2018-19 Russian Ice Dance

coldblueeyes · Jul 1, 2018

Mattieu said:
I don't know what that means, can you elaborate?

People commented in here about rumors of Romain and MFD going their separate ways a while ago, but we all know how much we can trust rumors. However, it's not an unexpected thing to happen, and it wouldn't be the first time a group/duo of coaches in ID end a powerful partnership.

gmyers · Jul 2, 2018

coldblueeyes said:
People commented in here about rumors of Romain and MFD going their separate ways a while ago, but we all know how much we can trust rumors. However, it's not an unexpected thing to happen, and it wouldn't be the first time a group/duo of coaches in ID end a powerful partnership.

I totally understand!!! Dubreuil is the most powerful person in ice dance. Maybe in the history of ice dance. So anyone who works with her could potentially sell their services. Six or 7 figures a year! So people maybe lured away and then damage the incredibly powerful dubreuil empire.

believed · Jul 2, 2018

gmyers said:
I totally understand!!! Dubreuil is the most powerful person in ice dance. Maybe in the history of ice dance. So anyone who works with her could potentially sell their services. Six or 7 figures a year! So people maybe lured away and then damage the incredibly powerful dubreuil empire.

Most powerful... EVER?

gmyers · Jul 2, 2018

believed said:
Most powerful... EVER?

Look at her teams going into 2018-2019! She can win all gp events sweep euro podium and gpf podium and sweep world podium after winning gpf euros Olympics and worlds the 2017-2018 season! She will likely have national champs of us France Canada and more!

bramweld · Jul 2, 2018

Well, the Drozd/Staviskaya try-out was a bust, it would seem. Who else is there to try out with? Lena, Anastasia S., Eva Kuts? This offseason is a bust for Drozd, better to just take his time and use this season to learn how to skate with a new partner, whomever that turns out to be.

gmyers · Jul 3, 2018

bramweld said:
Well, the Drozd/Staviskaya try-out was a bust, it would seem. Who else is there to try out with? Lena, Anastasia S., Eva Kuts? This offseason is a bust for Drozd, better to just take his time and use this season to learn how to skate with a new partner, whomever that turns out to be.

Not sure breaking up with loboda and moving to staviskaya made much sense anyway! At best it’s lateral!

coldblueeyes · Jul 3, 2018

He might as well go after Eteri's daughter. But then, even Annabelle Morozov should be considered at this point.

bramweld · Jul 3, 2018

How do you leave your creditable partner without first knowing who will be your next partner? It's like how do you leave a job without first securing another one? Was the situation so intolerable? Something just doesn't add up, or probably he wanted to desperately give Alla a chance but it just didn't work out. Maybe also they were good friends and this was very difficult for him?

OTOH, with all the vacations he has taken he had so many opportunities to arrange for discrete tryouts with a number of persons before now. His issues with Loboda are nothing new and their difference in abilities just became more pronounced each year. If his mother is acting as his manager, he needs to get new representation and fast.

It's unfortunate though because he is a very talented ice dancer. Oh well, time will tell.

bramweld · Jul 3, 2018

gmyers said:
Not sure breaking up with loboda and moving to staviskaya made much sense anyway! At best it’s lateral!

Whatevs, I tell you, whatevs. How could anyone think that they could work together? No offence to her fans but the abilities of Drozd and Staviskaya are as dissimilar as night and day. :rolleye:

Garry12 · Jul 3, 2018

bramweld said:
Well, the Drozd/Staviskaya try-out was a bust, it would seem. Who else is there to try out with? Lena, Anastasia S., Eva Kuts? This offseason is a bust for Drozd, better to just take his time and use this season to learn how to skate with a new partner, whomever that turns out to be.

He should be with Abachkina. Figure out the differences with Federations and skate together.

coldblueeyes · Jul 3, 2018

People thought Elena and Anton were going to work out, so I think it's highly hypocritical to shame other people who thought they were going to get their chance. I was very skeptical when Popova/Mozgov started skating, and their recent interview only point to how they are poised to fail one way or the other, yet they thrive. There's always a chance things are going to work out. I was always also skeptical about Tiffany and John, yet they were the best russian team in the technical side in Milan.

