Alena Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

vorravorra · Aug 3, 2020

It's interesting that Eteri kept complaining about skaters leaving her not having the courage to tell her to her face. Alyona showed that courage and Eteri hit the roof as the result. Maybe those who avoided a personal goodbye were onto something after all.

Jeanie19 · Aug 3, 2020

TontoK said:
That was fascinating. I tend to agree with Irina Slutskaya: "It's not worth dramatizing."

That was my favorite response, too.

TallyT · Aug 3, 2020

macy said:
Let me rephrase this.

YOU do not like Anna because of her "excessive prerotation" and "poor skating skills"

I'd suggest that it's a little more than that; wasn't Shcherbakova the one who kept getting dinged, which was followed by a protest letter from the Russian Fed, which oooh lookee!!! - led to a sudden and pretty pointed change in judging standards?

If I've got the wrong girl I apologise... but if the right one, it makes sense. People tend not to care for those they see, rightly or wrongly, as "TPTB's pets"...

yume · Aug 3, 2020

TallyT said:
I'd suggest that it's a little more than that; wasn't Shcherbakova the one who kept getting dinged, which was followed by a protest letter from the Russian Fed, which oooh lookee!!! - led to a sudden and pretty pointed change in judging standards?

If I've got the wrong girl I apologise... but if the right one, it makes sense. People tend not to care for those they see, rightly or wrongly, as "TPTB's pets"...

I think fed also got infuriated after the surprisingly harsh judging of GP France.

TallyT · Aug 3, 2020

yume said:
I think fed also got infuriated after the surprisingly harsh judging of GP France.

That may be, but it doesn't change the perception - if I am right, which I might not be - of the beneficiary, human nature being what it is. I have nothing against Shcherbakova (I find her innocuous) and given her new status as Last Girl Standing at Sambo, she probably will be able to overcome that for some of her critics.

Scott512 · Aug 3, 2020

esteticlove said:
It's strange how people think that a figure skater in their very first senior season MUST already have endorsements/sponsorships.. especially in a country where the sport is also funded by the government and the expenses are not that high, as in comparison to the US/Canada. Until now, I always thought that the main goal for a 15-16-year old superstar is first, to win most if not all big competitions and to get selected for the Olympics, and then to aim for the Olympic podium. This alone requires so much work and many many hours on and off the ice, that I can't see how engagements for diverse advertisements etc. can really be helpful for the training program. And it's obvious, that once they come at least close to this goal, the money will follow on its own.

If I am not mistaken, Alina got her Shiseido and Puma contracts only after going on a strike in her debute season and winning it all straight to the Olympic Games. Even after that season, I still had the impression that it took awhile for her to get the expected coverage from the media and the companies. Also, let's not forget that she was actually coming from a family with rather not that much money and still managed to "survive" in Moscow and to establish herself as one of the most successful female skaters in the last decade.

Even Evgenia needed to be on the top for 2 seasons, going into the Olympics as the favourite, to get the Nike contract.

That's why I rather consider the fact that Anna and Sasha got their endorsements that early in their careers is really something exceptional. But as some other users already mentioned, those contracts are not based only on their achievements in this past season. Anna got the attention of the public with a random viedo on YT of her Dreamcatcher program and was hyped eversince. People were just waiting for her to get recovered from her injuries and to compete on the junior, and now on the senior level. And she didn't disappoint. Afterall, she's 2 times National Champion in a time where the field is so deep, that this is kind of equal to winning the Worlds. Sasha, on the other hand, made her name with her quads (which Anna also has, so there's another explanation for the interest around her). And if we look at the time frame, you can also see that it took at least 2-3 years for those girlst to get some sponsorships despite their huge achievements. That's why I dont find it strange that Aliona doesn't have any sponsorships yet. At the end of the day, she got her 3A only last summer and just started to shine above everyone else, by winning most major competitions (GPF, EC).

Well explained and well-detailed. I guess when the time is right aliona will get her sponsors. She deserves them.

