Rehashing the 2014 and 2018 Oly Team Event | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Rehashing the 2014 and 2018 Oly Team Event

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For the record, did Adelina ever repeat her success beyond Sochi, amidst questionable judging and pee-gate? Her competitors in Sochi sure did.

Why are you being so mean and snide to Adelina Sotnikova, of all people?

Sotnikova never said anything cruel about Kaetlyn Osmond, and in fact, as far as I can tell they met only three times in competition. Besides the 2014 Olympics, Kaetlyn got 8th and Sotnikova 9th at 2013 Worlds and Kaetlyn got 1st and Adelina 2nd at 2012-13 Nebelhorn in the challenger's series. That's it. Not exactly a furious rivalry.(?)
 
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The deficiencies in Patrick Chan's skating are not a "whatif" ... he was overscored, overscored, overscored. In the opinion of many people.

I don't know about that. Patrick's "deficiencies" were actually quite minimal compared to any of his competitors during his reign. He was one of a very small handful of skaters ever who were able to combine quads, skating skills and presentation without one aspect eclipsing the others.

As I remember the discussions, most of the "many people" who complained about scoring during the Patrick years were critical of the IJS (it did not deduct enough for falls), rather than of the skater.
 

Blades of Passion

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Not deducting enough points for mistakes on jumps is one thing, but there's still the general overscoring of GOE's, and his overscored PCS for poor/flawed performances that has been a constant point of discussion. Even for his cleaner performances, there has been much discussion about his artistry, and if he getting overscored on PCS just because of having excellent skating skills.
 

TallyT

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Not deducting enough points for mistakes on jumps is one thing, but there's still the general overscoring of GOE's, and his overscored PCS for poor/flawed performances that has been a constant point of discussion. Even for his cleaner performances, there has been much discussion about his artistry, and if he getting overscored on PCS just because of having excellent skating skills.

However justified or not the criticism may be, because it's a team event and the Canadians were the best in 2018, I think it has to be called a non-controversial medal per se. Even poor performances in winning teams (in any relevant sport) get, absolutely fairly and without argument, to take a medal home, for which all three men in the SP probably thanked their teammates who pretty much gifted them with it.

And given it's the only OGM Patrick has, and it was won fairly, I really think it does belong in this thread.
 

Blades of Passion

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Chan was propped up with his scores/placements in the Team event, that is controversial.

Who knows if he would have skated worse in the LP if he was dealing with knowing his low SP placement might cost Canada the Gold, and if Russia would have adjusted their game plan, had they thought the Gold medal was within their grasp. If there was a tie in the team placement, Russia would have won the competition, because the Russian singles ladies vastly outscored the Dance field for the tiebreaker system. They had a big chance to win, if Chan hadn't been gifted all those extra points for a bombed SP.

The further controversy of the rules and the best skaters in each team not competing, making the whole event appear to be especially prone to political deals, just creates even more of a question mark. It's not like in 2014, where the winning team was untouchable, and where all of the medals were essentially locked in, regardless of any possible talk about substitutions or minor quibbles about certain placements.
 

Ic3Rabbit

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One name (of several) if some are going to keep beating on Chan.

Kolyada, SP.

That wasn't worthy of much, but here we are. Russian athletes under unified flag still got silver and some are whining they should have had gold. No sorry not sorry.

I hate to say this because I like him as a skater and athlete, but he bombed there.
 

Osmond4gold

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Why are you being so mean and snide to Adelina Sotnikova, of all people?

Sotnikova never said anything cruel about Kaetlyn Osmond, and in fact, as far as I can tell they met only three times in competition. Besides the 2014 Olympics, Kaetlyn got 8th and Sotnikova 9th at 2013 Worlds and Kaetlyn got 1st and Adelina 2nd at 2012-13 Nebelhorn in the challenger's series. That's it. Not exactly a furious rivalry.(?)

Perhaps you misunderstood me, Mathman. My beef was that Adelina did not win ANYTHING as a senior pre/post outside of Russia before the OGM only.

