Rehashing the 2014 and 2018 Oly Team Event | Golden Skate

Rehashing the 2014 and 2018 Oly Team Event

Status
Not open for further replies.

GS Forum Staff

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
This is the thread dedicated to discussing the 2014 and 2018 Olympic Team Events.

Please confine disputes, debates, rescoring of those events to this thread, and please stay within Goldenskate guidelines.

Thank you!
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
I'm going to add Team Canada's Gold. They really had an amazing Olympics in 2018 and they all banded together and brought home the Gold. I was so happy for Patrick and the rest of the team.

They did great and deserve the team gold. But some of us were amazed how lopsided the Russian team was defending their team gold medal from Sochi. The women carried them in the team event and the man really let them down. I just hope we have a team event and I went to Olympics for that matter because that's certainly up in the air at this point.

For Canada be able to field all those world champion and former world champions for the team of that may never be duplicated.
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
They did great and deserve the team gold. But some of us were amazed how lopsided the Russian team was defending their team gold medal from Sochi. The women carried them in the team event and the man really let them down. I just hope we have a team event and I went to Olympics for that matter because that's certainly up in the air at this point.

For Canada be able to field all those world champion and former world champions for the team of that may never be duplicated.

But the Russians have always made questionable choices when it comes to the Team event. Remember they would not let Adelina anywhere near the Teams event given her Senior competitive results and inconsistency internationally, which ended up in a tired Yuila performance in singles, only to then celebrate in a controversial win by her team mate. So if the Russian Federation had so much confidence in Adelina's ability, why not let her participate in the 2014 Team event?

Perhaps her 9th place at the previous Worlds was too much and her 5th place finish at the 2013-14 GPF, was seen as too risky.
 

gotoschool

Medalist
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
But the Russians have always made questionable choices when it comes to the Team event. Remember they would not let Adelina anywhere near the Teams event given her Senior competitive results and inconsistency internationally, which ended up in a tired Yuila performance in singles, only to then celebrate in a controversial win by her team mate. So if the Russian Federation had so much confidence in Adelina's ability, why not let her participate in the 2014 Team event?

Perhaps her 9th place at the previous Worlds was too much and her 5th place finish at the 2013-14 GPF, was seen as too risky.

I am critical of the scoring at Sochi, but I think the Russian selection for the team event was justifiable. Contrary to the idea of skating in the team competition as an award, I think it is more of a liability as was the case for Julia and for Mao in the SP and the horrible training forced upon her by the JSF between the team competition and the main competition. By contrast, Yuna Kim and Adelina were able to concentrate on the more important single's event. One key point is Adelina's excellent showing at Nationals over the years with the Olympics in Russia, since she had won 3 out of the last 4 National titles and Julia had yet to win a National title, though she was a couple of years younger. Furthermore, Adelina had bigger jumps and skated with more power which could translate into a greater justifiable upside if she delivered. It seems like Carolina Kostner broke this rule, however, and delivered her best overall performances at Sochi.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
The team event thus far is very controversial to me, because the federations aren't treating it like a real competition. If the event was being approached from an honest effort, then each federation would always be choosing the most competitive choices for the SP + LP. Instead, they too often assign people who are lesser on an event, in order to "rest" their stronger option or in order to give someone a free medal. You don't see people sitting out of Team events in other sports to rest themselves, that's not how it's supposed to be.

The team event rules are just extremely stupid too: the LP is ultimately less worthwhile than the SP, even though it's supposed to be the more important segment. Makes no sense at all. They should really allow 8 of the teams to advance to the LP as well (which for the next Olympics, is probably Russia, USA, Canada, China, France, Japan, South Korea, and Italy in the mix, and Canada in very real danger of being off the podium, most likely to China, but perhaps France if they can keep Vanessa/Morgan together and Kevin Aymoz skating well, and still an outside shot for Japan if they can hit very high rankings with their Singles skaters and not fall too far behind with Pairs/Dance).

I also think they should introduce more variety in who is competing, like giving each country 6 competition slots for both the SP and LP, and thus allowing countries to actually show their greater depth in the disciplines they are strongest at. China would double up in Pairs and Men, Russia in Ladies and Pairs (and using all 3 of their Ladies across the SP+LP; someone without a 3Axel would sit the SP, but could be the better LP choice because of Quads), USA in Dance and Men (and maybe using all 3 Men, like Jason Brown in the SP and the latest jumping bean in the LP), Japan and South Korea in the Singles disciplines, Canada in...well they aren't looking good right now, are they? I guess whichever 2 of their disciplines between Men/Dance/Pairs looks the strongest by 2022. France would suffer a ton right now from lacking depth, but that's fair, start putting more effort into developing your skaters.

indeed... and everyone pulled their own weight where it mattered most : Patrick even won the LP but had remained close enough with a 3rd in the SP

Patrick should have been 6th in the SP and could have placed dead last in the LP if the teams actually fielded their strongest skaters, almost certainly he wouldn't place higher than 4th (and already he should have lost to Rippon). His skating did not pull its weight, he got propped up for a terrible SP and overly flawed LP.

