Pairs skating | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Pairs skating

TryMeLater

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
I love pairs but I think IJS helped and hurt the discipline at the same time which hurt it's popularity.
The elements have gotten a lot more difficult and thrilling to watch, almost all pairs are now doing 3Twist when only in 2002 many pairs were still doing only a 2Twist.
However, IJS has killed the creativity and a lot of the lifts look the same and repetitive, that's why when you finally see something different (like James/Cipres entrances and exits from elements) it immediately catches your eye.
 

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
So glad I really am not the only one who just loves the pairs (and feels for all the dangers). Glad to note that at least the FS fans think somewhat differently than I first thought - and yes, of course, some did get into it only shortly ago. Because of S/H, S/M or otherwise. Perfect, these are excellent skaters. But I noticed there were also posters who have been fans of this discipline since from the beginning of time, with fans of G&G and M/D and K/D also adding to the remarks. As well as even earlier on. Yay! I've been a fan of pairs for a long, long time - and have also had my down seasons. But at least for the moment it's fantastic. With S/M and S/H having stretched the artistic part (while keeping a technical high) and D/H stretching the technics. The future looks promising too - I believe T/M will be back with better programmes (and they showed at world's they can even medal with a not so good FS), while I also think S/B will improve. And I do hope both the Germans and French will stay on...
 

Alifyre

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
As a recent (and still tentative) entrant into the world of pairs, I must say the biggest thing for me that kept me off pairs was how element focused so many of the programs seemed. We've got some very beautiful and expressive pairs, but overall I feel I can connect more emotionally with a singles skater or a dance couple because their programs tend to have more breathing room for performance. I also tend not to find much terribly exciting or musical about pairs lifts compared to dance lifts. It's a nice discipline though, and I've enjoyed my foray into it since the Olympics!

The biggest issue though, I find pairs so scary! When I first started watching fs I would always see pairs and freak out a little during twists and lifts. "What if he drops the poor girl??" was always at the back of my mind. And that one video where the lady got kicked in the face during sbs spins?? Haunts me to this day...
 

GrandmaCC

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
My theories:
Personality -
I’m a fan now, but only because Aljona drew me in. Not even her & Bruno initially, just her and her story. Many people who never watch skating shared that LP on social media as an example of achieving dreams at a later age, etc.

Now that I do watch pairs, I will make an effort to watch both skaters individually, then how they interact together, and then the whole overall effect.
(That I’ve noticed is a kind of criticism leveled at some skaters, “I find myself watching just her...” often people seem to view the men as just a prop).

Narrative and the Saucy Factor -
Anyone read all of those articles at Peyongchang time? The “Which couple are dancing off-ice? *wink wink*” ones? And how much mention Hubbell/Donahue’s past relationship received?
The viewing public all seem to want to watch a real life couple skate, it kills the illusion for them to realise that the team who look so in love on ice are actually married to other people.

Not to mention that it is far easier to craft an image of a single skater than a team, especially when there isn’t the Love Stuff to rely on.

Can the casual fan tell the difference?
Ice dance vs Pairs - how many “lay” people do you who could tell you the difference? Or who will spend ages asking you why “that team from yesterday, the ones in green...” aren’t competing today?

I do personally think that the last quad has allowed for more interesting music choices, more of each team’s individual personalities to shine, and for a step away from Nothing But Love On Ice.
Social media too is allowing viewers to invest in teams. Hopefully this will help.
 

GrandmaCC

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Another thing, although it is obviously their aim to make their difficult moves look easy, for a viewer, some of the hardest moves can simply look cool or pretty.
This is why I have give Belinda Noonan props for her relentless talking throughout the Olympics, she did mention things like how head alignment made a spin more difficult, just random technical things that may drive mad those wanting to, you know, hear the music lol, but did cause you to have more appreciation for the little things.
Aljona & Bruno, for example, if you watch them do run throughs in their workout gear, it will show off far more of the strength and flexibility and control that they use. Then when you watch the same thing done in a flowy outfit, it just doesn’t look anywhere near as difficult - it goes from “omg look at how she’s using her obliques!!” To “wow!! He’s holding her in the air and skating!!” - even though you know differently.
Singles have a lot of jumps, things that “obviously” take “effort”, and that happen in quick succession to hold interest, so maybe people are more appreciative of this?
 