So an out of left field skater who the Russian Feds intentionally kept as far away as possible from the Team event, as no confidence given her skating acumen, WINS, I have to ask whada?. If pee-gate (which was proven as we know) with the traditional eastern blocked judging scheme are combined, then no surprise that a 2nd tier skater or the a skater who placed 9th at previous World's, would challenge for the OGM, is the thing.

As Janet would sing, "What Have You Done For Me Lately", or no major International win pre/post Sochi? If it looks and smells like tuna, it's likely fishy.
 

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Perhaps you misunderstood me, Mathman. My beef was that Adelina did not win ANYTHING as a senior pre/post outside of Russia before the OGM only.

That's still no excuse for the spiteful and mean-spirited way you worded it. Yes, Adelina's win is controversial, but not for the fact that she beat Kaetlyn - the number of people who think the latter should have won is clearly minuscule. If I were you, I would be grateful that your girl didn't beat favourite Yuna for the gold, or she may have been the one to wear all these years of abuse great and small.
 

Blades of Passion

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One name (of several) if some are going to keep beating on Chan.

Kolyada, SP.

That wasn't worthy of much, but here we are. I hate to say this because I like him as a skater and athlete, but he bombed there.

All 3 of the medal-winning teams bombed the Men's SP, so it's unavoidable wherever you look; what matters is the rankings. Kolyada was correctly placed for what he put out on the ice. Patrick Chan and Nathan Chen only should have placed 6th/7th in the segment, just above Kolyada.

Nathan Chen being propped up is less impactful, although that still could have changed the course of things too. If USA was in jeopardy of losing the Bronze medal, would Adam Rippon be doing the LP? We all know Nathan Chen was going to score much higher in the LP.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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So an out of left field skater who the Russian Feds intentionally kept as far away as possible from the Team event, as no confidence given her skating acumen, WINS, I have to ask whada?. If pee-gate (which was proven as we know) with the traditional eastern blocked judging scheme are combined, then no surprise that a 2nd tier skater or the a skater who placed 9th at previous World's, would challenge for the OGM, is the thing.
.

I don’t remember Adelina or any figure skaters directly tied to the urine swapping in Sochi. You seem to be implying otherwise. I feel kinda silly even discussing it at this point but you explicitly seem to be connecting her to the Rodchenkov scheme but I’ve never seen him say he helped figure skaters. He’s certainly made claims of several other sports but not figure skating.

Just want to be clear. Adelina has never been proven as we know to be involved.
 

TallyT

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If USA was in jeopardy of losing the Bronze medal, would Adam Rippon be doing the LP? We all know Nathan Chen was going to score much higher in the LP.

I wouldn't be too sure of that - his nerves looked to be in shreds pretty much until he knew the individual OGM was gone, so in the earlier team event he could have blown the free as well. Or not. And the team couldn't possibly know which.

This is in my opinion the problem with trying to do "what if" for actual people we really don't know well enough to predict their individual reactions/behaviour in hypothetical alternate situations they have never been in. It'll all blind guesswork and might have beens. I know, I know we all do it (even if only in our heads)... but it just doesn't work.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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The deficiencies in Patrick Chan's skating are not a "whatif", they are real things that people feel have been judged incorrectly. Patrick Chan skating poorly at an event is not a "whatif". It happened, constantly. World Champions and countless notable individuals have said his marks were unfair. From 2008 Skate Canada all the way up through 2018 Olympics he was overscored, overscored, overscored. In the opinion of many people.

Every skater is improperly scored in the opinions of “many people”, least of all yourself. Cool, you and your so-called “many people” can keep their inconsequential opinions, and Chan can keep his World/Olympic hardware, boo. :laugh:

World Champions and many notable individuals have agreed with his results so I don’t see your point. I would love to see your list of “countless notable individuals”, or is that just your usual hyperbole? I suppose those anti-Chan opinions that specifically align with your opinion matter the most though, right?! :biggrin:

Since there is almost a decade of overscoring maybe someone with time on their hands should write some salty letters to the ISU denouncing all of Chan’s controversial wins? Know anyone? ;)
 

TallyT

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Since there is almost a decade of overscoring maybe someone with time on their hands should write some salty letters to the ISU denouncing all of Chan’s controversial wins? Know anyone? ;)

For all you know, people could have been. The ISU are hardly going to admit to years of bland favoritism, so any such deluge would have simply been thrown away. In the end, if he was overscored (which I think he was for at least two of his WCs and Deniswuzdefinitelyrobbed), karma took care of it.