Russia could have won the 2018 Team competition if all of the strongest people were competing (and if Chan wasn't ridiculously overscored), but under the sad circumstances of the competition, it became nearly impossible for anyone besides Canada to win. Even if Russia had tried harder by keeping their best Pair in the LP and letting Aliev do the Men's LP, it wouldn't matter, because the other countries weren't trying their best, so there was no way to create enough separation in the placements with Canada.

The team event right now is insanely prone to political deals, the entire standings could be decided by manipulating which skaters each country is deciding to compete, with the lower ranked countries practically being "pawns for the highest bidders", to either compete or not compete their most competitive skaters (for example, Sui/Han and Boyang Jin not competing for China in 2018, who could have knocked Canada down in the standings as compared to Russia in those disciplines).
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
For Sui/Han to "have knocked Canada down in the standings as compared to Russia" Sui/Han would have had to come second to Tarasova/Morozov. In what world is that actually likely?

Agree that Jin could have "knocked Canada down" by one point, only because Han Yan came ahead of Kolyada in the short, so a very good result by Jin would have affected Canada (but not Russia) by ONE POINT.

Even if you are very dedicated to knocking Canada down, you need a better argument than that.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I am critical of the scoring at Sochi, but I think the Russian selection for the team event was justifiable.

Yeah, I like Adelina a lot and was disappointed that she wasn't picked for the team event, but the selection made sense. Julia was the obvious choice for the LP because she nailed so many 7 triple skates leading up to Sochi. In the SP, the relative placements for a clean Julia and a clean Adelina would be roughly the same, but again Julia was a less risky choice because of her consistency.

I'm really not crazy about the team event, though. I think it's pointless because, unless a country suffers multiple complete meltdowns, the medalists are already known. In Sochi, the US placed a skater in the top 3 in only three of the eight segments, and still won bronze by a comfortable margin.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
But the Russians have always made questionable choices when it comes to the Team event. Remember they would not let Adelina anywhere near the Teams event given her Senior competitive results and inconsistency internationally, which ended up in a tired Yuila performance in singles, only to then celebrate in a controversial win by her team mate. So if the Russian Federation had so much confidence in Adelina's ability, why not let her participate in the 2014 Team event?

Perhaps her 9th place at the previous Worlds was too much and her 5th place finish at the 2013-14 GPF, was seen as too risky.

You make good points. Russia had such a loaded team they were going to win the. Team gold anyway. Adelina would not have hurt their chances if she skated the short program and little Yulia might have had more left for the individual competition than she did. That was stupid especially considering at Alina beat Yulia how many times in Nationals? 6?

Adelina was on the team and then they took her off. Very unfair she should have a team gold as well as what she did individually.. Yulia got Rockstar big after the team event and it freaked her out and that really hurt her in the individual competition. The girl had to flee the media on multiple occasions and had to hide out and couldn't get the proper training in. Eteri took her to god-knows-where after the team event. Then when she came back to prepare for the individual event in Sochi she was worn to a frazzle and upset by the media attention.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Adelina was on the team and then they took her off. Very unfair she should have a team gold as well as what she did individually.. Yulia got Rockstar big after the team event and it freaked her out and that really hurt her in the individual competition.

Had Adelina skated in the Team Event, I think that her individual competition would have gone much differently. She admitted the snub fueled her in the individual event, and I think Team Gold would have added additional pressure that, based on past performances, she wasn't that good at handling.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
For Sui/Han to "have knocked Canada down in the standings as compared to Russia" Sui/Han would have had to come second to Tarasova/Morozov. In what world is that actually likely?

It's relatively likely in the world we live in. Tarasova/Morozov only lost to a "perfect" Sui/Han in the SP by 0.7, and their PCS were nearly identical. If Sui/Han had done a SP with just a slight bobble on one element, that would have dropped them under. The judges were very much there for T/M. The same situation could happen in the LP too, although less likely there; T/M skating like they did at Europeans would have beaten D/R in the LP, and Sui/Han could have slotted between them with a program that had 1 major mistake (which has actually just been normal for them, usually that SBS Salchow).

Agree that Jin could have "knocked Canada down" by one point, only because Han Yan came ahead of Kolyada in the short, so a very good result by Jin would have affected Canada (but not Russia) by ONE POINT.

Not only 1 point in the SP, but also 1 in the LP, if he had beaten Chan there (extremely likely), but lost to Aliev (possible, he showed at Europeans he could deliver).
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
I am critical of the scoring at Sochi, but I think the Russian selection for the team event was justifiable. Contrary to the idea of skating in the team competition as an award, I think it is more of a liability as was the case for Julia and for Mao in the SP and the horrible training forced upon her by the JSF between the team competition and the main competition. By contrast, Yuna Kim and Adelina were able to concentrate on the more important single's event. One key point is Adelina's excellent showing at Nationals over the years with the Olympics in Russia, since she had won 3 out of the last 4 National titles and Julia had yet to win a National title, though she was a couple of years younger. Furthermore, Adelina had bigger jumps and skated with more power which could translate into a greater justifiable upside if she delivered. It seems like Carolina Kostner broke this rule, however, and delivered her best overall performances at Sochi.

