A question regarding names of Russian figure skaters

ancientpeas · Jul 11, 2020

Mathman said:
For GSers who are not up on their 1960s U.S. children's cartoon shows , the Rocky (the flying squirrel) and Bullwinkle (the moose) show featured a cartoon villain named "Boris Bad-enov"-- a spoof on (Tsar) Boris Godenov (pronounced like "good enough"). He had a sidekick, the spy Natasha.

As for me, I was in love with Natasha (Natalya) the character from Tolstoi's War and Peace.

I wonder if Russians like Rocky and Bullwinkle. I wonder if there are similar children's cartoons of the same era where Americans are plotting to take over the world and a thwarted by cute (but one rather foolish) Russian Animals.

AND BY FOOLISH I MEAN ROCKY. Bullwinkle4eva!

dlco · Jul 11, 2020

ancientpeas said:
I wonder if Russians like Rocky and Bullwinkle.

It's not well known in Russia, but we are aware that Boris and Natasha exist since Americans often recall them talking about Russia.

ancientpeas said:
I wonder if there are similar children's cartoons of the same era where Americans are plotting to take over the world and a thwarted by cute (but one rather foolish) Russian Animals.

There was no Soviet cartoons about evil American spies, as far as I remember. Official Soviet ideology was strongly against xenophobia. In fact, only cartoon about Americans I can recall is "Mister Twister" which makes fun of rich American racist https://youtu.be/uH7w4aT2Ato (1963, based on 1933 poem of Samuil Marshak).

ancientpeas · Jul 11, 2020

dlco said:
It's not well known in Russia, but we are aware that Boris and Natasha exist since Americans often recall them talking about Russia.

There was no Soviet cartoons about evil American spies, as far as I remember. Official Soviet ideology was strongly against xenophobia. In fact, only cartoon about Americans I can recall is "Mister Twister" which makes fun of rich American racist https://youtu.be/uH7w4aT2Ato (1963, based on 1933 poem of Samuil Marshak).

I can only get Portuguese subtitles but the animation style is very cool.

dlco · Jul 11, 2020

ancientpeas said:
I can only get Portuguese subtitles but the animation style is very cool.

One of creators of this cartoon was the great Russian animator Yuri Norstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Norstein
In short, it's about mister Twister, a former minister, busynessman and banker, who took a trip to Leningrad and was absolutely outraged that there is no racial segregation in the Soviet Union. It was based on true story. In 1930 some American tourist refused to stay in hotel in Leningrad because there was Black guest.
(added) There is English translation - https://books.google.ru/books?id=3DPTNtJn9nYC&pg=PA201&lpg=PA201#v=onepage&q&f=false

lariko · Jul 11, 2020

vorravorra said:
I wish names like Alevtina and Akulina would come back. Once the peasants/merchant class stopped using them they disappeared. At least we had a return of Varvara, Daria, to an extent Anfisa, Taisia. But Aksinia, Pelageya, Glafira, Agafia, Aglaia are also lovely names that are not really used anymore and instead we get a million Anastasias. In my day it was a million Tatianas. Never understood why you would give your child a name about every fifth girl seems to have.

Svetlana is actually a made-up name introduced as late as the 19th century rather than an genuine old Slavic name. I have not really encountered the use of different nicknames to tell different "Yelenas" apart. All four Tatianas in my class were called Tania, all Yelenas were called Lena, all Annas were called Anya etc.

There are Latin names (including such staples as Natalia, Yulia, Roman, Sergei and Pavel) as well as Greek names, as well as some old Hebrew like Ilya in common Russian usage. But Greek ones obviously predominate due to the origin of the religion.

My peer groups were always using nicknames when names repeated, perhaps it differs in different generations.

When I look at the names of figure skaters in current generation they seem to be far more variable than it was in my age group. I did grow up with a couple of Kseniyas and had a Raisa in my grandmother’s generation

siela · Jul 12, 2020

lariko said:
My peer groups were always using nicknames when names repeated, perhaps it differs in different generations.

