Yuna Kim's double-double-double | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Yuna Kim's double-double-double

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
If she only had 4 different kinds of triples to work with, then 6 is the maximum number of triples she could legally include. Only 2 different kinds can be repeated.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Yuna could have done a 4Lz+4T and still have gotten the silver. Sochi is a memory most don't want to think about. That was not a competition but a skating show showcasing national pride of Russia. The only good thing that came out of the competition was Yulia's performances. Sucks that Yuna's last performances were done at a scam event.

Not one ladies OGMist under COP has won without winning TES. Artistry can carry you to wins almost everywhere except the Olympics.
 

NadezhdaNadya

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
If she only had 4 different kinds of triples to work with, then 6 is the maximum number of triples she could legally include. Only 2 different kinds can be repeated.

I think she could repeat all of her 4 triples, no? For instance:
3Lz-3T
3F
3S-2T-2Lo or 3F-2T-2Lo
3F-3T or 3S-3T
3S
3Lz
2A

So, she could even have 8 triple jumps.
 

cohen-esque

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
I think she could repeat all of her 4 triples, no? For instance:
3Lz-3T
3F
3S-2T-2Lo or 3F-2T-2Lo
3F-3T or 3S-3T
3S
3Lz
2A

So, she could even have 8 triple jumps.
No. Between all the triples and quads, skaters are only allowed to repeat two of them. Zakay rule.
 

cohen-esque

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Thank you. :) I did not know. So she did the maximum! Love you, Yuna! :love: :love: :love:
What about the doubles? Yuna had three 2 axels in her 2010 Olympics FS.

Rules changed after to limit it to two. And later, they expanded it to limit all doubles to 2 maximum. (Mao and Miki used to do something like 5 or 6 +2Los per program.) At the time, the max 2A limit was three, and she used it to replace the 3Lo. The changed limit is probably why they dropped the 2A+3T, because she was stuck needing to fill another jumping pass.

Really, the rule changes after Vancouver were designed to hinder skaters like Yuna and Evan, who would rely on quality and huge GOEs. I don’t really disagree; while Yuna was awesome, I didn’t think it was fair for her four, five, six-triples skate to be able to stomp Mao landing as many triples with two 3As. GOE factors were introduced to shift importance to base value, although apparently now they want to go the other way again.

Leaving aside the 2Lz in combo that she could’ve done, her 2013/2014 content was as high as she could realistically do under the rules.
 

NadezhdaNadya

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Rules changed after to limit it to two. And later, they expanded it to limit all doubles to 2 maximum. (Mao and Miki used to do something like 5 or 6 +2Los per program.) At the time, the max 2A limit was three, and she used it to replace the 3Lo. The changed limit is probably why they dropped the 2A+3T, because she was stuck needing to fill another jumping pass.

Really, the rule changes after Vancouver were designed to hinder skaters like Yuna and Evan, who would rely on quality and huge GOEs. I don’t really disagree; while Yuna was awesome, I didn’t think it was fair for her four, five, six-triples skate to be able to stomp Mao landing as many triples with two 3As. GOE factors were introduced to shift importance to base value, although apparently now they want to go the other way again.

Leaving aside the 2Lz in combo that she could’ve done, her 2013/2014 content was as high as she could realistically do under the rules.

Hmm, but the quality of Yuna's jumps are amazing! Much better than Mao's. Sorry. Yes, Mao could do 3A as a single jump and 3A in combo. She could do all of the 6 triples and have 8 triples in the FS. Yet Yuna's technique is much superior than Mao's.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Not one ladies OGMist under COP has won without winning TES. Artistry can carry you to wins almost everywhere except the Olympics.

Yes. If you're not undeniably technically superior, you're easily beatable. And Yuna was not undeniably superior on TES.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Hmm, but the quality of Yuna's jumps are amazing! Much better than Mao's. Sorry. Yes, Mao could do 3A as a single jump and 3A in combo. She could do all of the 6 triples and have 8 triples in the FS. Yet Yuna's technique is much superior than Mao's.

True. The quality of her 4 triples was superior. And GOEs reflected that. That is why she almost never needed more than 5 or 6 triples to win all her titles or medals.
 

NadezhdaNadya

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Hmm... I am wondering, is it possible to include 5 different triples in a program and to repeat only one of them? :confused:
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Hmm... I am wondering, is it possible to include 5 different triples in a program and to repeat only one of them? :confused:

Yes. Oksana Baiul attempted 5 triples in her free skates and repeated none. Under COP, she'd be leaving a lot of points on the table. You want to repeat two because it means you don't have to train as many different jumps.
 

sarama

Medalist
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Once again, my thread is not about the 2A. In fact, she had three (!!!) 2A in her Olympics 2010 FS program. She repeated that jump three times.
My thread is about the reasons why she did not have triple-double-double like many other ladies. Carolina did 3S-2T-2T in Olympics 2014. Yuna did again 2A-2T-2Lo.
Yuna is my favourite skater. High expectations.

It doesn't make any difference to do to 2Axels alone and a 3-2-2 or a 2A-2-2 a solo 2A and a solo 3, the total max GOE and of course the BV don't change. To maximise GOE she should have had as few doubles not in combo with a triple as possible, so technically doing a 3Lz-2T, 3S-2T-2Lo and 2A-3T would have been the best option for her (and also easier), but there is this legend that 3-3s are important for PCS, so I don't know. All things considered I think she made the right choices, except maybe the 3S-2T in the 2nd half like in Les Mis. It's not her fault the judging was what it was, and just saying but IMHO the most controversial result was the SP, even more than the FS
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Yuna was great for her time, and nobody was challenging her technical content. Things can be different if she didn't retire.
 

cohen-esque

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
It doesn't make any difference to do to 2Axels alone and a 3-2-2 or a 2A-2-2 a solo 2A and a solo 3, the total max GOE and of course the BV don't change. To maximise GOE she should have had as few doubles not in combo with a triple as possible, so technically doing a 3Lz-2T, 3S-2T-2Lo and 2A-3T would have been the best option for her (and also easier), but there is this legend that 3-3s are important for PCS, so I don't know. All things considered I think she made the right choices, except maybe the 3S-2T in the 2nd half like in Les Mis. It's not her fault the judging was what it was, and just saying but IMHO the most controversial result was the SP, even more than the FS

It’s probably better, for a skater with only 6 triples in the free, to just maintain one 3+3 instead of also training a 2A+3T. They’re going to need that 3+3 in the short program.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Yuna was great for her time, and nobody was challenging her technical content. Things can be different if she didn't retire.

I disagree. Many girls had this level of technical content and even more challenging. Not just the same GOEs.
 

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom
Record Breaker
Joined
May 10, 2010
Mainly because there is no points difference in the base value of the overall jump layout. A 3Lz and 2A+2T+2Lo has the same base value as a 3Lz+2T+2Lo and 2A, for instance. The +2T+2Lo combination also tends to make it slightly more difficult to complete the pass with a lot of speed at the end which knocks a bit off GOE.
 

Seren

Wakabond Forever
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
You know it's the off season when golden skate is back to rehashing the same arguments about Yuna. :slink:

1. Yuna had very good jump technique and achieved high GOE because of her speed, flow, etc.
2. She stopped doing good a 3 loop because it caused pain.
3. While there were skaters who were better spinners or better jumpers Yuna was very good at pretty much everything- not necessarily the best at one specific thing (except maybe the 3z-3t) but good across the board.
4. Yuna was mentally very strong, this was probably her biggest strength.
5. I don't think her gold medals really care why she was successful.


But back to the OP- it is interesting to see how rules evolve. It makes me wonder what we will see 10 years from now.
 
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