Sam-Skwantch said:
I’m still in a state of recovery from reading someone post “who’s Julia” a few pages back

That person knows her as Yulia.

Scott512 · Aug 3, 2020

ballerina said:
Yulia didn't behave "impertinently", especially for no reason... Yes, she didn't exactly have the "happy-go-lucky" attitude, but she had REASONS for that ! It's extremely unfair to blame her and ONLY HER for her sometimes moody expressions or whatever, when there was a bunch of adults around whose job it was to take care of her... and they did NOT !
She was a child (I'm talking about age 10-15 here) who was put under horrendous mental pressure. Initially on family level; a few years later on national level when it was deemed her obligation to win gold at Sochi. As early as at the age of 12-13, the entire LIVELIHOOD of her family (i.e., Yulia & her mother) depended on HER. She was the breadwinner - her mother did NOT even work, until Eteri hired her as an "assistant coach"... which opened a whole another can of worms, let's not go there at the moment.

Initially, from the age of 10 until Yulia became age-eligible for international junior competitions and began earning prize money, the family lived off some savings. It has been widely reported in Russian media that Yulia's mother struggled to find a job in Moscow, and also she probably wouldn't have had time anyway - as a single mother, she had to drive Yulia to the rink etc. as well as homeschool her. So they lived off their savings - they had sold the apartment in Yekaterinburg, their hometown. Then, beginning at 12/13 - they lived off Yulia's earnings, and her mother's "salary" was DIRECTLY tied to Yulia's skating abilities. Also, it has been widely reported in Russian media that Yulia & her mother had to move from one rental apartment in Moscow to another, until she became an Olympic hopeful and Russian Figure Skating Federation started to rent an apartment for Yulia (as well as the 2nd apartment for Adelina Sotnikova, closer to her rink). Again, even their accommodation in Moscow was directly tied to Yulia's skating abilities. Essentially, every time Yulia stepped on ice - she had this additional pressure "if I fall and break something = can't compete = don't earn money = WE ARE SCREWED !!". How are you going to survive ? You can't stay in Moscow because your mother doesn't work and can't support you financially. And it would be extremely complicated (not to mention humiliating) to go back to your hometown, because essentially you have nowhere to return to - the apartment is already sold. I remember that once Yulia had a concussion and was forced to withdraw from some competition(s) which surely meant financial loss.
Is this fair for a 13-y.o. ?!

Secondly, Yulia was suffering from an eating disorder as early as 3 YEARS BEFORE the Olympics. It's rather common to have clinical depression alongside an eating disorder. Of course Eteri knew that ! Everyone knew that, even casual figure skating fans on the web. Did Yulia receive any kind of medical attention ? Of course NOT.
(Off-topic: Remember how Medvedeva was prescribed "vitamins & minerals" in the middle of the Olympic season, AFTER she had already broken her foot ? Why wasn't that taken care of BEFORE she got injured ??)
Instead, Yulia was publicly humiliated by her own coach, Eteri Tutberidze, a mere few weeks before the Olympics - when Eteri gave an interview for the official web page of Sochi Olympics where she said "Yulia can not be allowed to eat AT ALL, I feel very sorry for her". This was the TITLE of that article ! Eteri said that about a girl who - she knew very well - was suffering from an eating disorder ! She added in the article that "I have never in my life encountered a situation like this... [that a girl is too fat and can't lose weight]". The original article was published on the official Sochi Olympics page which is unavailable right now, but it has been re-published on countless other Russian media pages. I provide a link to one of them, as an example, that these articles are still online:
https://www.kp.ru/daily/26189.5/3080113/
Is this fair for a 15-y.o. right before the main competition of her life, in a sport where self-confidence is a major part of success - to be PUBLICLY HUMILIATED by her OWN COACH ?? And this is only one of many times when Eteri talked about Yulia struggling with being "overweight" in the media; I mention this particular example as the loudest and most inappropriate one because of the timing.