When I look at the names of figure skaters in current generation they seem to be far more variable than it was in my age group. I did grow up with a couple of Kseniyas and had a Raisa in my grandmother’s generation

I my generation, people with same full names usually also had the same short forms and were addressed as such. But when they were talked about in third person, they more often than not were called differently. e.g. there were two Irinas of approximately the same age (they were two years apart) living in the same building were I lived. Both of them went by Ira. But when talked about they went by 'Ira big' and 'Irochka small'.

Rina RUS · Jul 12, 2020

Flying Feijoa said:
On a separate but related note, I would love to know why Google Translate always translates the Russian for 'toeloop' into 'sheepskin coat'! Also 'skating' sometimes becomes 'riding'... and 'test skate' becomes 'rental' (I think).

I know one more nice word. :coffee:

Google-translate turns pair skaters into glass-houses. Or hothouses? (for growing plants)
A pair skater in Russian is "parnik" (the stress is on the first syllable).
The word for a glass-house looks the same: "parnik" - but the stress is on the second syllable.

When google-translate translates from English to other languages, it can turn figure skating fans into "ventilators" (blowing machines). :coffee:

dorispulaski · Jul 12, 2020

In my sixth grade class, we had seven Linda's and eight Roberts.

The teacher used their name and an initial to call on them. However, with so many with the same name, there were bound to be further conflicts.

Linda Jean Sahanen and Linda Jean Senew went through that entire year as LindaSah and LindaSen, pronounced as single words.

Also, the tendency to repeat names is very strong in my family. For as far back as we know, boys are mostly William, John, and James. The first of our family to come to this country was Peter- so we all assume he was like a 5th or 6th son :laugh:

By this you know that they were not Cavaliers, politically (no Charlie's)

When I was young, we had four living guys all named Wiiliam Carroll.

They went by Carroll (or Cap (when he was old) and Cat (when he was young)), Bill, Billy, and Little Billy who grew up to be called Bill 4. (The Carroll was originally a last name. )

Another family I know calls one boy every generation Benjamin Franklin.

They cycle through the following nicknames Ben, Franklin, and BF.

Do Russians ever use initials as nicknames?

Do they ever use wives' last names as first names?

ancientpeas · Jul 12, 2020

dorispulaski said:
In my sixth grade class, we had seven Linda's and eight Roberts.

The teacher used their name and an initial to call on them. However, with so many with the same name, there were bound to be further conflicts.

Linda Jean Sahanen and Linda Jean Senew went through that entire year as LindaSah and LindaSen, pronounced as single words.

Also, the tendency to repeat names is very strong in my family. For as far back as we know, boys are mostly William, John, and James. The first of our family to come to this country was Peter- so we all assume he was like a 5th or 6th son By this you know that they were not Cavaliers, politically (no Charlie's)

When I was young, we had four living guys all named Wiiliam Carroll.

They went by Carroll (or Cap (when he was old) and Cat (when he was young)), Bill, Billy, and Little Billy who grew up to be called Bill 4. (The Carroll was originally a last name. )

Another family I know calls one boy every generation Benjamin Franklin.

They cycle through the following nicknames Ben, Franklin, and BF.

Do Russians ever use initials as nicknames?

Do they ever use wives' last names as first names?

Isn't the wives last name as first names a mostly Southern U.S. thing? Also.. since that is often a security question if you are named your mother's maiden name it becomes kind of easy for people to guess, doesn't it?

I guess in families you would get used to it. If you had 6 Richards you'd find a way. But in fandom I think it's harder. Having 15 different versions of the same name is confusing.
I often refer to countries with multiple ID teams as Italia I and Italia II like they are bobsledders. I do this not because I don't know their names (although sometimes spelling is an issue for me.. I can't spell phonetically so it's all memorized) but because it amuses me. Then again I have given nearly every friend I have a nickname.

I feel for the Linda Jeans...I would have gone by L.J. if I was them.

Rina RUS · Jul 12, 2020

dorispulaski said:
Do Russians ever use initials as nicknames?

I think people can write "Masha P", when they write, but if they speak, they usually add the full last name: "Masha Petrova". I think it sounds more natural.

dorispulaski said:
Do they ever use wives' last names as first names?

