputable win in a long time and for a long time imo. The strongest competitor going in, the favorite, the strongest performance, 2 clean programs, highest marks, win.

Alina's win also should have been uncontroversial since all of the above also applied to her in February 2018. (Yes, after beating Evgenia at Euros and seeing their content and how it had been scoring, she was the favorite to win)
 

Greengemmonster

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
Yuna Kim - 2010
The clearest, indisputable win in a long time and for a long time imo. The strongest competitor going in, the favorite, the strongest performance, 2 clean programs, highest marks, win.

Alina's win also should have been uncontroversial since all of the above also applied to her in February 2018. (Yes, after beating Evgenia at Euros and seeing their content and how it had been scoring, she was the favorite to win)

I thought both Alina and Zhenya performed brilliantly and I love Zhenya but I still fail to see why some think Alina's win was controversial.

She had a higher BV and skated like a boss. The performance itself was charming. She was given lower PCS in both SP and LP. There was nothing hokey going on. She won it fair and square.

I get why some feel Zhenya deserved to win and her performance was amazing but Alina's win certainly wasn't doctored up to favor Alina. Had she not saved her lutzloop with ninja precision she would have lost it.

I'm glad Alina backloaded all her jumps. It was revolutionary, she nailed it and in my eyes she'll always be the special bad@ss who did all her jumps in the second half, nailed them and won the gold.
 

Ziotic

Medalist
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
My biggest issue with Alina was the PCS score in the short. It was way to high, Her black swan program was rushed and the ice coverage is atrocious. She literally only covers the ice surface 3 times from end to end most other skaters do 5-7. She shouldn’t have been ahead of Osmond or IMO Miyahara for that matter.
Maybe 35.9 - 36.4 range.
Which is the range that would have made the different between gold and silver. I wouldn’t say it was “controversial” but it could have gone either way without the inflated PCS she received.
 

Ladybug89

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
In my opinion (only considering first places not the other medal positions):

(starting from 1998 when I started watching... no Dance as I am no expert there)

Men: 1998, 2002, 2006, 2014, 2018
Ladies: 2006, 2010
Pairs: 1998, 2006, I think 2010 but the results are close and I don’t really remember it too well, 2014 (VT definitley overscored but still the right winners) 2018 (even though it was close)


For Ladies 2002 I want to add that I think the mistake here was made in the Short Program where Michelle scored by one vote over Irina. Irina must have won the short imo what would have made her win overall. Considering that underrotations weren‘t really punished back then I think Sarah winning the LP is more or less correct.
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Irina could not win 2002. It would render the hosts goldless. Period.

The WC-1999 almost sent the FS to her not so bright destiny. So ISU might not risking everything.

The practice of conspiracy in her glance.
 

randomfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
My biggest issue with Alina was the PCS score in the short. It was way to high, Her black swan program was rushed and the ice coverage is atrocious. She literally only covers the ice surface 3 times from end to end most other skaters do 5-7. She shouldn’t have been ahead of Osmond or IMO Miyahara for that matter.
Maybe 35.9 - 36.4 range.
Which is the range that would have made the different between gold and silver. I wouldn’t say it was “controversial” but it could have gone either way without the inflated PCS she received.

Even 35.9-36.4 seems way too high. I'd say max 32-33.

And it wasn't just the SP. I know everyone loves her DQ program because of how the jumps are impressively timed with the music, but it's problematic when that appears to be the only purpose the layout is serving. Landing all jumps on the music during an upbeat section is great and all, but there really doesn't seem to be any artistic reasoning for making the program like that beyond just backloading and finding a way for people to forget how it makes the program so unbalanced. That really isn't a good-enough reason to give such high PE, CO, and IN. I'm completely fine with her TES since she undoubtedly destroyed everyone else there, but her PCS really shouldn't have been anywhere close to a 70 (actually I still think she has not yet delivered 70+ performance even to this day, but that's a different story).

And no, I'm not talking in favor of Evgenia instead. In fact, neither of them were the winners for me but I'll stop here since I know that's an unpopular opinion and we're getting close to the :eek:topic: zone. :biggrin:
 

Ladybug89

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Irina could not win 2002. It would render the hosts goldless. Period.

.

well saying this - and I think it‘s sadly true - does make this decision very controversial..(and not much better than 2014... )

it was still so close... she had a 4:5 first place voting in the short and a 4:5 1st place voting against her in the long... only one first place more - not matter where would have given her the gold.
I am still grieving about it as you can tell...
well and as I said above I think it was the short she should have won... and yes - probably would have won if that competition had been held anywhere outside of the US...
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
I have never been Sarah's biggest fan however, her win was not at all shocking to me after that brilliant Free Program.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
I have never been Sarah's biggest fan however, her win was not at all shocking to me after that brilliant Free Program.

Absolutely. Sarah's magical performance "on the day" was the very essence of a brilliant gold medal skate.

slightly OT: At the time, my book group discussed it briefly, and I'll never forget one friend saying "...but I don't care who you are, your body can do more things when you're 16 ..." This was her comment, as a casual (every 4-year) skating fan, and as a woman. Even though Sarah's physical development was more mature than, say, Tara's at 15. My friend's remark lies right there on the argument that 15 and 16 year old girls competing against older teen-agers and women gives the younger ones an advantage, if all things skill-wise are otherwise more or less equal.
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Sticking with gold medallists only:

Virtue/Moir 2010 and 2018
Savchenko/Massot 2018
Hanyu 2018
Mishkutionok/Dmitriev
Kazakova/Dmitriev
Torvill/Dean
Yagudin
Plushenko
Kulik
Volosozhar/Trankov
Totmianina/Marinin
Gordieva/Grinkov #1
Yuna Kim
Shen/Zhao
Klimova/Ponomorenko
Kristi Yamaguchi
Shizuka Arakawa
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
My biggest issue with Alina was the PCS score in the short. It was way to high, Her black swan program was rushed and the ice coverage is atrocious. She literally only covers the ice surface 3 times from end to end most other skaters do 5-7. She shouldn’t have been ahead of Osmond or IMO Miyahara for that matter.
Maybe 35.9 - 36.4 range.
Which is the range that would have made the different between gold and silver. I wouldn’t say it was “controversial” but it could have gone either way without the inflated PCS she received.