Several years later, when Yulia was finally admitted to an eating disorder clinic - who paid for that...? Of course NOT Eteri Tutberidze (from the % she receives from her skater's prize money as well as $$ for skating shows) nor Russian Figure Skating Federation. (The U.S. Figure Skating Federation DID pay for Gracie Gold.) Yulia paid out of her own pocket - from the money she received from her sponsor. And then, she was harassed by internet trolls that this sponsor of hers was her "sugar daddy" and she was actually paid for "other services", not because of her achievements in figure skating, because for some people only team gold is a failure, and they believed every word Eteri said - that Yulia was lazy etc.

And what about that stalker who harassed her for about 3 years, claiming that he was Yulia's father who just wanted to "give her a hug", blah-blah-blah ? What if he was a pedophile or something...? For example, he walked around with Yulia's picture, asked neighbors for Yulia's exact address etc. There were TV reports about this madman ! And no one bothered that there's an underage girl who could potentially be in grave danger !! Why didn't Eteri pick up a phone and call a random journalist and tell him "please write that this man is NOT Yulia's father; in case media doesn't stop publishing this BS and harassing MY ATHLETE, I'll make sure they get sued" ! Many many people believed that this man actually was Yulia's father, and she acted like a spoiled brat (it began right after the Olympics). This horror stopped only when Yulia turned 18 and she personally talked to the media and threatened to sue.

P.S. I'm NOT Russian, neither from Russia. I just happen to be fluent in Russian. Just so you know... I often get accused of being Russian, therefore being biased, when I defend some Russian skater. I defend individual skaters regardless of their nationality.

I have never heard you so on fire ballerina. What you wrote was very impactful very interesting and very upsetting the same time. These athletes need more help especially when they're at that preteen and teen age. While Eteri may consider herself like a second mother to some of these girls that has to go for all of her pupils not just the Top Guns getting it done. The Russian Federation needs to be more on top of these issues like what you Leah went through and have counselors visit every Skating Club from time to time and talk with the athletes outside of their coaches input.

flanker said:
According to FFKKR Aliona will formally remain the member of Sambo 70 this season ("transfer window is already closed").
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1087581910.html

Does that mean EG gets to keep a piece of whatever aliona wins next season or in these competitions in Russia? If she can't legally go to the plushenko academy or any other coach does that mean she has to actually physically return to sambo-70 and Skate for EG? It sounds like aliona broke the rules here with her transfer. I hope she's doing okay and smiling but she's in a very tough spot.

Amei · Aug 3, 2020

fabienne1996 said:
If there is even what one can call a season cause at the moment it looks rather the opposite. At least for international competitions. So would it matter to alyona that much? To represent a club for one season still a season ehich most likely will not really be on international level?

Gesendet von meinem SM-T813 mit Tapatalk

Perhaps if she is still on paper skating for Sambo then Sambo can demand a portion of any prize money she wins?

vorravorra said:
It's interesting that Eteri kept complaining about skaters leaving her not having the courage to tell her to her face. Alyona showed that courage and Eteri hit the roof as the result. Maybe those who avoided a personal goodbye were onto something after all.

I get the impression unless a skater is retiring leaving a coach in Russia is never going to be pleasant. And for what's worth Eteri did not complain about Kostornaia not saying goodbye

Scott512 said:
Does that mean EG gets to keep a piece of whatever aliona wins next season or in these competitions in Russia? If she can't legally go to the plushenko academy or any other coach does that mean she has to actually physically return to sambo-70 and Skate for EG? It sounds like aliona broke the rules here with her transfer. I hope she's doing okay and smiling but she's in a very tough spot.

It was mentioned on the Russian ladies board (don't know how true it is) that Tarakanova came back to figure skating (she supposedly quit the sport when she left Eteri) it was after the transfer window and that was partially why she ended up with Plushenko since his is a private facility.

I hope the Fed learned from the Lipnitskaia fiasco to not attempt to force a coaching relationship. It was rumored that Lipnitskaia had sought to leave Eteri sooner than she did but the Fed stepped in and stopped it. If true, imagine how much fun that was for everyone involved.