To say the truth, I don't understand this question.
Of course, it is possible to say "Petrova's husband" about Tikhonov.
Of course, Tikhonov can say "Petrova", when he speaks about his wife. Not every husband does so, but using last name is always possible. (In many cases it can sound rude, so when being polite is important, people prefer to say: "Maria Petrova".)
But if this question is about saying something like "Petrova Tikhonov" instead of "Alexei Tikhonov", Russians don't do so.

Teachers at school often say only the last name of a student. As for students (especially kids), they should say "Tatiana Anatolievna" when they talk to their teacher or about their teacher. (the name with the patronymic) Not "Mrs.Tarasova" or anything else.

When students talk about a teacher, sometimes they use initials as a nickname: "T.A." or "E.G." (it is rude, but it is short)
TAT is initials too: Tatiana Anatolievna Tarasova.

ancientpeas · Jul 12, 2020

Rina RUS said:
I think people can write "Masha P", when they write, but if they speak, they usually add the full last name: "Masha Petrova". I think it sounds more natural.

To say the truth, I don't understand this question.
Of course, it is possible to say "Petrova's husband" about Tikhonov.
Of course, Tikhonov can say "Petrova", when he speaks about his wife. Not every husband does so, but using last name is always possible. (In many cases it can sound rude, so when being polite is important, people prefer to say: "Maria Petrova".)
But if this question is about saying something like "Petrova Tikhonov" instead of "Alexei Tikhonov", Russians don't do so.

Teachers at school often say only the last name of a student. As for students (especially kids), they should say "Tatiana Anatolievna" when they talk to their teacher or about their teacher. (the name with the patronymic) Not "Mrs.Tarasova" or anything else.

When students talk about a teacher, sometimes they use initials as a nickname: "T.A." or "E.G." (it is rude, but it is short)
TAT is initials too: Tatiana Anatolievna Tarasova.

That's interesting.

The thing with using the mother's maiden name as a first name for the first daughter is kind of a Southern U.S. tradition (If I understand it correctly). So say you were Elizabeth Ashton and you married John Bennett you might give your first daughter the name Ashton Bennett. I think it was meant to pay tribute to the wives family.

lariko · Jul 12, 2020

There is only one case of initials used as a nickname I can think of from my past, but the nickname was a word that started with these three letters.

Now that I think of it, it was peculiarly uncommon vs how easily English speakers go to initial-based nicknames.

But it could be changing, particularly in FS where pairs often called by one surname initial from each partner— but I am not sure if I saw the direct rendering of it in Russian speaking articles? I am kindda curious now.

moriel · Jul 12, 2020

dorispulaski said:
1. Do Russians ever use initials as nicknames?

2. Do they ever use wives' last names as first names?

1. Not ver common. Id say that, for adults, its more common to use first name + patronimic or patronimic or any derivative of those (yep, you can have an Alexander Alexandrovich shortened to San Sanych, for example). first name + patronimic is a respectful treatment, usually for senior people (in age or in rank, so older people, bosses, teachers, coaches - Eteri Georgivna, Tatiana Anatolievna, Daniil Markovich), while the second for is either for friends or the way small kids call their teachers in kindergarten.

2. Never say never (i mean, I do have two Olimpiadas in my family, so why not a last name), but this surely is very uncommon.

Rina RUS · Jul 12, 2020

ancientpeas said:
The thing with using the mother's maiden name as a first name for the first daughter is kind of a Southern U.S. tradition (If I understand it correctly). So say you were Elizabeth Ashton and you married John Bennett you might give your first daughter the name Ashton Bennett. I think it was meant to pay tribute to the wives family.

It seems I never heard about Russians turning their last name into a name for their kid.

Yet there is a group of "soviet" names. For example, "Marlen" means "Marx and Lenin". "Ninel" = "Lenin" read backwards. "Rem" means "Revolution, Engels, Marx". And many things like "Electrification", "Aviation" were turned into names too... Some names are really weird. :coffee:

Partly it can be funny, but you know... it is also like a fairy tale. Like an epic tale. There was a country where people believed that electrification and common good were more important than some interests of their family. Where people were ready to be "heroes of labour"... Partly this tale is sad, but it is epic anyway.

moriel · Jul 12, 2020

lariko said:
There is only one case of initials used as a nickname I can think of from my past, but the nickname was a word that started with these three letters.

