2017 GPF Ladies SP

anyanka · Dec 8, 2017

Shayuki said:
Note, this isn't just because it's Satoko. I'm against all kinds of cheating and also think edges should be called correctly. It just so happens that Satoko's easily the most obvious lady cheating her jumps and getting away with it right now.

The thing is that the feds seem to have gone all-in on her, especially after she won that silver in 2015 worlds.

I do agree that she's not the best jumper. Honda, Mihara, especially Higuchi are out-jumping her. But once they develop and their reputations increase, Satoko's stock will fall, even with the feds, especially once they start medaling more and more.

Plisskin · Dec 8, 2017

tars said:
Satoko's prerotation in slowmo was unbelievable. :eeking:
She's rotating 270 degrees on the ice before take off.

https://youtu.be/gdbEqS6Wx_Y?t=277

Wow. I like Miyahara but her UR (and that PR...goodness) not getting called is incredibly unfair to all of the other skaters we know of that will UR and get HAMMERED by the judging panel.

Yatagarasu · Dec 8, 2017

qwertyskates said:
If that's cheating then Shoma's worse, but folks are attacking Satoko more. Why?:sarcasm:

No, they are not.
There have been continuous complaints about Shoma's prerotation for over two seasons now. This has been discussed over and over, and usually dismissed in the exact same way it is being dismissed now. Don't use the word cheater. You're just 'haters', etc etc.
Whatever Satoko does besides jumps, is to be judged separately. But score her jumps correctly and that is not being done.

Satoko, Shoma, and Vincent Zhou, who is another who prerotates, need to fix this. Or get called on it if they don't. Except they don't.

If you want hypocrisy, you can look for that on BESP, where commentators had plenty to say about Satoko's prerotation, but always praised Shoma for his jumps. Until they got called on it that is, so Hanretty had to, however reluctantly, spit out a sentence about it during IdF.

jenaj · Dec 8, 2017

Shayuki said:
Oh she's consciously doing it alright. Otherwise she'd show visible signs of fixing her jumping technique. She's entirely content with cheating knowing she can get away with it.

Note, this isn't just because it's Satoko. I'm against all kinds of cheating and also think edges should be called correctly. It just so happens that Satoko's easily the most obvious lady cheating her jumps and getting away with it right now.

Accusing her of cheating or at least OK with it? How do I find the edit ignore list again?

anyanka · Dec 8, 2017

jenaj said:
Accusing her of cheating or at least OK with it? How do I find the edit ignore list, again?

On the flip side, years ago there was someone on GS who fiercely defended Satoko and said she would make the 2014 team, claiming that she was technically the most proficient and was the greatest jumper ever. They especially had a hate-on for Akiko and Kanako. I can't remember who it was ...

Shayuki · Dec 8, 2017

jenaj said:
Accusing her of cheating or at least OK with it? How do I find the edit ignore list again?

Cheating on her jumps, yes. That's what she does - Official terms.

If you take issue with me using official rulebook terms - Please send the feedback to ISU.

qwertyskates · Dec 8, 2017

Yatagarasu said:
No, they are not.
There have been continuous complaints about Shoma's prerotation for over two seasons now. This has been discussed over and over, and usually dismissed in the exact same way it is being dismissed now. Don't use the word cheater. You're just 'haters', etc etc.
Whatever Satoko does besides jumps, is to be judged separately. But score her jumps correctly and that is not being done.

Satoko, Shoma, and Vincent Zhou, who is another who prerotates, need to fix this. Or get called on it if they don't. Except they don't.

If you want hypocrisy, you can look for that on BESP, where commentators had plenty to say about Satoko's prerotation, but always praised Shoma for his jumps. Until they got called on it that is, so Hanretty had to, however reluctantly, spit out a sentence about it during IdF.

This is why I think everyone is too harsh on Satoko. She is putting out more than Shoma, and I'm sure she's trying her best - I actually noticed at SA she jumped higher in the beginning, but her stamina petered out. I do think she's a more aesthetic skater than Higuchi, and she has improved in that area too. My only worry is that she can't push her TES much higher, and she needs to. Higuchi and Kaori are waiting in the wings should Satoko falter, but let her have her Olympic moment. The other two wing ladies are still young enough to catch the next Olys.

Elucidus · Dec 8, 2017

enzet said:
As for PCS, Satoko, Carolina, Wakaba and Kaetlyn should definitely all be above Alina. Not sure about Maria.

Alina is lovely but does not have the maturity and refinement of the other girls yet.

But hey, when has PCS ever actually reflected that?

PCS is not about maturity and refinement. Surprise. At least half of it consist of technical merits, more related to TES.

Ender · Dec 8, 2017

Yatagarasu said:
Satoko is cheating.
I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated but that is literally the terminology ISU uses for prerotated jumps of her kind. Literally. Full meaning of that word.

"Cheated take-off - A clear forward (backward for Axel type jump) take-off will be considered as a
downgraded jump. The toe loop is the most commonly cheated on take-off jump.
The TP may only watch the replay in regular speed to determine the cheat and
downgrade on the take off (more often in combinations or sequences)."

You may hate that word, but it is the correct word. The video tars linked previously is a perfect example of that. So yes, Satoko Miyahara cheats her jumps.

So if ISU doesn’t want people to use this word, they should erase it from their technical handbook.

anyanka · Dec 8, 2017

I came to this thread to expect people to bash on Kaetlyn or Alina and was surprised to find it evolve into a giant debate about Satoko ...

schizoanalyst · Dec 8, 2017

anyanka said:
I came to this thread to expect people to bash on Kaetlyn or Alina and was surprised to find it evolve into a giant debate about Satoko ...