Things are not as black and white as we would like them to be, just because something is bad right now it doesn't mean it will be forever. In the same way, something that might be incredible at the moment also run the risk of failure.

bramweld · Jul 3, 2018

coldblueeyes said:
People thought Elena and Anton were going to work out, so I think it's highly hypocritical to shame other people who thought they were going to get their chance. I was very skeptical when Popova/Mozgov started skating, and their recent interview only point to how they are poised to fail one way or the other, yet they thrive. There's always a chance things are going to work out. I was always also skeptical about Tiffany and John, yet they were the best russian team in the technical side in Milan.

Things are not as black and white as we would like them to be, just because something is bad right now it doesn't mean it will be forever. In the same way, something that might be incredible at the moment also run the risk of failure.

Respectfully I need to disagree, if you looked at Shibnev's performance with Vasilisa you would have thought there was a smidge of a chance. Looking at Staviskaya and Bagin all you can do is shake your head.

As much as I find Morozov morally reprehensible he is a world class coach. He is Russia's best ice dance coach, he knows how to work COP and his students almost always acquire exceptional skating skills, all the others simply pale in comparison. Kustarova is completely out of her depth, that may have been their biggest challenge in addition to their incompatible skills.

coldblueeyes · Jul 3, 2018

bramweld said:
Respectfully I need to disagree, if you looked at Shibnev's performance with Vasilisa you would have thought there was a smidge of a chance. Looking at Staviskaya and Bagin all you can do is shake your head.

The thing is, we need to stop with this idea that skating skills should come first and foremost in a partnership - and skaters themselves should probably pay attention to this. I'm won't pretend I know all that goes through a skater's head when they want to end a partnership and the why, but we saw SO many of them not going further in any way because things just don't work out. I don't care if Shibnev had more of a smidge of a chance than Stavitskaya, the fact is that it didn't work out. In the same way Nikita and Elena didn't work out, and now Pavel and Alla.

I commented before, but I was horrified with some of the things I read on the interview with Popova/Mozgov, because it almost felt like they wanted the partnership to go south. I wonder how many other skaters have this mentality too, it's either do or die, it seems like there's no stepping stones to make their way to the top. I won't fault them for wanting better coaches, not even for wanting more attention, more care to hone their skills and improve, but sometimes I don't know how they expect to actually reach a higher place without putting the effort.

bramweld · Jul 3, 2018

coldblueeyes said:
The thing is, we need to stop with this idea that skating skills should come first and foremost in a partnership - and skaters themselves should probably pay attention to this. I'm won't pretend I know all that goes through a skater's head when they want to end a partnership and the why, but we saw SO many of them not going further in any way because things just don't work out. I don't care if Shibnev had more of a smidge of a chance than Stavitskaya, the fact is that it didn't work out. In the same way Nikita and Elena didn't work out, and now Pavel and Alla.

I commented before, but I was horrified with some of the things I read on the interview with Popova/Mozgov, because it almost felt like they wanted the partnership to go south. I wonder how many other skaters have this mentality too, it's either do or die, it seems like there's no stepping stones to make their way to the top. I won't fault them for wanting better coaches, not even for wanting more attention, more care to hone their skills and improve, but sometimes I don't know how they expect to actually reach a higher place without putting the effort.

This unfortunately comes as a direct result of their leadership. Cest la vie.

gmyers · Jul 3, 2018

coldblueeyes said:
The thing is, we need to stop with this idea that skating skills should come first and foremost in a partnership - and skaters themselves should probably pay attention to this. I'm won't pretend I know all that goes through a skater's head when they want to end a partnership and the why, but we saw SO many of them not going further in any way because things just don't work out. I don't care if Shibnev had more of a smidge of a chance than Stavitskaya, the fact is that it didn't work out. In the same way Nikita and Elena didn't work out, and now Pavel and Alla.

I commented before, but I was horrified with some of the things I read on the interview with Popova/Mozgov, because it almost felt like they wanted the partnership to go south. I wonder how many other skaters have this mentality too, it's either do or die, it seems like there's no stepping stones to make their way to the top. I won't fault them for wanting better coaches, not even for wanting more attention, more care to hone their skills and improve, but sometimes I don't know how they expect to actually reach a higher place without putting the effort.