Now that I think of it, it was peculiarly uncommon vs how easily English speakers go to initial-based nicknames.

But it could be changing, particularly in FS where pairs often called by one surname initial from each partner— but I am not sure if I saw the direct rendering of it in Russian speaking articles? I am kindda curious now.

For pairs / dance, I see russians making some sort of pet names rather than using the initials directly (but they use initials too). So you have stuff like "Ryzhiki" (redheads) for Tarasova and Morozov, or Boikozliki (someting like "litte fighter goats" hehe) for Boikova and Kozlovskii.

Rina RUS · Jul 12, 2020

The best thing about patronymics is that sometimes you understand that you are expected to speak politely, but you don't remember the name and the patronymic of a person. So I have to start with "Excuse me, please..." - and add everything I was going to say or to ask.
Often Russians ask each other quietly: "Do you remember his name and patronymic?" :coffee:

el henry · Jul 12, 2020

ancientpeas said:
Isn't the wives last name as first names a mostly Southern U.S. thing? Also.. since that is often a security question if you are named your mother's maiden name it becomes kind of easy for people to guess, doesn't it?

I guess in families you would get used to it. If you had 6 Richards you'd find a way. But in fandom I think it's harder. Having 15 different versions of the same name is confusing.
I often refer to countries with multiple ID teams as Italia I and Italia II like they are bobsledders. I do this not because I don't know their names (although sometimes spelling is an issue for me.. I can't spell phonetically so it's all memorized) but because it amuses me. Then again I have given nearly every friend I have a nickname.

I feel for the Linda Jeans...I would have gone by L.J. if I was them.

I don't know about Southerners, but we had a ton of women and men in my family with mother's last (birth) name as middle name. My great grandmother's last name was Stewart, and both her daughter (grandma) and her son had the middle name of Stewart, and uncle was Uncle Stewart because his first name was his father's first name, but the middle name was different, so he wasn't a junior. My dad's side was the same thing. My dad's first name was his dad's first name, but his middle name was different.

I always thought it was a British Isles type thing, since that is my ancestry. Why not just go full on junior?

Patrynomics definitely make more sense :laugh:

flanker · Jul 12, 2020

Rina RUS said:
It seems I never heard about Russians turning their last name into a name for their kid.

Yet there is a group of "soviet" names. For example, "Marlen" means "Marx and Lenin". "Ninel" = "Lenin" read backwards. "Rem" means "Revolution, Engels, Marx". And many things like "Electrification", "Aviation" were turned into names too... Some names are really weird.

Partly it can be funny, but you know... it is also like a fairy tale. Like an epic tale. There was a country where people believed that electrification and common good were more important than some interests of their family. Where people were ready to be "heroes of labour"... Partly this tale is sad, but it is epic anyway.

I've met with that in a name of the renowned movie director Elem Klimov (Engels, Lenin, Marx).

Rina RUS · Jul 12, 2020

moriel said:
For pairs / dance, I see russians making some sort of pet names rather than using the initials directly (but they use initials too)

I saw "EP" used for Evgeni Plushenko. (as for google-translate, it thinks that "EP" means "European Parliament") :clapper:

I like that it seems to be clear that "TTMM" always means "Totmianina, Marinin".

In other cases for me the name "Sotnikova" is shorter than a conversation like this:
"Oh, so this Sot means Sotnikova?"
"Yes, of course"
"I thought about Sotskova, so I was surprised, when I read..."
Such a conversation can start even three pages later after mentioning "Sot" or some initials of a pair :coffee:

lariko · Jul 12, 2020

moriel said:
For pairs / dance, I see russians making some sort of pet names rather than using the initials directly (but they use initials too). So you have stuff like "Ryzhiki" (redheads) for Tarasova and Morozov, or Boikozliki (someting like "litte fighter goats" hehe) for Boikova and Kozlovskii.

I think this is consistent with English-speaking practice of mixing two names, usually as ‘ship name’ i.e. Brangelina

A question regarding names of Russian figure skaters

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

dlco

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

dlco

lariko

siela

Rina RUS

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

Rina RUS

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

lariko

moriel

Rina RUS

moriel

Rina RUS

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

flanker

Rina RUS

lariko

Connect with us