I wish people would direct all of the anger towards the technical caller and not Satoko =/

anyanka · Dec 8, 2017

schizoanalyst said:
I wish people would direct all of the anger towards the technical caller and not Satoko =/

Anyone got Shin Amano's number? Put him in as the technical caller for EVERY competition and watch everyone's scores go down by 10% or more. EVERYONE.

schizoanalyst · Dec 8, 2017

anyanka said:
Anyone got Shin Amano's number? Put him in as the technical caller for EVERY competition and watch everyone's scores go down by 10% or more. EVERYONE.

lol. I actually wish the ISU made it easy to search *every* competition a tech caller or judge has been a part of (i.e. hyperlink to a profile on the panel of judges tabs in the result page) so we could fine out who is generous and who isn't.

Yatagarasu · Dec 8, 2017

qwertyskates said:
but let her have her Olympic moment. The other two wing ladies are still young enough to catch the next Olys.

Those who earn it should have their Olympic moment.

Mai Mihara has rheumatoid arthritis. That can flair up at any time. This is why she skipped the 4CC before last, she was stuck in a hospital. Let me ask you something. If Mai Mihara outskates Satoko during Nats, but the way this is going, Satoko gets to go, because "let her have her Olympic moment" and Mai, heaven forbid, has another flair up which could throw her out of sport, then what? Oops? Sorry Mai but Satoko mattered more?

The point is - you never know there is more time. Not in sport, not in life. There may never be another shot, no matter how young someone is.
And that's not to mention all the up and coming Juniors in Japan. So 4 years from now, what are you going to say then? Sorry Nana, let Mai have her moment? Sooner or later, that will not work out. It's just statistics.

Plus, I don't see anyone asking any "special" things here. This is a sport. Judge Satoko's jumps as they should be, according to the rules that exist. Then judge the rest. If she goes, go her. If she doesn't, sorry, there was someone better.

MiRé · Dec 8, 2017

To those who have problem with Satoko's UR not being called, where were you when Med wasn't getting her e or ! called? Hmm? :scratch3:

anyanka · Dec 8, 2017

Yatagarasu said:
Those who earn it should have their Olympic moment.

Mai Mihara has rheumatoid arthritis. That can flair up at any time. This is why she skipped the 4CC before last, she was stuck in a hospital. Let me ask you something. If Mai Mihara outskates Satoko during Nats, but the way this is going, Satoko gets to go, because "let her have her Olympic moment" and Mai, heaven forbid, has another flair up which could throw her out of sport, then what? Oops? Sorry Mai but Satoko mattered more?

The point is - you never know there is more time. Not in sport, not in life. There may never be another shot, no matter how young someone is.
And that's not to mention all the up and coming Juniors in Japan. So 4 years from now, what are you going to say then? Sorry Nana, let Mai have her moment? Sooner or later, that will not work out. It's just statistics.

Plus, I don't see anyone asking any "special" things here. This is a sport. Judge Satoko's jumps as they should be, according to the rules that exist. Then judge the rest. If she goes, go her. If she doesn't, sorry, there was someone better.

I think for Japanese team selection, whoever places highest at the GPF automatically gets an entry into the world / OG team (unsure if that also applies to 4CC). If Higuchi beats Satoko here, then she automatically gets an Olympic spot, regardless of how well she skates at nationals. Then again, Mai or Marin could win nationals and Satoko be 3rd, and then JSF would choose her for the second spot anyway. I think the 2005 Japanese nationals was controversial in how they chose the only spot for men when it was Daisuke vs. Oda, and they ended up splitting the assignments. Dai got the bronze at GPF that season but Oda won the national title initially and I think all hell broke loose. Definitely still a political thing.

And the Russians definitely don't let anyone go who "deserves" their moment. Look how far Liza has fallen Elena is struggling to get spot #3. Pogo is not a factor at all this year it seems (let's see how nationals pan out). All three were medalists in 2/3 last worlds. I'll just leave that there ...

Shayuki · Dec 8, 2017

MiRé said:
To those who have problem with Satoko's UR not being called, where were you when Med wasn't getting her e or ! called? Hmm? :scratch3:

Well, those should obviously be called. Just like Osmond's e flutz. The judging should be fair to everyone.

solar · Dec 8, 2017

anyanka said:
I think for Japanese team selection, whoever places highest at the GPF automatically gets an entry into the world / OG team (unsure if that also applies to 4CC).

I know that whoever wins nationals gets an automatic spot, but I'm not sure if that applies to the GPF as well...

zytolda · Dec 8, 2017

MiRé said:
To those who have problem with Satoko's UR not being called, where were you when Med wasn't getting her e or ! called? Hmm? :scratch3:

or i have huge problems with Med edge call

anyanka · Dec 8, 2017

solar said:
I know that whoever wins nationals gets an automatic spot, but I'm not sure if that applies to the GPF as well...

I had read that once somewhere re: GPF but it may have been a revised rule. I think that's how Miki Ando got her spot for Vancouver 2010, she was 4th in nationals but won silver behind Yuna at GPF, so she, Mao (national champ) and Akiko (2nd) went, and unfortunately Yukari Nakano (3rd nationally) stayed home and never got to an Olympics.

2017 GPF Ladies SP

anyanka

Plisskin

Yatagarasu

jenaj

anyanka

Shayuki

qwertyskates

Elucidus

Match Penalty

Ender

Match Penalty

anyanka

schizoanalyst

anyanka

schizoanalyst

Yatagarasu

MiRé

Match Penalty

anyanka

Shayuki

solar

I got cat class and I got cat style

zytolda

anyanka

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