Is this skate right for me?

SnowLily said:

Okay so they (our store) refused to sell us anything higher than an Elle. Not even a Freestyle. He assured us that I could use it up to doubles, and would only recommend the Competitor to someone who was landing their axel. Seems like you guys wouldn't agree, so the only option is to change the blade?

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SnowLily said:

Oh and I just realized, but Ontario is 2,000 miles away... Any good stores around the Seattle/Vancouver/Portland area?

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There is a Skaters Edge Figure skating store in Coquitlam, BC. They fit up to elite level and should be able to help you properly.


You do not need to change the blade and keep the Elle. You need to go to a higher boot blade combo that is rated for your level or go to a boot and blade separate from one another that will be rated properly to take you to at least doubles.

Sibelius said:

That just sounds fishy. Our fitter is very conservative (and would probably drive Ic3Rabbit NUTS with her opinions!). She'd say that you can land an Axel in an Elle, if you already have strong ankles, but I don't think even she would recommend it as a new skate for someone at your size and skating level. We do have a smaller boy at our Saturday rink working in the doubles class led by one of the top Russian coaches, in Freestyles. I'm sure she would have him in something else if she felt it was necessary for his size and skills. So opinions are going to be all over as to what is appropriate, but the experienced skaters here know what they're talking about and it just doesn't sound like the shop you're at does.

I'm sure someone here can recommend a shop in your area to go visit. Again, you said you have the Elle's already and I'm assuming you can't return them, so I'll say one last time you're good in them for awhile, but find someone to help you move on soon. Changing blades is just a suggestion to make the boots you have work a little better for your long term progress in the short term future.

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My opinions? Uhm.. last I knew I was the one that has helped many here including you which I was thanked for in the past, and am the one with the most experience to be doing so. Please tell me if I misinterpreted what I was quoted above?

The fact that your fitter says you can land an Axel in an Elle if you have "strong" ankles is insane. That boot/blade is rated for HALF rotation jumps. To ask a kid to do an axel (one and a half rotations) on them is ridiculous and will likely injure them. I don't care if she's 66 lbs or whatnot, please do not do it! It would definitely have me going the other direction and not having her put me in any boot of her recommendation.

I help in the Lutz corner because my extensive experience in the sport and the level I have achieved grants me knowing boots through trial, error and just learning along the way. I do this on my own time when I could be doing other things, but I do it because I care, and the last thing I want is someone getting hurt because a "so called" good fitter or a hockey guy decided to pull the wool over a kids eyes and/or their parents eyes and ill fitted them.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Ic3Rabbit said:

There is a Skaters Edge Figure skating store in Coquitlam, BC. They fit up to elite level and should be able to help you properly.


You do not need to change the blade and keep the Elle. You need to go to a higher boot blade combo that is rated for your level or go to a boot and blade separate from one another that will be rated properly to take you to at least doubles.



My opinions? Uhm.. last I knew I was the one that has helped many here including you which I was thanked for in the past, and am the one with the most experience to be doing so. Please tell me if I misinterpreted what I was quoted above?

The fact that your fitter says you can land an Axel in an Elle if you have "strong" ankles is insane. That boot/blade is rated for HALF rotation jumps. To ask a kid to do an axel (one and a half rotations) on them is ridiculous and will likely injure them. I don't care if she's 66 lbs or whatnot, please do not do it! It would definitely have me going the other direction and not having her put me in any boot of her recommendation.

I help in the Lutz corner because my extensive experience in the sport and the level I have achieved grants me knowing boots through trial, error and just learning along the way. I do this on my own time when I could be doing other things, but I do it because I care, and the last thing I want is someone getting hurt because a "so called" good fitter or a hockey guy decided to pull the wool over a kids eyes and/or their parents eyes and ill fitted them.
Nothing more, nothing less.

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No kidding, Ic3Rabbit!

You could try to trade up or keep the Elle boots for going to public skating or skating out doors but don't bother jumping in the Elle boots.