To this day I firmly believe that Kaetlyn Osmond should have won in 2018. She was handicapped from the start because everyone went in with the assumption that the battle for gold was between the two Russians and she was never truly considered.

I also argue that Carolina Kostner should have been the rightful gold medallist in 2014, with Kim second and Sotnikova third. Kim was good, and certainly deserved to win in 2010, but in 2014 Kostner had the magic.

I realize both of these are unpopular opinions. For the purposes of this thread, I'm astonished that anyone would suggest Zagitova's win wasn't controversial. Even if you disagree with me, there was a very loud contingent who argue to this day that Medvedeva should have won gold in 2018. And of course 2014 ladies is one of the most hotly debated results in history.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Yuna Kim - 2010
The clearest, indisputable win in a long time and for a long time imo. The strongest competitor going in, the favorite, the strongest performance, 2 clean programs, highest marks, win.

Alina's win also should have been uncontroversial since all of the above also applied to her in February 2018. (Yes, after beating Evgenia at Euros and seeing their content and how it had been scoring, she was the favorite to win)

Idk, i thought the score gap was a little ridiculous especially in the short program were i actually preferred Mao Asada: only skater of the event with the 3a, more difficult steps sequence, better extension in the spiral sequence, less speed for sure.

Overall Yuna deserved the gold cause she was better in the free, just the gap was not completely justified.
 

lzxnl

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Idk, i thought the score gap was a little ridiculous especially in the short program were i actually preferred Mao Asada: only skater of the event with the 3a, more difficult steps sequence, better extension in the spiral sequence, less speed for sure.

Overall Yuna deserved the gold cause she was better in the free, just the gap was not completely justified.

3A-2T is actually worth less than a 3Lz-3T, especially with Yuna's better jump execution overall. I think Yuna's SP lead was, give or take a point or two, where it should have been actually.
 

Greengemmonster

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
I just watched Mao's SP performance again. Love the step sequence!

It doesn't make sense! Why didn't she do a 3Lz-3T, 3A and a 3F??? That's what they would all be doing now if they have a 3A!

Why did she combo the 3A with a 2T?

I was only a casual watcher back then so never really paid attention to BV etc whereas now BV is almost everything!
 

Elaine

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
I just watched Mao's SP performance again. Love the step sequence!

It doesn't make sense! Why didn't she do a 3Lz-3T, 3A and a 3F??? That's what they would all be doing now if they have a 3A!

Why did she combo the 3A with a 2T?

I was only a casual watcher back then so never really paid attention to BV etc whereas now BV is almost everything!

Back then it wasn't allowed to do a solo 3A for the required axel in SP. Even if it had been allowed, her layout would have been 3A, 3F+2Lo, and 3Lo because she had neither a Lutz nor (more importantly) a stable 3+3, which was actually the very reason why she, even with her 3As, couldn't have much of advantage in BV over Yuna. (Mao also didn't have a salchow back then. No 3Lz, no 3+3 and no 3S made her plan a solo 3T(!) in LP which she popped at 2010 OG)
 

Greengemmonster

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
Back then it wasn't allowed to do a solo 3A for the required axel in SP. Even if it had been allowed, her layout would have been 3A, 3F+2Lo, and 3Lo because she had neither a Lutz nor (more importantly) a stable 3+3, which was actually the very reason why she, even with her 3As, couldn't have much of advantage in BV over Yuna. (Mao also didn't have a salchow back then. No 3Lz, no 3+3 and no 3S made her plan a solo 3T(!) in LP which she popped at 2010 OG)

Thank you for explaining this! I LOVE learning these tidbits about the past!
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
3A-2T is actually worth less than a 3Lz-3T, especially with Yuna's better jump execution overall. I think Yuna's SP lead was, give or take a point or two, where it should have been actually.

Yeah which to me was an example of bad rules (still a thing in juniors sadly), cause 3A is a much harder element than a 3Ltz and as happened other times before and after, judges should have rewarded Mao for attempting an element no one else had.

With the 3A allowed as solo element, she could have gone for the 3flip-3lo but again maybe judges would have called the underrotation as they did with Miki Ando's lutz-loop, considering somehow Mao got negative GOE on the solo 3F which was cleanly landed.
 

lzxnl

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Yeah which to me was an example of bad rules (still a thing in juniors sadly), cause 3A is a much harder element than a 3Ltz and as happened other times before and after, judges should have rewarded Mao for attempting an element no one else had.

With the 3A allowed as solo element, she could have gone for the 3flip-3lo but again maybe judges would have called the underrotation as they did with Miki Ando's lutz-loop, considering somehow Mao got negative GOE on the solo 3F which was cleanly landed.

I don't think she had a 3F-3Lo in 2010. She tried the layout you mentioned in 2014, and while it didn't work at the Olympics, she won Worlds that year with 3A, 3F-3Lo, 3Lz and set a world record with it iirc.
 
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