The Fed needs to come up with some 'severance option' like a fine the skater pays to cover the cost of the training from the then-former coach, or something that doesn't involve a continued partnership once at least 1 of the parties involved has expressed a desire to not be in a partnership with the other.

adelia · Aug 3, 2020

You can work with one coach but officially still represent another club. It's not unheard of. It just depends on whether Plushenko and the Sambo 70 owner are agreeable to this interim arrangement.

McBibus · Aug 4, 2020

I don't know about Russia, but in a individual sport forcing someone to train with a person or an institution is unheard of.
Being an individual sport you can even train alone with no support.

The "jacket" you will wear when competing is a different matter and it's not rare that you can't change your team mid season
Consequence of that jacket is that your team is probably required to register you for competitions, but for a skater of national interest a solution will be agreed of forced by the federation I think.

Some federations in Italy will consent you to sign up to competition as "no team", as long as all the required steps (e.g. medical exams, insurances, registration to the federation herself, etc.) has been carried on.
It would be better both for Aliona and for Sambo70 avoiding any further conflict area, unless Sambo70 declares there is no problem in registering Aliona to competitions without indering her participation, but as I would not want Aliona to lose competitions because of Sambo I also do not want Sambo to miss out a spot for another skater because it will be fill by Aliona under imposition of the Russian board.

Anni234 · Aug 4, 2020

Zhenya also still represents Sambo 70 as far as I know so I suppose this is only a formal issue.

colormyworld240 · Aug 4, 2020

McBibus said:
I don't know about Russia, but in a individual sport forcing someone to train with a person or an institution is unheard of.
Being an individual sport you can even train alone with no support.

The "jacket" you will wear when competing is a different matter and it's not rare that you can't change your team mid season
Consequence of that jacket is that your team is probably required to register you for competitions, but for a skater of national interest a solution will be agreed of forced by the federation I think.

Some federations in Italy will consent you to sign up to competition as "no team", as long as all the required steps (e.g. medical exams, insurances, registration to the federation herself, etc.) has been carried on.
It would be better both for Aliona and for Sambo70 avoiding any further conflict area, unless Sambo70 declares there is no problem in registering Aliona to competitions without indering her participation, but as I would not want Aliona to lose competitions because of Sambo I also do not want Sambo to miss out a spot for another skater because it will be fill by Aliona under imposition of the Russian board.

I think in the Russian state system, it's a bit like switching countries. When you change countries, it has to be done for a certain amount of time before you can formally represent the new country. In Russia, I think there is a certain window every year that a skater can change schools. I'm not sure about Plusnehko's academy as that seems to be private and not under the state system if someone who is more knowledgeable can jump in. Skaters aren't only tied to their coaches, but also the school they represent. AFAIK there was no issue with leaving the coaches as she is now with Plushenko but still representing sambo-70. Kind of like how skaters can change coaches but there are rules that have to be met when switching countries.

zounger · Aug 4, 2020

colormyworld240 said:
I think in the Russian state system, it's a bit like switching countries. When you change countries, it has to be done for a certain amount of time before you can formally represent the new country. In Russia, I think there is a certain window every year that a skater can change schools. I'm not sure about Plusnehko's academy as that seems to be private and not under the state system if someone who is more knowledgeable can jump in. Skaters aren't only tied to their coaches, but also the school they represent. AFAIK there was no issue with leaving the coaches as she is now with Plushenko but still representing sambo-70. Kind of like how skaters can change coaches but there are rules that have to be met when switching countries.

Yes, I think that the general idea. In case of Aliona because of her status, I don't think it have much of an impact, except maybe that some price money will go to Sambo-70. In other cases it caused problems to the skaters.

nussnacker · Aug 4, 2020

TallyT said:
That may be, but it doesn't change the perception - if I am right, which I might not be - of the beneficiary, human nature being what it is. I have nothing against Shcherbakova (I find her innocuous) and given her new status as Last Girl Standing at Sambo, she probably will be able to overcome that for some of her critics.

as far as I remember they only talked about GP France in their letter, so not about Anna.

colormyworld240 · Aug 4, 2020

TallyT said:
I'd suggest that it's a little more than that; wasn't Shcherbakova the one who kept getting dinged, which was followed by a protest letter from the Russian Fed, which oooh lookee!!! - led to a sudden and pretty pointed change in judging standards?