What if your goal is to be world or Olympic champion? Ijs ice dance is based on skating skills! You need level 4 step sequences or level 3 with all +3 goe at WORST! If you are with a bobrova or Stepanova or loboda that’s totally impossible so changing partners would be absolutely mandatory!! That and being coached by dubreuil right now.

coldblueeyes · Jul 4, 2018

gmyers said:
What if your goal is to be world or Olympic champion? Ijs ice dance is based on skating skills! You need level 4 step sequences or level 3 with all +3 goe at WORST! If you are with a bobrova or Stepanova or loboda that’s totally impossible so changing partners would be absolutely mandatory!! That and being coached by dubreuil right now.

Your kind of comment is exactly why the russian ID is where it is right now. Changing the players won't change the game.

Bluediamonds09 · Jul 4, 2018

Any news about Katsalapov and Sinitsina?? I have a soft spot for them.

So it’s assumed that Stepanova and Bukin will be the top Russian team this year?

Ice Dance · Jul 4, 2018

Bluediamonds09 said:
Any news about Katsalapov and Sinitsina?? I have a soft spot for them.

They have a humdinger of a set of GP assignments this year. Skate Canada and Internationaux de France. Based on last season's GP scores and what S&K are capable of, they should be able to make the GPF. But . . . it's gonna be tough. They go up against Gilles & Poirier twice, and the first one is in Canada. Will be almost impossible to finish top two there. The second event, though, is in France. It is the only GP event this season with 4 teams that have previously medaled on the GP. Likely to come down to a battle for second between Gilles & Poirier, Sinitsina & Katsalapov, and Hawayek & Baker. If S&K want to make the final, they will probably need to be able to turn the tables on G&P there (and hold off Hawayek & Baker). Could happen. S&K defeated both of those teams head-to-head at SA this past season.

Even so, it's possible a 2nd & 3rd place won't get you in. Probably gonna take a high score. (Zagorsky & Guerreiro have an easier draw, and even if S&K defeat G&P in France, it may not be enough to be able to best high home Canadian scores from SC. Plus if Z&G don't get the job done, Guignard & Fabbri could be in the hunt with a 2nd & 3rd themselves). On the plus side for S&K, they go up against Hawayek & Baker and Gilles & Poirier head to head . . . so if they want to make things tough for those teams, S&K have the power to do so.

Even if S&K royally muck up or get slammed score-wise at SC, they could still make things tough on those other two teams in France.

All that, however, is just--of course--speculation based upon what we have seen happen in the past. Lots of less established teams and lots of openings this GP season. Makes for a lot of opportunity for someone to surprise. And if a top team or two pull out because they aren't ready yet, teams could move up & then you reshuffle the predictions for the whole game.

gmyers · Jul 4, 2018

coldblueeyes said:
Your kind of comment is exactly why the russian ID is where it is right now. Changing the players won't change the game.

But look at what happened! Bobrova and soloviev were overtaken by chock and Bates and hubbell and Donahue.

Bluediamonds09 said:
So it’s assumed that Stepanova and Bukin will be the top Russian team this year?

It’s not like Zahorski and Guerrero weren’t at the same level of s/b at worlds. With Stepanova lack of skating skills destroying that teams potential the only option is for Russian fed to go with z/g as national champions. Z/g only 4 points behind s/b at worlds. Then maybe work on getting Bukin a new partner.

Had to point out that Stepanova has been under incredible scrutiny because s/b were the heirs to b/s and if z/g become actual heirs of b/s that means tons of scrutiny on them! So now everyone says Stepanova has no skating ability but what will they say of Zahorski or Guerrero!

Artemisa · Jul 4, 2018

I think russian federation needs to do a reset ... creating new pairs ... strong couples ( even if they don't like each other)... and then stuck with then ... no more changes ... for example Bukin and Elena Ilinykh

I am hoping that in next years the juniors become seniores and things change

2018-19 Russian Ice Dance

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