Athletes View on 10 AM competition

somelikeitpink · Feb 11, 2018

Eclair said:
none of Kolyada, Bychenko, Shoma, Rizzo, Besseghier (btw watch his SP - it's not grand artistry nor clean, but it's extremely funny and original) or Jun Hwa has mentioned the competition time in regards of why their skate went well/ not so well though. Also, on twitter, it's mostly North American media talking about the competition time being too early.

So that's why the talk is mostly about North Americans.

If your point is that TV money should not decide the time of a competition, I generally totally agree with you. If your point is that the men's SP Team Event was so badly skated because the competition was early, then I don't agree.

Oh no I'm sorry you must have misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to argue that that was the reason for bad skates or anything.

I'm just surprised by the extreme focus on how the american athletes are dealing with it/could have prepared for it and how it was done for the american audience. Especially when there are skaters and an audience outside of that on which that has much more of repercussions.

I guess I was just trying to say that I find it sad that it was possible for NBC to buy it so that it fit ONE particular market - one that isn't even THAT keen on it it seems.

I know that none of the europeans have really complained but I just mean that during the decision making somebody should have considered them as well. Hell I've been trying to swap my sleeping schedule around a little the last few weeks and I still feel absolutely exhausted having to get up at 1am to watch (nevermind skate then).
Also means that hardly any of the european countries will actually get to see FS which I find an absolute shame.

I hope that makes more sense now?

skatesofgold · Feb 11, 2018

I think it's ridiculous that some of the athletes are using the time of the competitions as an excuse. When I was in high school, I had a couple of gymnastics meets that started before 10 am, even though I never had to practice that early. They knew well in advance and should have prepared accordingly.

somelikeitpink · Feb 11, 2018

Is anybody using it as an excuse though? I mean from the statements I've read it didn't sound like excuses to me.

There's a difference between saying something is not ideal and could have been done better and an excuse.

Eclair · Feb 11, 2018

somelikeitpink said:
Is anybody using it as an excuse though? I mean from the statements I've read it didn't sound like excuses to me.

There's a difference between saying something is not ideal and could have been done better and an excuse.

Patrick did ... :slink:

and on twitter, jeff buttle is arguing that it was too early for a competition ... Nathan didn't take the time as an excuse (even explicitly saying that there is no excuse, he was feeling good), but mentioned the time and lots of people on twitter are jumping on this and saying that the men's were so underwhelming bc of the early schedule ..

skatesofgold · Feb 11, 2018

Eclair said:
Patrick did ... and on twitter, jeff buttle is arguing that it was too early for a competition ... Nathan didn't take the time as an excuse (even explicitly saying that there is no excuse, he was feeling good), but mentioned the time and lots of people on twitter are jumping on this and saying that the men's were so underwhelming bc of the early schedule ..

10 AM is never too early for a competition. Tell that to all the gymnastics teams that have morning sessions at Worlds and the Olympics because it takes all day to get through everyone.

Tavi... · Feb 11, 2018

pearly said:
My point is that the arguments "ISI competitions start at 5 am" or "at my rink skaters practice from 6 am" are general observations and not grounds for a well informed discussion.

LadyB's post above is down to the point and that is the main issue here. It all makes me roll my eyes even more when I read that NBC isn't really showing other skaters, but is using their time for commercials and fluff pieces.

I don’t disagree that that the competition was scheduled in the early morning for a very stupid reason and that the skaters’ well being should have been put first. In a sense, the splatfest that was the men’s sp was NBC’s reward for not doing so.

That said, once it’s a fait accompli, what do you do? Throwing up your hands and saying it’s stupid and unfair may be the truth, but it doesn’t really help you succeed under less than ideal circumstances. Answering that question is what interests me, because I believe it’s possible, and it seems to me that perhaps enough advance planning wasn’t done. JMO.

Amei · Feb 11, 2018

The skaters had ample notice of when the competitions would be and I call baloney that they've never had to compete at an early time before* - if they can't adjust themselves to compete at an 'early time' then they haven't earned the right to be an Olympic champion.