Look into the Premiere if you like the Jackson boots.

Ic3Rabbit said:

There is a Skaters Edge Figure skating store in Coquitlam, BC. They fit up to elite level and should be able to help you properly.


You do not need to change the blade and keep the Elle. You need to go to a higher boot blade combo that is rated for your level or go to a boot and blade separate from one another that will be rated properly to take you to at least doubles.



My opinions? Uhm.. last I knew I was the one that has helped many here including you which I was thanked for in the past, and am the one with the most experience to be doing so. Please tell me if I misinterpreted what I was quoted above?

The fact that your fitter says you can land an Axel in an Elle if you have "strong" ankles is insane. That boot/blade is rated for HALF rotation jumps. To ask a kid to do an axel (one and a half rotations) on them is ridiculous and will likely injure them. I don't care if she's 66 lbs or whatnot, please do not do it! It would definitely have me going the other direction and not having her put me in any boot of her recommendation.

I help in the Lutz corner because my extensive experience in the sport and the level I have achieved grants me knowing boots through trial, error and just learning along the way. I do this on my own time when I could be doing other things, but I do it because I care, and the last thing I want is someone getting hurt because a "so called" good fitter or a hockey guy decided to pull the wool over a kids eyes and/or their parents eyes and ill fitted them.
Nothing more, nothing less.

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I stand by my comments about your knowledge and helpfulness (please help the new one with the Jackson/Riedell issue, I'm out after this one). Here's the thing, my child skated in that boot almost daily for 9 months so we have first hand experience with that model. Hours and hours of Waltz's, Toe Loops, Salchows, Flips, Loops and finally Lutz's, and not a crease in sight (we had them inspected frequently). Her coaches, (former) elite (National and Olympic) competitors themselves, said in no uncertain terms stiffer was not better for her and would stunt her development at the time. They have a different philosophy and it works for us. She desperately wanted the Freestyle, then the original Debut, all her coaches said no, just no, so I trusted them. Her fitter has a different philosophy as well and doesn't rely on the mfg. recs./ratings alone. Oh, why do we trust her? She fits the coaches (and their children) as well, so if they trust her why wouldn't we?

All I wanted to do in this case was let this girl know that someone her size and ability used that specific boot without issue until it was outgrown. Should she have bought it in the first place, maybe not, but evidently she did. Should people come here before they buy the things? sure, but for some reason they don't. So she's got a $250 skate that she's afraid to skate on while looking forward, and I don't think she should be, based on our experience. With that, I'm out. Didn't mean to slight your knowledge and experience at all and I hope the OP can get what she needs from a better shop. Thanks for recommending one for her to visit.

Sibelius said:

I stand by my comments about your knowledge and helpfulness (please help the new one with the Jackson/Riedell issue, I'm out after this one). Here's the thing, my child skated in that boot almost daily for 9 months so we have first hand experience with that model. Hours and hours of Waltz's, Toe Loops, Salchows, Flips, Loops and finally Lutz's, and not a crease in sight (we had them inspected frequently). Her coaches, (former) elite (National and Olympic) competitors themselves, said in no uncertain terms stiffer was not better for her and would stunt her development at the time. They have a different philosophy and it works for us. She desperately wanted the Freestyle, then the original Debut, all her coaches said no, just no, so I trusted them. Her fitter has a different philosophy as well and doesn't rely on the mfg. recs./ratings alone. Oh, why do we trust her? She fits the coaches (and their children) as well, so if they trust her why wouldn't we?

All I wanted to do in this case was let this girl know that someone her size and ability used that specific boot without issue until it was outgrown. Should she have bought it in the first place, maybe not, but evidently she did. Should people come here before they buy the things? sure, but for some reason they don't. So she's got a $250 skate that she's afraid to skate on while looking forward, and I don't think she should be, based on our experience. With that, I'm out. Didn't mean to slight your knowledge and experience at all and I hope the OP can get what she needs from a better shop. Thanks for recommending one for her to visit.