perspicuosity

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Another thing, although it is obviously their aim to make their difficult moves look easy, for a viewer, some of the hardest moves can simply look cool or pretty.
This is why I have give Belinda Noonan props for her relentless talking throughout the Olympics, she did mention things like how head alignment made a spin more difficult, just random technical things that may drive mad those wanting to, you know, hear the music lol, but did cause you to have more appreciation for the little things.
Aljona & Bruno, for example, if you watch them do run throughs in their workout gear, it will show off far more of the strength and flexibility and control that they use. Then when you watch the same thing done in a flowy outfit, it just doesn’t look anywhere near as difficult - it goes from “omg look at how she’s using her obliques!!” To “wow!! He’s holding her in the air and skating!!” - even though you know differently.
Singles have a lot of jumps, things that “obviously” take “effort”, and that happen in quick succession to hold interest, so maybe people are more appreciative of this?

Any recommendations of where to find videos of Belinda commentating? I'd love to hear this level of technical detail. The only North American commentator who approaches it is our own Canadian Eeyore, David Pelletier.

Also, I agree with you. Lifts are a great example -- they look so easy when in fact they are insanely hard. Maybe this is why Bruno gets no respect?
 

labgoat

I have no words
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
For the U.S. pairs, the tendency to not stay together long enough has been a problem. It seems to be a little better now, but devastating injuries haven't helped much either -- Haven Denney completely blowing out her knee, Tarah Kayne knee surgery, Alexa Knieram's life-threatening illness...Hopefully we can start moving in the right direction now. I know in several "Wish List" threads, I have written that someone needs to convince Tamara Moskvina to come to the U.S. and lead the pairs program. (I know, fat chance, right?! :laugh: )

John Zimmerman with Kyoto Ina took from Moskvina for a time...
 

TryMeLater

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Any recommendations of where to find videos of Belinda commentating? I'd love to hear this level of technical detail. The only North American commentator who approaches it is our own Canadian Eeyore, David Pelletier.

Also, I agree with you. Lifts are a great example -- they look so easy when in fact they are insanely hard. Maybe this is why Bruno gets no respect?

Belinda has commented on all of the Olympic events. It's available on the Olympic channel website.
 

TryMeLater

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
The biggest issue though, I find pairs so scary! When I first started watching fs I would always see pairs and freak out a little during twists and lifts. "What if he drops the poor girl??" was always at the back of my mind. And that one video where the lady got kicked in the face during sbs spins?? Haunts me to this day...

That's the reason Nina Mozer gave for taking a break from figure skating.
She said that the pressure of constantly worrying for her pair girls was getting to her (and even affecting her health).
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
John Zimmerman with Kyoto Ina took from Moskvina for a time...

In an interview, relatively recently (a year or so perhaps?), he spoke very appreciatively about her, and how much she'd influenced him in his coaching. (He was being interviewed re coaching James/Cipres.)
 

elbkup

Power without conscience is a savage weapon
Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Country
United-States
Most of the time it feels like two "inferior" single skaters got together so that they can have a career.
There are not enough elements that makes pairs competition feel special.
For example I'd much rather watch this
Hfjq8VO.gif
than 3t+2t+2t.

Of course this doesn't mean that there should be double jumps galore but maybe there could be another element which focuses on the unison instead of rotation.

Also to me big male/small female couples are so lame to watch. Taking a 40 kg. girl and throwing it around is more like a weightlifting competition. Most of the time males don't have any grace and females don't have any strength. It is very unbalanced.

Wish we had more Sui/Han type of pairs. They really look like a pair instead of being put together for their sizes.