*the only exception might be to some of the newcomers to the senior circuit like Bradie Tennell who hasn't competed much outside of the US so probably has limited exposure to competing in much different time zones

ice coverage · Feb 11, 2018

Eclair said:
... since the North Americans all arrived only like 2-3 days prior to the competition ...

Eclair said:
... Also most of North American teams arrived only 2-3 days prior to the competition day ...

U.S. skaters arrived earlier than you are claiming.

Nathan and the Knierims departed the U.S. on Sat Feb 3 (U.S. time). They first competed on Fri Feb 9 (Korea time), which was Day 1 of the team event.

(They landed in Korea on Feb 4 (Korea time), and went thru team processing on the morning of Feb 5 (Korea time).

https://twitter.com/ChrisKnierim/status/960320991137271808
https://www.instagram.com/p/BezEEf3lxo5/?taken-by=usfigureskating)

[I have not attempted to keep track of their Canadian counterparts one way or the other.]

Eclair said:
... I assumed the practice rinks were open in the morning. ...

But ... over the four days leading up to Day 1 of the team event, official practices for men and pairs almost never started before 10:00 am.

The only two exceptions: Wed Feb 7 for men; Tue Feb 6 for pairs.

Whereas on Day 1 of the team event, men's practice/warm-up began at 06:30.

(ETA: And the Team Men's SP itself began at 10:00 am.)

The start times (Korea time) of their official practices from Mon Feb 5 to Fri Feb 9:

Mon Feb 5:

Men and Team Men: 10:00 and 16:00
Pairs and Team Pairs: 15:00 and 21:10

Tue Feb 6:

Men 10:25; Team Men 17:45
Pairs 06:15 and 14:15; Team Pairs 19:05

Wed Feb 7:

Men 7:30 and 13:20; Team Men 19:45
Pairs 13:50; Team Pairs 21:05

Thu Feb 8:

Men 11:30 ; Team Men 17:25
Pairs 10:20; Team Pairs 18:45

Fri Feb 9 (Day 1 of the team event):

Team Men 6:30; Men 9:55
Team Pairs 7:50; Pairs 13:20

pearly said:
.... All of the skaters here have been training and trying to adjust to this schedule for months. No one came to Korea and only then looked at the start times. But for some it didn't work. It takes a while to change your routine and with some elements - like quads - you have to be very careful. ...

:agree:

somelikeitpink said:
Is anybody using it as an excuse though? I mean from the statements I've read it didn't sound like excuses to me.

There's a difference between saying something is not ideal and could have been done better and an excuse.

:agree:

musicfan80 said:
Well, NBC right now is chacking the Ladies SP warmup + the first two skates because of a taped slopestyle snowboarding final. Yes, an American (Red Gerard) won the gold, but what does that tell about what most Americans really want to watch during primetime?

For NBC prime time, it understandably (IMO) was a big deal that a 17-year-old American won an unexpected gold medal -- which also was the very first U.S. medal at 2018 OWG.

I don't remember the exact timeline -- as to whether NBC showed Gerard's win live ... or on slight tape delay.

If on slight delay, I would venture to guess that showing his win live would have meant sacrificing other parts of figure skating.

Given the multi-ring circus that is the Olympics, I think it is unrealistic to expect that NBC prime time would show figure skating in entirety -- at the expense of covering other sports. YMMV.

ETA:

And it did not hurt that the cool acrobatics of slopestyle snowboarding are inherently (IMO) fun/entertaining to watch (even for people [like me] who know less than nothing about the sport).
Similar (IMO) to figure skating in that it is easy for casual fans to enjoy.
(As opposed to something like cross-country skiing, which is not eye candy to me. [I mean no disrespect to cross-country skiers.])

el henry said:
I feel :hopelessness: I can't find the quote. I usually hope that I don't just make things up, but right now I'll need to say I misremembered. :confused2:

But I did find this quote from the Knierims about the fact that they are, out of necessity, skating so many programs:

"Now, they're eager for the team free skate on Monday, and then for the full pairs event next week. It's a lot of programs in a short period of time, to which both of them shrugged.
'We'll do 10 programs if they ask us to,' he [Chris] said. 'It's the Olympics.' "

https://sports.yahoo.com/knierims-rescue-us-opening-day-olympic-team-event-070438705--spt.html

Thanks for your reply, and not to worry.