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I don't understand (I'm honestly confused) of why you asked us here previously for our help with your child's boots/blades if you had people that skill level at your home rink and at your disposal, instead of advice from one of us (like myself who was that level).

I don't mind helping, but I just don't want others to get told the wrong thing and 9/10 times on this forum we have stories of that, I've seen it happen in real life and I've seen the injuries. That is all I'm trying to explain, understand and help with. I'm sorry if you don't feel the same.

I sincerely wish all the best for you and your child skater.

Woah guys... I'm thankful for everyone who replied :luv17:
So basically, what it seems like to me:
1. The Elles are not fit for jumping (except half jumps, but I don't like to call them jumps cause you barely even jump), although at most, up to a lutz. Definitely not an axel or doubles
2. Possible other skates are Jackson Debut Fusion, Premiere, or Riedell Bronze Star
3. Don't let hockey players fit you or do anything with your skates
4. The guy didn't know what he was doing, so I shouldn't go back
5. Possibly, the basic rule is for the skate not to crease
6. Changing blades help a lot
Right?...

SnowLily said:

Woah guys... I'm thankful for everyone who replied :luv17:
So basically, what it seems like to me:
1. The Elles are not fit for jumping (except half jumps, but I don't like to call them jumps cause you barely even jump), although at most, up to a lutz. Definitely not an axel or doubles
2. Possible other skates are Jackson Debut Fusion, Premiere, or Riedell Bronze Star
3. Don't let hockey players fit you or do anything with your skates
4. The guy didn't know what he was doing, so I shouldn't go back
5. Possibly, the basic rule is for the skate not to crease
6. Changing blades help a lot
Right?...

Click to expand...

The boot is going to stretch some at your ankles but not a ton or the boot is breaking down. When the leather gets thin, creased, and the outer look of the boot starts to break down at this point, it's a good indication the boot is no longer supporting your ankles as they need to be supported. (You can also tell if the boot doesn't hold your ankle the way it used to and support it or if you feel like you can never tie it appropriately tight enough as you used to in order to support you).

Please look into the place I posted above a few back. Good luck!

Jackson has rerated their boots sometime in the last 18 months. Models like Debut were originally marketed (like when I bought them) as being rated up to doubles. I notice several months later they had downgraded them to UP to the axel. The other boots might have been rerated at this time. This could be either a change in how they make them, feedback in how long they last or a marketing decision.

It is possible that different fitters don't keep up with the changes in models. At the rate Jackson changes their models but keeps the same names I can imagine some confusion occurs

I'm suspicious that the pro shop refused to sell you new skates though they have seen you in person and assumeably your skates in their current state of wear.

Does anyone know if the addition of the thermoplastic sole on some of their models reduces their overall durability? Does the rating change because the sole not the upper becomes the weakest link?

Ic3Rabbit said:

There is a Skaters Edge Figure skating store in Coquitlam, BC. They fit up to elite level and should be able to help you properly.


You do not need to change the blade and keep the Elle. You need to go to a higher boot blade combo that is rated for your level or go to a boot and blade separate from one another that will be rated properly to take you to at least doubles.



My opinions? Uhm.. last I knew I was the one that has helped many here including you which I was thanked for in the past, and am the one with the most experience to be doing so. Please tell me if I misinterpreted what I was quoted above?

The fact that your fitter says you can land an Axel in an Elle if you have "strong" ankles is insane. That boot/blade is rated for HALF rotation jumps. To ask a kid to do an axel (one and a half rotations) on them is ridiculous and will likely injure them. I don't care if she's 66 lbs or whatnot, please do not do it! It would definitely have me going the other direction and not having her put me in any boot of her recommendation.