If I've got the wrong girl I apologise... but if the right one, it makes sense. People tend not to care for those they see, rightly or wrongly, as "TPTB's pets"...

Wrong girl. That letter came after Alina had an "e" call on her lutz, and maybe to a lesser extent Alena with the "!" call. But I believe Alena has had the call before and the fed never did anything, so it leads me to believe that it was about Alina's "e" call.

zounger · Aug 4, 2020

colormyworld240 said:
Wrong girl. That letter came after Alina had an "e" call on her lutz, and maybe to a lesser extent Alena with the "!" call. But I believe Alena has had the call before and the fed never did anything, so it leads me to believe that it was about Alina's "e" call.

I think it was after CoC and Anna's 5 ! calls on Lutz. But the message was for both events. I don't think RusFed cared much about Alina.

TallyT · Aug 4, 2020

nussnacker said:
as far as I remember they only talked about GP France in their letter, so not about Anna.

It's still about perception. Everyone and their Great Aunt Sophronia knows it was all about the then-3A who was there.

nussnacker · Aug 4, 2020

TallyT said:
It's still about perception. Everyone and their Great Aunt Sophronia knows it was all about the then-3A who was there.

It isn’t about perception. The letter in fact was only about GP France.

The article itself:
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1080121818.html

Additionally Samokhvalov, R-Sport journalist confirmed that the letter was only about judging of Alina Zagitova and Aliona Kostornaya in Grenoble and that the letter didn’t state anything about Anna Shcherbakova and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva’s Performances at GP China.:

“Как сообщил спортивный журналист Анатолий Самохвалов, речь в письме идет не о судействе Анны Щербаковой и Елизаветы Туктамышевой на Гран-при Китая, а только о судействе Алины Загитовой и Алены Косторной в Гренобле.“

TallyT · Aug 4, 2020

nussnacker said:
It isn’t about perception. The letter in fact was only about GP France.

The article itself:
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1080121818.html

Additionally Samokhvalov, R-Sport journalist confirmed that the letter was only about judging of Alina Zagitova and Aliona Kostornaya in Grenoble and that the letter didn’t state anything about Anna Shcherbakova and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva’s Performances at GP China.:

“Как сообщил спортивный журналист Анатолий Самохвалов, речь в письме идет не о судействе Анны Щербаковой и Елизаветы Туктамышевой на Гран-при Китая, а только о судействе Алины Загитовой и Алены Косторной в Гренобле.“

The question I originally addressed was why some fans have taken a dislike to Anna. She was the main offender for URs and the main beneficiary of the ISU beig craven.

Therefore, perception is everything. Please, stop trying to talk logic where emotions and preconception are concerned, it doesn't work.

nussnacker · Aug 4, 2020

TallyT said:
The question I originally addressed was why some fans have taken a dislike to Anna. She was the main offender for URs and the main beneficiary of the ISU beig craven.

Therefore, perception is everything. Please, stop trying to talk logic where emotions and preconception are concerned, it doesn't work.

Oh ok. I misunderstood. I thought you meant that the letter itself was too ambiguous and could be about whomever was competing at that time.

You’re basically saying that fans took offense that Rusfed wrote that letter, and whether or not it had anything to do with Anna, they might be projecting that negativity onto her.

Alena Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

vorravorra

Jeanie19

TallyT

yume

🍉

TallyT

Scott512

Scott512

Amei

adelia

McBibus

Anni234

Ina Bauer

colormyworld240

zounger

nussnacker

one and only

colormyworld240

zounger

TallyT

nussnacker

one and only

TallyT

nussnacker

one and only

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