Definitely appreciate that the two programs from the Knierims were valuable contributions to the team event. Wishing them good luck in the individual competition. :yay:

skatingfan4ever · Feb 11, 2018

Each skater's experience is different because they are different people. Let's not judge anyone too harshly for sharing their own experience. At the end of the day, we will be amazed by the good performances and disappointed by the not-so-good ones, regardless of what time they were skated. I'd rather skaters share their vivid personal experiences than give bland interviews. Here's hoping everyone skates well from here on out! :yes:

Li'Kitsu · Feb 11, 2018

somelikeitpink said:
Is anybody using it as an excuse though? I mean from the statements I've read it didn't sound like excuses to me.

There's a difference between saying something is not ideal and could have been done better and an excuse.

I don't think the skaters used it as excuse, which is why some comments in here are legit just giving me a headache (and the creeps).

Those skaters - they are the ones investing in this sport, in their sport. They invest time and money beyond what most here would know, risk and accept difficult injuries and pain on a nearly daily basis and fight through them with all they have. They have the right to want arrangements that are favorable for them to deliver their best and be supported, instead of this schedule making it difficult for no understandable reason at all. The Olympics aren't any competition, they are special and for most of them a life long dream they very well might only have one shot at, ever. I'd applaud everyone who has the courage to point out how this schedule is not how it should be, how the athletes and the sport itself should be #1 priority - but some people need to say they're "whining", "just need to get it over with", or whatever? Yikes. Anyone of them speaking up might very well do nothing, but everyone just keeping their mouths shut would 100% do nothing - so I very much prefer the former. If anyone would really complain all that much or be disrespectful I'd get it, but being so harsh just on skaters speaking up and having a contrary opinion feels so.... medieval.

Also, it's most certainly not as easy for all the skaters to just "change their schedule" as so many make it sound. There are skaters struggling to get their ice time at all, and not everyone can switch practice schedule however they want to for example.

musicfan80 · Feb 11, 2018

ice coverage said:
For NBC prime time, it understandably (IMO) was a big deal that a 17-year-old American won an unexpected gold medal -- which also was the very first U.S. medal at 2018 OWG.

I don't remember the exact timeline -- as to whether NBC showed Gerard's win live ... or on slight tape delay.

If on slight delay, I would venture to guess that showing his win live would have meant sacrificing other parts of figure skating.

Given the multi-ring circus that is the Olympics, I think it is unrealistic to expect that NBC prime time would show figure skating in entirety -- at the expense of covering other sports. YMMV.

ETA:

And it did not hurt that the cool acrobatics of slopestyle snowboarding are inherently (IMO) fun/entertaining to watch (even for people [like me] who know less than nothing about the sport).
Similar (IMO) to figure skating in that it is easy for casual fans to enjoy.
(As opposed to something like cross-country skiing, which is not eye candy to me. (I mean no disrespect to cross-country skiers.)

I think it also had to do with that many more people in the U.S. participate in skiing and snowboarding than skating. Also the TV ratings for are typically excellent. On most Saturdays & Sundays afternoon, the non-NCAA sports coverage on most U.S. networks is almost always either X Games or motorsports.

What I am further confused about NBC's coverage if that they used so much $$$$ to move figure skating so it will be live, but almost all of the ice hockey matches (which many more Americans will want to watch) won't air live until Seoul's normal time. I think the U.S. women's match against Switzerland is airing tomorrow morning at 2:45am EST. Even most of the alpine skiing (feature prospective superstars Shiffrin and Vonn) won't air until after midnight.

reneerose · Feb 11, 2018

el henry said:
This is the *Olympics*. I don’t care if the comp starts at 5 a.m. Get a grip, get over yourself, and adjust your time clock. Or give your spot to an athlete who would be happy to get up at 3 a.m. to compete there.