I help in the Lutz corner because my extensive experience in the sport and the level I have achieved grants me knowing boots through trial, error and just learning along the way. I do this on my own time when I could be doing other things, but I do it because I care, and the last thing I want is someone getting hurt because a "so called" good fitter or a hockey guy decided to pull the wool over a kids eyes and/or their parents eyes and ill fitted them.
Nothing more, nothing less.

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I don’t think he was criticizing you, just saying that the fitter is very opinionated and you might disagree with her recommendations.

Tavi... said:

I don’t think he was criticizing you, just saying that the fitter is very opinionated and you might disagree with her recommendations.

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That's how I read that too; "her" in "her opinions" referred to the fitter, whose very conservative opinions would probably not be liked to Ic3Rabbit. (I took that to mean that the poster thought Ic3Rabbit might well be justified in not liking those opinions, given the high level of respect the poster has repeatedly expressed for Ic3Rabbit.)

Ic3Rabbit said:

I don't understand (I'm honestly confused) of why you asked us here previously for our help with your child's boots/blades if you had people that skill level at your home rink and at your disposal, instead of advice from one of us (like myself who was that level).

I don't mind helping, but I just don't want others to get told the wrong thing and 9/10 times on this forum we have stories of that, I've seen it happen in real life and I've seen the injuries. That is all I'm trying to explain, understand and help with. I'm sorry if you don't feel the same.

I sincerely wish all the best for you and your child skater.

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Because I like to have as much information as I can to help me ask better questions. You know everyone has their biases, right? You have your experiences, our coaches and fitter have their experiences, I have NO EXPERIENCES.

Here, for example in six months or so we're going to need a new boot. You are adamant that a stiffer boot is required, right? Well, her coaches and fitter have their opinions. Now, I can go to them and ask, ok at this stage ( landing Axel, entering doubles), why don't we go with the stiffer Premiere (godawful silver sole and all) instead of the Debut Fusion Firm? Elite competitors tell me she really needs xxx, will she be worse off? Now, getting to Axel and beyond is much more critical to have all the information I can get so she can perform the best her talent will allow.

Here's another example of why I ask guidance here. Coaches all wanted her to move to an intermediate FS blade and wanted her on the MK Pro. She was about to outgrow her Elle's but still had a few months left in them. I didn't really want to spend $250 on a blade for 3 months. I was about to swallow hard and buy one. I learned here that Eclipse makes pretty decent blades. I learned that the "clone" of the Coro Ace/MK Pro was a decent intermediate blade. I found a source for the closed out Eclipse "clone" for $289 for 3 blades in different sizes, coaches/fitter said ok, good enough. Similar skater to mine paid $230 for one pair of MK Pro's that she's already outgrown (on a pair of Elle's BTW). I got some information that the coaches didn't have and used it to make a better (financial) decision at the time. Now she's competent on an intermediate freestyle blade that didn't cost us a fortune to find out. Once we use up that last size I'm pretty confidant we can get an MK Pro and be good with that pattern. Or, maybe find out here that it might be time to ask about moving to an MK Vision, or Gold Seal or Pattern 99.

You presented your case against the Elle's for the OP. She has evidently chosen your viewpoint, fine. She'll be well served with a stiffer boot if she can break them in. I presented my case that the boot she had was much more versatile than Jackson is claiming based on actual use by a skater of similar size and skill level over a good length of time.

It is the strong opinion of our fitter that Jackson is under rating their boots for whatever (she thinks cynical) reason they might have. After seeing how the Elle lasted, well past "half jumps", I have to agree with her on that point for that specific boot. I had my doubts and kept looking for creases and break down that never happened. Her opinion is that, if the boot doesn't break down before they are outgrown it's the right stiffness for that level/size of skater. You disagree. I value that disagreement and I will keep pushing the question, but won't she get injured without more support?

Poster below is right, all I was saying is that she has strong opinions you would disagree with. I disagree with her, and the coaches on some things and make decisions accordingly. Nobody knows everything, and I know nothing about skating so I ask. Sometimes the knowledge I get from here, from you and your fellow skaters makes more sense than the "because that's the way it's always been done" of many coaches (ours included). Pointed questions and answers supported by good arguments lead to better outcomes.

