Thoughts on Evgenia Medvedeva's 2018-19 Season | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Thoughts on Evgenia Medvedeva's 2018-19 Season

TGee

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
On arm positions, I think we need to wait until the judging criteria and Statement of Values comes out for the new judging schema.

Orser's already talked about how the program layout strategy will need to change to respond to the rule changes.

Plus/minus 5 GOE points will give an enormous range. What the trade off will be in GOE in arm position vs high and/or long jumps etc.

One can assume that the elements and choreography will be chosen strategically to maximize Zhenya's potential score.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
On arm positions, I think we need to wait until the judging criteria and Statement of Values comes out for the new judging schema.

Orser's already talked about how the program layout strategy will need to change to respond to the rule changes.

Plus/minus 5 GOE points will give an enormous range. What the trade off will be in GOE in arm position vs high and/or long jumps etc.

One can assume that the elements and choreography will be chosen strategically to maximize Zhenya's potential score.

Looking at Zhenya's jumps without tanos, its not like they are just much bigger than with tanos. If she does not tano, her jumps still are average in height and distance.
So my guess here is that as long as tanos and rippons count for GOE, they will be still done.
 

TGee

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Looking at Zhenya's jumps without tanos, its not like they are just much bigger than with tanos. If she does not tano, her jumps still are average in height and distance.
So my guess here is that as long as tanos and rippons count for GOE, they will be still done.
Uhm, but we can expect that working with Tracy Wilson on skating skills at TCC, will increase Zhenya's speed and may lead to bigger jumps for her.

At which point, the whole equation changes. And the choices are different.

Lubov Ilyushechkina has mentioned on more than one occasion that, despite being qualified as a coach herself in Russia, Tracy took her back to first principles on basic things like cross-cuts. Luba's been quoted as saying she couldn't believe that she was relearning cross-cuts after doing them for decades.

And if we consider the speed that Canadian women attain as they accelerate into their jumps, it will be interesting to see what this means for Zhenya...

Gabby Daleman and Alaine Chartrand typically reach about 30 kph heading into a 3Lz and Katelyn Osmond a bit less according to some analysis here on GS after World's in 2017.

Gabby does beautiful tano jumps, but hasn't yet chosen to use them in competition. But then the equation will be changing for her too...

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi5fgf2Fqzf/?hl=en

I really hope that Gabby and Zhenya can develop a friendship at TCC.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
I kinda wish for some better examples really. I mean, its not like Lubov, Daleman and Chartrand are even comparable to Zhenya's level.
You cannot compare Daleman and Chartrand to Medvedeva, really, since their programs have nowhere near the number of transitions that Medvedeva's programs have. Lets not discuss quality here, but there is a clear difference in quantity.

I dunno, speed itself could lead to bigger jumps (but how much bigger?) - pretty sure Gabby and Chartrand always had bigger jumps, and it was not the case of them having average jumps and then Tracy teaching them to jump big. Speed also means less control and more mistakes. Difficult entries and steps and transitions everywhere may also be a sort of a trade off with speed.

Somehow I do not see Medvedeva starting to jump like Tuktamysheva. But if she does, she will be able to jump big *and* do tanos and rippons. And if the improvement is small, her jumps will be still average and muscled, just a bit less, and it will be still worth to keep tanos.
 

iskate

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
So, I don't post very often on here, but I just wanted to share my excitement about the fact that I saw BOrser in the flesh today! He is currently here in Melbourne, Australia, running a 2-day coaches' seminar (apparently ISU paid to have him brought here as part of an international development competition/camp). From what I saw of the seminar, he is an amazing coach (which I guess we already knew...) and a generally nice person (taking photos with all the younger skaters).

Zhenya is in good hands, IMO. I'm excited to see what this season brings for her! :cheer:
 

Sugar Coated

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
I kinda wish for some better examples really. I mean, its not like Lubov, Daleman and Chartrand are even comparable to Zhenya's level.
You cannot compare Daleman and Chartrand to Medvedeva, really, since their programs have nowhere near the number of transitions that Medvedeva's programs have. Lets not discuss quality here, but there is a clear difference in quantity.

I dunno, speed itself could lead to bigger jumps (but how much bigger?) - pretty sure Gabby and Chartrand always had bigger jumps, and it was not the case of them having average jumps and then Tracy teaching them to jump big. Speed also means less control and more mistakes. Difficult entries and steps and transitions everywhere may also be a sort of a trade off with speed.

Somehow I do not see Medvedeva starting to jump like Tuktamysheva. But if she does, she will be able to jump big *and* do tanos and rippons. And if the improvement is small, her jumps will be still average and muscled, just a bit less, and it will be still worth to keep tanos.
Not an expert at all, but watching some of her earlier performances from 1-2 years ago, I noticed she had better jumps. They seemed bigger (although not “big”) but again I’m not an expert. They also seemed less muscled and effortful. I kind of believe over training and not eating enough may have limited her abilities in recent seasons. It will be interesting to see what she is capable of when she gets healthy.
 

synteis

Medalist
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
I rewatched her 2016 Worlds FS today and was reminded of how much I loved that performance. You can see a little jump muscling and she doesn't have the best SS but her choreographing and performance was so cool. The way transitions and backloading were incorporated was properly beautiful and impressive. The program felt filled but not stuffed and the transitions didn't feel like they were just there for the points. While there were hand gestures and facial emoting, it didn't feel like miming, just like a full body expression of the story. I've definitely enjoyed other programs of hers but that's a real favourite.