Bradie and the Knierims have said they have no problem with the schedule. They have my respect

I think they're morning people though LOL.

draqq · Feb 12, 2018

The early competition time can break the circadian rhythm of any athlete, in addition to being jet lagged, so I'm not surprised that the men had trouble with the quads and triple axels in the SP team event (well, apart from Bychenko). That said, they all knew well in advance that the competition would start at 10am so they had plenty of time to come prepared for that added challenge.

Tutto · Feb 12, 2018

I think one point of what Nathan and others said has been missed: the morning practice started at 6am and there was no time to go back to the village before the comp started. I don't know how things are normally organised but I would definitely want to have a chance to go back to my accommodation, take a shower after the practice, have breakfast and a bit of time to re-focus on the job ahead. The pairs had time to do so, the men didn't, so the complaint if any was not only about the unusually early start but the whole schedule

friedbanana · Feb 12, 2018

Tatsuki Machida's take on the situation: https://twitter.com/iguana012/status/963033458313490432

You can't do anything about it, but still I think it's unfortunate. Priority should be the athletes- not the US audience.

drivingmissdaisy · Feb 12, 2018

From the perspective of wanting to see these athletes perform their very best, I'd like to see a start time that is preferable for the skaters.

largeman · Feb 12, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
From the perspective of wanting to see these athletes perform their very best, I'd like to see a start time that is preferable for the skaters.

Me too.

GrandmaCC · Feb 13, 2018

Amei said:
The skaters had ample notice of when the competitions would be and I call baloney that they've never had to compete at an early time before* - if they can't adjust themselves to compete at an 'early time' then they haven't earned the right to be an Olympic champion.

*the only exception might be to some of the newcomers to the senior circuit like Bradie Tennell who hasn't competed much outside of the US so probably has limited exposure to competing in much different time zones

Gonna have to agree with you here.
I used to haul myself out of bed at 4am for a 5am start at training, yet competitions were always a 9am start (with a 7:30am warm up) for prelims and 6pm (4pm warm up) for finals.

Even as children we were taught to work well in the mornings, otherwise there’d be no evening session!

A few summer Olympics have changed schedules around so that heats are in evenings and finals in the AM - whilst it definitely was weird for people, there had been ample notice and even practice competition prior (within the nation) to help acclimation.

LRK · Feb 13, 2018

I think another thing to consider is the audience on site. It will often be a working day morning in Korea - how full will the stadium be? The first day of the team event was not very well attended. Maybe my concern is unwarranted and the stadium will be full - or nearly full - from now on, but if it is not, I can very well understand why. And the audience on site is far more important to the skaters than the TV audience - after all, the live audience is the one there that can respond to their performances and applaud them when things go well, and cheer them on when things aren't going so well. It is with the live audience that the skaters interact.

composer · Feb 13, 2018

LRK said:
I think another thing to consider is the audience on site. It will often be a working day morning in Korea - how full will the stadium be? The first day of the team event was not very well attended. Maybe my concern is unwarranted and the stadium will be full - or nearly full - from now on, but if it is not, I can very well understand why. And the audience on site is far more important to the skaters than the TV audience - after all, the live audience is the one there that can respond to their performances and applaud them when things go well, and cheer them on when things aren't going so well. It is with the live audience that the skaters interact.

I'd love to see the organizers give free tickets to school kids and make it a field trip of sorts, especially if it was a school day, during school hours and there were lots of empty seats.

Athletes View on 10 AM competition

somelikeitpink

skatesofgold

somelikeitpink

Eclair

skatesofgold

Tavi...

Amei

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

skatingfan4ever

"Our blade takes us in the most amazing places."

Li'Kitsu

musicfan80

reneerose

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom

Tutto

friedbanana

End Turandot!

drivingmissdaisy

largeman

choice beef

GrandmaCC

LRK

composer

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