Actually Vanessa James referred to the size issue in a recent interview ... don't remember which one but it is posted in their FF... Vanessa said she is taller and more bulked up (more muscle=more weight) than the average female pairs skater so she and Morgan are more evenly matched in size than most pairs competing today. Pairs and ice dance are my favorite disciplines precisely because they are two skaters moving as one... I like the complexity of the relationship between two bodies, two minds, two very different psyches performing in unison. It's tense, thrilling, exhilarating and mind blowing when it comes off well, heart breaking when it doesn't. I tend to like individual singles skaters for specific reasons but couples are so different.... kind of like horse and rider...there is danger but also joy and wonder.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
So glad I really am not the only one who just loves the pairs (and feels for all the dangers). Glad to note that at least the FS fans think somewhat differently than I first thought - and yes, of course, some did get into it only shortly ago. Because of S/H, S/M or otherwise. Perfect, these are excellent skaters. But I noticed there were also posters who have been fans of this discipline since from the beginning of time, with fans of G&G and M/D and K/D also adding to the remarks. As well as even earlier on. Yay! I've been a fan of pairs for a long, long time - and have also had my down seasons. But at least for the moment it's fantastic. With S/M and S/H having stretched the artistic part (while keeping a technical high) and D/H stretching the technics. The future looks promising too - I believe T/M will be back with better programmes (and they showed at world's they can even medal with a not so good FS), while I also think S/B will improve. And I do hope both the Germans and French will stay on...

In the 2016-17 season we had a thread dedicated to pairs in general (rather than any one country). I think that was a great idea since I think that we pair fans are generally appreciative of pairs from many countries. Of course this happens in other disciplines too, but I think this is especially the case for pairs. I think we are less apt to think in terms of "Country X pairs Vs Country Y pairs". It was, on the whole, a very positive thread, as not only do I think that pairs fans tend to be less nationalistically biassed, but also often have a love of the discipline in general and therefore even can respect the qualities of teams that aren't one's favourites, and wish them well and improvement in the areas where they may have weaknesses.
 

elbkup

Power without conscience is a savage weapon
Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Country
United-States
Just want to respond to comments in this thread about American pairs...

Alexa and Chris have had their setbacks, it is true, but were well on their way to being a strong competitive pair on the international level. I feel with a coaching change they will come back strong ..

Cain & Leduc show promise imho... she and he are well matched in size too.. here is their FP at Nationals..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HcG5mKiF9yQ

And this young couple was amazing... she is a firecracker.. can't wait to see more!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL98f_SV3B7Hb7g7PsjklgeqAnmgV6n_Av&v=YDSLIxuVHi8
 

Piett

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Speaking of terrifying pairs falls: here's Morozov dropping Tarasova about 8 feet: https://youtu.be/Y9p1gUU7olw?t=4m33s (She was fine! I have no idea how.)

That was brutal. It always looks so easy until it doesn't. She seemed to be in quite some pain but ignored it until they had finished the program. I've always wondered how the girls are able to regain confidence in a guy after something like this. And I guess if I were Morozov I would have quit the sport that very moment. I'm not gonna injure my partner. I was lucky once I'm not gonna risk it again.
 

princessalica

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
I only really got into watching pairs because I like Cain and LeDuc. I also think Stellato and Bartholomay have a great story. Pairs is really cool to watch, but so much riskier than the other disciplines.
 

Arriba627

TWO-TIME WORLD CHAMPION 🔥
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Country
United-States
That was brutal. It always looks so easy until it doesn't. She seemed to be in quite some pain but ignored it until they had finished the program. I've always wondered how the girls are able to regain confidence in a guy after something like this. And I guess if I were Morozov I would have quit the sport that very moment. I'm not gonna injure my partner. I was lucky once I'm not gonna risk it again.

These pairs gals have to be tough. This happened right in front of me at Sk Amer, and I had a hard time believing she continued to skate. She looked like she was hurt. I'm always amazed they can regroup and have the fortitude to go on. They did such a beautiful SP, and it was a shame that things just seemed to unravel in the FS. Although they still did manage to win the bronze medal. https://youtu.be/mL5Rw_gJ128?t=82
 

Miriam090

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
This fall scares the life out of me every time I see it... How she wasn't injured beyond bruises amazes me. (I can't believe she actually finished the program though - she looked in serious pain. I wouldn't have been able to!)
 

campbellka

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Didn't Grinkov drop Gordeeva to the ice, like a month, before Calgary? She hit her head, was hospitalized, and the next month, they won gold.
 

MGstyle

Crawling around on the ice after chestnuts
Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
To me the main reason is the lack of marketing from the media, the PR department of ISU, or whatever the source that help generate the public attention. They tend to focus on singles skaters in this aspect. Right now there may be relatively few pairs with enough charisma and mass appeal aside from Aljona & Bruno, but IMO Vanessa & Morgan and Vale & Ondrej for example can enjoy a pretty big stardom, if given a right amount of push and marketing.
 
Top