But this thread is about the Olympics, and in the team event in 2018 noonewuzrobbed.

As I said, all three of the men in the SP who medalled owed their medals to their teams. They probably know it.
 

4everchan

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For all you know, people could have been. The ISU are hardly going to admit to years of bland favoritism, so any such deluge would have simply been thrown away. In the end, if he was overscored (which I think he was for at least two of his WCs and Deniswuzdefinitelyrobbed), karma took care of it.

But this thread is about the Olympics, and in the team event in 2018 noonewuzrobbed.

As I said, all three of the men in the SP who medalled owed their medals to their teams. They probably know it.

So why the need to talk about Worlds then...? You point out rightfully so that this thread is about the olympics? I am confused.

I don't believe karma is bestowed upon someone who has nothing to do with the outcome of an event...Skaters do not control their scores... Judges/tech panelists do that. So, if there was any wrong doing, it's not the skater who shall suffer karma for that.... The only thing a skater can do, is skate as well as they can, and considering the lack of preparation Patrick had, he didn't let his team down. One can say whatever they want, a 3rd and a 1st in the team event is certainly a great way to contribute to a clear team win.

A skater is NOT responsible for the mishaps of the others. Patrick controlled the damage by making sure he committed to his performance and fought through it, despite not being in the zone... that is also what makes a great champion. His teammates skated better. That's correct. However, one cannot say that he didn't pull his own weight, and so did the entire team : they all said it ... they wanted to win gold so that each and everyone on the team would be Olympic Champion.. Nobody can take that away from them... ever... no matter how hard some are trying, so on this final point, we do agree.
 

Skater Boy

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Chan was propped up with his scores/placements in the Team event, that is controversial.

Who knows if he would have skated worse in the LP if he was dealing with knowing his low SP placement might cost Canada the Gold, and if Russia would have adjusted their game plan, had they thought the Gold medal was within their grasp. If there was a tie in the team placement, Russia would have won the competition, because the Russian singles ladies vastly outscored the Dance field for the tiebreaker system. They had a big chance to win, if Chan hadn't been gifted all those extra points for a bombed SP.

The further controversy of the rules and the best skaters in each team not competing, making the whole event appear to be especially prone to political deals, just creates even more of a question mark. It's not like in 2014, where the winning team was untouchable, and where all of the medals were essentially locked in, regardless of any possible talk about substitutions or minor quibbles about certain placements.

To be honest every win will be controversial. BOP shows us there are so many ways at looking an event or skater. S ome will say Chan is vastly underscored. Some over scored. Ditto for Hanyu. in 1984 some will say Torvill and Dean aren't as great as people think and their freeskate was boring and uninspiring. Yes, a lot won't but there will be some. Skating and judging is in the eye of the beholder; they you have the different scoring systems and rules.
 

yume

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As I said, all three of the men in the SP who medalled owed their medals to their teams. They probably know it.
That's the good thing with this competition. You bomb but you still get a medal for the effort. Like at a fair.

Those three medalists bombed. It should make the final result uncontroversial.
 

Osmond4gold

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That's still no excuse for the spiteful and mean-spirited way you worded it. Yes, Adelina's win is controversial, but not for the fact that she beat Kaetlyn - the number of people who think the latter should have won is clearly minuscule. If I were you, I would be grateful that your girl didn't beat favourite Yuna for the gold, or she may have been the one to wear all these years of abuse great and small.

I did not suggest for a moment that KO as in a position to challenge in Sochi. My point was Adelina was never regarded as a contender given her previous Senior competitions/acumen. However, she was on home ice and things happened when it came to home-cooking.
 
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