Thanks for your good wishes for my skater and I. Oh, by the way she entered a little head to head skills competition a bit ago and won. We're putting together a program for her to start competing with next season.

Best wishes to you as well. I'm not going anywhere so I'll see you around the threads. Actually, I have a question I'm going to post in another thread. One I can't ask the coaches about.

Umm... Wow guys... :noshake:
Well yesterday there was a 3 hour skating session, so of course I begged to go. The skates were fine up to a salchow, but on a flip, the boot part kind of twisted on the takeoff, and I would just slightly twist my ankle. It wasn't bad, but I don't feel like trying other jumps like that... After many sit spins, the skate creased more than I thought it would. So these skates are probably not going to last me long.

SnowLily said:

Umm... Wow guys... :noshake:
Well yesterday there was a 3 hour skating session, so of course I begged to go. The skates were fine up to a salchow, but on a flip, the boot part kind of twisted on the takeoff, and I would just slightly twist my ankle. It wasn't bad, but I don't feel like trying other jumps like that... After many sit spins, the skate creased more than I thought it would. So these skates are probably not going to last me long.

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Wow, you must be an incredibly powerful jumper and spinner. That you were able to do all that in a Mystique is impressive. Ic3Rabbit was right on for you I suppose. I know at least 5 girls your size and bigger who are fine in that boot with those jumps and more, but looks like you aren't one of them. I guess you'll be the guinea pig for the new Premiere. If you don't like the sole it comes with ask about the other options, LCL (traditional leather-cork-leather) LCF (Leather-Carbon Fiber) or the Fusion soles. $85 option and 6 week wait from what I understand. Best of luck breaking that one in coming from a Mystique, be patient and get some bunga sleeves.

All the best, make sure you get to that shop Ic3Rabbit recommended for a proper fitting. Maybe you can sell or trade the Elle's in for a blade to go on your next boots.

Sibelius said:

Wow, you must be an incredibly powerful jumper and spinner. That you were able to do all that in a Mystique is impressive. Ic3Rabbit was right on for you I suppose. I know at least 5 girls your size and bigger who are fine in that boot with those jumps and more, but looks like you aren't one of them. I guess you'll be the guinea pig for the new Premiere. If you don't like the sole it comes with ask about the other options, LCL (traditional leather-cork-leather) LCF (Leather-Carbon Fiber) or the Fusion soles. $85 option and 6 week wait from what I understand. Best of luck breaking that one in coming from a Mystique, be patient and get some bunga sleeves.

All the best, make sure you get to that shop Ic3Rabbit recommended for a proper fitting. Maybe you can sell or trade the Elle's in for a blade to go on your next boots.

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Hahaha yes, I surprised myself too. I was never hard on my skates, and if you looked at my old skates, you wouldn't have thought I used them for jumps and spins. Probably because when I first started, I was really excited and practiced a lot. But then in Basic 3, I met my skating best friend, and I would play with her the entire time. She didn't like skating, but she only skated because her older sister was an amazing skater, so she was kind of expected to be good too. So my skates never got broken down. But I couldn't pass my skating tests like that, so for a while, I was focused and skated a lot. I got really far, like my group lessons coach would have me practice sit spins in the corner while everyone else did 2-foot spins. Sadly, we moved. Well now, I like to practice alone, and for long periods of time. I have no idea how I worn down the Elles, even with intense spins and jumps.
On YouTube, you can see #HireSkatesChallenge or something like that. But I always thought those were fake, because I can do stuff perfectly fine, maybe not as good, but fine on rental skates. I guess I'm pretty strange
Thank you for your replies though! :agree:

SnowLily said:

Umm... Wow guys... :noshake:
Well yesterday there was a 3 hour skating session, so of course I begged to go. The skates were fine up to a salchow, but on a flip, the boot part kind of twisted on the takeoff, and I would just slightly twist my ankle. It wasn't bad, but I don't feel like trying other jumps like that... After many sit spins, the skate creased more than I thought it would. So these skates are probably not going to last me long.