Will be interesting to see how her programs change (and how they don't) this year. Personally I'm hoping for a program that makes me feel like I do watching this one.
 

TGee

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
I kinda wish for some better examples really. I mean, its not like Lubov, Daleman and Chartrand are even comparable to Zhenya's level.
You cannot compare Daleman and Chartrand to Medvedeva, really, since their programs have nowhere near the number of transitions that Medvedeva's programs have. Lets not discuss quality here, but there is a clear difference in quantity.

I dunno, speed itself could lead to bigger jumps (but how much bigger?) - pretty sure Gabby and Chartrand always had bigger jumps, and it was not the case of them having average jumps and then Tracy teaching them to jump big. Speed also means less control and more mistakes. Difficult entries and steps and transitions everywhere may also be a sort of a trade off with speed.

Somehow I do not see Medvedeva starting to jump like Tuktamysheva. But if she does, she will be able to jump big *and* do tanos and rippons. And if the improvement is small, her jumps will be still average and muscled, just a bit less, and it will be still worth to keep tanos.
Comparison of individuals was less my intention than to provide concrete examples of the differences in what TAT and others call the North American style vs Russian.

One doesn't expect that Zhenya will turn into a North American style skater, but my point is that it's hard to predict how the differences (1) in training; and (2) in the judging system for this quadrennial will ripple through Zhenya's elements, lay out, and choreography.

I find it fun to speculate, but I also am very excited to see how it all will play out. I do hope that Zhenya will be given the time and space to let the evolution happen.

What we do know is that fundamentals such as skating skills, fitness and strength training, natural acting instruction, spins, and sports psychology are part of the TCC method.

Luba may be in a different league in your view, but she is also very much a product of the Russian method and has a degree and had started the development process as a coach in Russia as well. So her observations on the transition are helpful to keep in mind. One might also consider how much her physique and expression evolved as she trained at TCC.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
I have to disagree with you here. For me, jumps are most beautifully executed when the arms are tightly secured in one's chest. Take Carolina, for example. Her jumps are textbook for me and I guess I'm just old-fashioned as I enjoy her jumps the most
Most jumps are done with that position because its easier to do it that way. Naturally and in context of everyday human conversations that arms position is not best at all. Arms down or arms up (like tano or rip position) are more freely positions tho. When you jump with arms holding your chests you communicate you are not sure or afraid you will fail. I mean, its simple body talking. Classic position communicates 'im holding my body not to fall', rip position communicates sureness and freedom. Edit: What is more beatifull is subjective. For me not all rip or tano jumps are aesthitically pleasing, the same with classic arms position. I would say that Adams and Zagitovas jumps with arms above are. Caros arms in classic position are better than most of the others with same position, i agree.
 

50 Words for Snow

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Country
United-States
Not an expert at all, but watching some of her earlier performances from 1-2 years ago, I noticed she had better jumps. They seemed bigger (although not “big”) but again I’m not an expert. They also seemed less muscled and effortful. I kind of believe over training and not eating enough may have limited her abilities in recent seasons. It will be interesting to see what she is capable of when she gets healthy.

I was just watching a video of her 2016 World FS that was overdubbed with Once Upon a December (it actually fit rather well) from Anastasia, and I was thinking the same thing when I saw her jumping.
 

squall1111

Match Penalty
Joined
May 7, 2018
I was just watching a video of her 2016 World FS that was overdubbed with Once Upon a December (it actually fit rather well) from Anastasia, and I was thinking the same thing when I saw her jumping.
I think it may depend on the skater. Yuzuru has very low body percentage which allows him to he light enough to jump massive quads.
 

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
... all I want is a CoC win to complete her GP set...
...okay and maybe also a world title...
 

Dmitryfromsiberia

On the Ice
Joined
May 13, 2018
... all I want is a CoC win to complete her GP set...
...okay and maybe also a world title...
This is quite real, Zhenya has a consistently high level of performances. Much will depend on in what form in the new season will Alina. And that can show those who moved from juniors, for example Kihira.
 

squall1111

Match Penalty
Joined
May 7, 2018
... all I want is a CoC win to complete her GP set...
...okay and maybe also a world title...
She has never gone to CoC before right? Maybe she will go then. But if CoC invites Alina Z and she decides to go because it is close to Russia then I hope Zhenya goes somewhere else. Personally I want Zhenya at SC and SA, because they are closer to TCC and also because NHK and RoC have real home host competitiors like Japanese girls and Alina Z.
 

yoloaxel

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Hmmm idk I think I’d prefer them to have a major battle at GPF :) I personally think Alina will get CoR and IdF and Zhenya SA and NHK, with the two North America events being sort of interchangeable
 

Ziotic

Medalist
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
I doubt that very much. SC and NHK seem more likely to me.

There’s no way she will be at SC, they would never invite her with the potential to beat Keatlyn. And I’m sure SA will want to clear a path for a Bradie win.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
I don't think Rusfed will put their two best skaters against each other before the GPF

well technically i think it does not depend entirely from rusfed, and based on their results last season, there is no guarantee they cannot end up at same GP.
I mean, it can happen despite rusfed not happy with it.
 
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