Yes, she won something that means nothing internationally. As a first ever OG event and Russia pulling all out stops for supremacy including pee-gate (can we be honest?) Russia was out for revenge after their 4th place finish overall, finishing behind Canada at the Vancouver OG's. Who would have ever thought a 9th placed finished athlete, as the strategy for World domination or their Trojan Horse? Better still, luck and a few preferred judges were key. There was no strategy at the time, only let's put our most recent star in both the Team and Singles event and hope for the best for all in the singles comp. As for previous skating acumen, Adelina's at her best internationally was always questionable. Example, the only time she bested Osmond in a head to head senior's event was never, prior to Sochi. So a wild card in other words.

For the record, did Adelina ever repeat her success beyond Sochi, amidst questionable judging and pee-gate? Her competitors in Sochi sure did.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
It's relatively likely in the world we live in. Tarasova/Morozov only lost to a "perfect" Sui/Han in the SP by 0.7, and their PCS were nearly identical. If Sui/Han had done a SP with just a slight bobble on one element, that would have dropped them under. The judges were very much there for T/M. The same situation could happen in the LP too, although less likely there; T/M skating like they did at Europeans would have beaten D/R in the LP, and Sui/Han could have slotted between them with a program that had 1 major mistake (which has actually just been normal for them, usually that SBS Salchow).



Not only 1 point in the SP, but also 1 in the LP, if he had beaten Chan there (extremely likely), but lost to Aliev (possible, he showed at Europeans he could deliver).

You know, I just realized why we disagree on so many levels. I believe in facts... and i don't get lost in the whatifsworld.

Facts : as much as you dislike Patrick Chan, he won 3 world titles, has 3 olympic medals including a gold from the team event, and for many fans, is one of the most gorgeous skaters to have graced the ice in the last decade.

Whatifs : judges should have scored him like this or that... nations didn't send their best teams to the team event.... rankings were all wrong... wrong skaters were chosen... etc etc etc


You will excuse me, but I will stick to what happened and not try to rewrite figure skating history.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Canada was the only country with the potential to have a skater on each podium and which came close to that. Russia had no chances in men and ice dance. No need of a gold medal to know that it was the strongest team.

Too bad Canada will very likely get its ass whipped at next olympics though.
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
You know, I just realized why we disagree on so many levels. I believe in facts... and i don't get lost in the whatifsworld.

Facts : as much as you dislike Patrick Chan, he won 3 world titles, has 3 olympic medals including a gold from the team event, and for many fans, is one of the most gorgeous skaters to have graced the ice in the last decade.

Whatifs : judges should have scored him like this or that... nations didn't send their best teams to the team event.... rankings were all wrong... wrong skaters were chosen... etc etc etc


You will excuse me, but I will stick to what happened and not try to rewrite figure skating history.

Hmmm, personal opinions versus facts. Oh what to choose...
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Ahaha, that shade for Aliev's 4Lz, Yume! I really like him as a skater but, yes, he does some pre-rotation on his 4Lz (perhaps even more on the 4Toe) and never seems to land backwards on that jump either. I think at the Olympics those jumps were "okay" in the SP though. Also, Kolyada had actually hit 103 in the SP that season. His potential jump quality and skating skills and Russian backing did give him some chances.

ETA - apparently that part of the discussion has been deleted though. Anyway, Canada didn't really have better chances of a medal in the Men's event, and didn't necessarily have an insurmountable advantage in the Team event because of having a medal-worthy Dance team.

You know, I just realized why we disagree on so many levels. I believe in facts... and i don't get lost in the whatifsworld.

The deficiencies in Patrick Chan's skating are not a "whatif", they are real things that people feel have been judged incorrectly. Patrick Chan skating poorly at an event is not a "whatif". It happened, constantly. World Champions and countless notable individuals have said his marks were unfair. From 2008 Skate Canada all the way up through 2018 Olympics he was overscored, overscored, overscored. In the opinion of many people.
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Canada was the only country with the potential to have a skater on each podium and which came close to that. Russia had no chances in men and ice dance. No need of a gold medal to know that it was the strongest team.

Too bad Canada will very likely get its ass whipped at next olympics though.

Funny yume, as the same thing was said prior to PyeongChang, that Patrick was no longer competent and our ladies shaky and look how that turned out. ; )
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Funny yume, as the same thing was said prior to PyeongChang, that Patrick was no longer competent and our ladies shaky and look how that turned out. ; )
Well, imo the state of the Canadian team now is worse than in 2016. D/R were world champions, so pairs were ok. V/M and Chan were coming back the next season so men and ice dance had a chance. Only ladies were weak. After worlds 2017, it was clear that Canada had a contender for all podiums. Now, only men can do something with a lot of luck. G/P in ice dance are too lowballed.

Like you, i'm waiting for the miracle in 2022.
 

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Team event doesn't need controversy. It's a controversy by its own existence.

I love the team event and I don't even feel the need to justify it. I just really enjoy it. And I say this even knowing Canada probably won't be in for a medal this time. I'll be rooting for the Italians to take Bronze. I see it as Russia (by a mile), the USA (mostly on the backs of the men and Dance) and hopefully Italy.


Peas=big team event supporter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top