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New skates are often stiff and hard to tighten sufficiently. Even if they feel tight, as they are shifting and breaking in, the fit can change from the beginning of the session to the end. This can mean they don't get tight enough during the break-in period. As the skate breaks in and the tongue gets a little softer, you may find that you can pull them tighter and that may alleviate the issue.

AndreaRu said:

New skates are often stiff and hard to tighten sufficiently. Even if they feel tight, as they are shifting and breaking in, the fit can change from the beginning of the session to the end. This can mean they don't get tight enough during the break-in period. As the skate breaks in and the tongue gets a little softer, you may find that you can pull them tighter and that may alleviate the issue.

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Oh! So you mean that it will be easier to tie as you wear the skate down, and so the skate will be stiffer? Cause that would probably help. I tied them twice but then gave up because since my feet weren't caving in, I didn't want to tie them a 3rd time

SnowLily said:

Oh! So you mean that it will be easier to tie as you wear the skate down, and so the skate will be stiffer? Cause that would probably help. I tied them twice but then gave up because since my feet weren't caving in, I didn't want to tie them a 3rd time

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Not so much that they will be stiffer, but as they get more broken in, it's a little easier to tie them tighter since the tongue bends a bit and conforms more to your ankle. A lot of skaters have issues getting newer skates tight enough in the beginning because the tongues are hard to bend. There's a sweet spot where the skates are broken down enough to tie nice and tight, but not broken down. How long it takes to get there depends on how many hours you skate, how heavy you are, how tight you can get your laces, etc... so it's variable.

AndreaRu said:

Not so much that they will be stiffer, but as they get more broken in, it's a little easier to tie them tighter since the tongue bends a bit and conforms more to your ankle. A lot of skaters have issues getting newer skates tight enough in the beginning because the tongues are hard to bend. There's a sweet spot where the skates are broken down enough to tie nice and tight, but not broken down. How long it takes to get there depends on how many hours you skate, how heavy you are, how tight you can get your laces, etc... so it's variable.

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That's what I meant when I said they'll be stiffer I guess that'll probably help with the twisting-during-a-flip problem, right?

Since they won't refund the skates (oh well), I'll try if the tongue will loosen up, like AndreaRu said. If they do, then I'll get a better blade (any suggestions?). If they don't... Umm... I'll think of that later...

SnowLily said:

Since they won't refund the skates (oh well), I'll try if the tongue will loosen up, like AndreaRu said. If they do, then I'll get a better blade (any suggestions?). If they don't... Umm... I'll think of that later...

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Do you tie your own skates? You're a year older than my daughter, but about her size, so I feel like maybe this might be relevant. For a lot of the girls around your age, the moms tie their skates for a while after they get new ones. I still almost always tie my daughter's skates even though she's almost 12 and has been skating for more than 5 years. She just doesn't have the finger strength to get the tops as tight as she likes them (and as safe as they should be). She can do it, but it's difficult for her and she struggles with time (when time is short to get on the ice). It may help to have an adult tie your skates for a while until they break in.

AndreaRu said:

Do you tie your own skates? You're a year older than my daughter, but about her size, so I feel like maybe this might be relevant. For a lot of the girls around your age, the moms tie their skates for a while after they get new ones. I still almost always tie my daughter's skates even though she's almost 12 and has been skating for more than 5 years. She just doesn't have the finger strength to get the tops as tight as she likes them (and as safe as they should be). She can do it, but it's difficult for her and she struggles with time (when time is short to get on the ice). It may help to have an adult tie your skates for a while until they break in.

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My mom ties them for me, but this time they didn't feel tight enough, so I pulled on the laces on the bottom, and tied them again.