Women and the Quad
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2014
I would not presume to speak for all of Alina's fans on this board, but for myself, I don't see it as denial so much as an attempt at positivity to counter the relentless negativity directed at Alina by some posters in some threads. We're not stupid. We see the tape on her knees. We see how much she has grown. We've read the interview from Eteri where she stated how hard Alina had to work to get her jumps together this season since she lost her muscle memory due to the growth spurt. We know about the Osgood Schlatter problem. We've also heard about the injuries previously mentioned. We've watched her make mistakes.
Things are 'off'. Some of them will resolve with time, but then maybe next season other things will be 'off'. Every skater is dealing with something. Every single skater makes mistakes. They all have to break in new boots. Alina has dealt with the Osgood Schlatter for most of her skating life. Hopefully, she'll outgrow it sooner rather than later. She is dealing with the growth spurt. Maybe next season she won't grow as much and will have better muscle memory. The tape is for support. Maybe next season she won't need it.
As for her injuries, I'm sure she is dealing with injuries and training through the pain. This is the life of an elite athlete. So many athletes compete with injuries. Yuzu competing on his ankle just because he wanted to perform his program in Russia. They all do it. And their coaches let them. (I'm still not over Brian letting Yuzu compete after receiving a head injury.) Injuries heal. Maybe Alina's injuries have healed. Maybe they are healing. Maybe they will heal in the off season.
This never ending concern trolling is hypocritical. There is one set of standards for Alina and another set for every other skater.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
The thing is, I might be very sceptical about her team‘s choices but I‘m not happy when she fails. Because while I dislike Eteri, I like Alina and I would never want to see her fail just to scream: “I told you so! Daniil bad choreographer, Eteri bad coach, bad everything!“ That‘s a young girl we‘re talking about here. I see that she‘s struggling and yes, I‘m worried and don’t understand some of the decisions being made. But I still hope that everything will work out for the best, even if I fear that it won‘t.
And about the untouchable thing... no one is untouchable but if Rika wasn’t doing as well as she is now, would anyone be able to beat a remotely clean Alina? I doubt it. She was second at the GPF, where the strongest skaters of the season compete. So she is still fighting for the top spots despite her struggles. I find that pretty admirable!
Do I dislike some of the choreography from her team? Yes. Do I think her programs this year are not even half as good as the ones last year? Also yes. Would I call them tragic? No. It‘s not that bad.
And honestly, yes, I am confused about the whole situation and I don‘t understand her quad training now, other than a shoutout to the people calling she‘s done and saying: “Nope.“ I heavily disagree with many of Eteri‘s coaching methods and I don‘t know what‘s going on with Alina but please don‘t speak for me as if I was one of those who are gloating about Alina having troubles. Because I‘m not and I refuse to be included in this. I worry and I disagree with some of Alina‘s team decisions but I am not some of the fans that you think “opened their eyes“ and now start to hate on her.
And somehow those injuries did not alarm anybody? How's that possible if people are so alarmed with any new tape on Alina's leg?
To be more serious. Yes, injuries belong to this sport and many skaters are injured many times, Eteri's team is no exclusion, but it should be applied in both ways, they are injured sometimes but they are not the only ones, so those concerns so much targeted at them are, to put it mildly, strange.
And I would also say that noone is obliged to win constantly to call his career succesful, that was in fact meaning of my comment. But again, by some double standart, when Alina gets only silver, there are immediately tons of advisors about coach changing, when with other skaters it is called succesful career.
And, to end this, it is again funny that the very same people who are clapping Zhenya when she replies to someone not to give advices (which was very good answer) to her are giving advices to other skaters. I openly say that it is pure trolling and hypocrisy, not interest about those skaters.
Is there no "national jealousy"?
I think there is, very strong. And very one-sided.
lmao i find that you're really good at misunderstanding how other people feel. literally no one has any delusions about alina being in olympic shape right now. alina, her coaches, and her fans all know that she's going through some tough times. all of your posts revolve around how people are blind to alina "failing", "evil" eteri, etc but literally no one is. before rika starting getting consistent with the 3A alina was all but untouchable and now that the season's gone on most people have adjusted their views accordingly, it seems like you're the only one who's stuck in the past, bringing up things that have been irrelevant for months.
all of my opinions are based on the same interviews/practice videos that you use to argue your opinions.
i think that they're trying their best to work through hard times. you're free to interpret things how you see fit. but it's not that i don't see what you're pointing out, i see those things and i have a different opinion about them.
at this point idk who you're even picking a fight with since nothing you complain about actually happens, feels like you're being purposely obtuse to troll members of this forum lol
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
Whada...you neglected to mention that in the 4 years you highlighted, Kaetlyn missed almost 2 years participating in international events due to injuries. Of the remaining, she managed 2 gold in Senior B's in Nebelhorn (besting a future Olympic Gold medalist in the process) won a GP Gold 2012 and an OGT Gold in 2014. Not bad for someone with 0 international success as you state. I can only imagine what could have been achieved, if healthy.
My point is, why deny an athlete their accomplishments, just to fit a false narrative? The rest of your post re Alina is muted, when the facts are misstated.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2014
This brings up an interesting question. Given that Kaetlyn missed two years of international events due to injuries, and arguably never got to achieve everything she could have if she had remained healthy, was her coach blamed? Was it suggested that she leave her coach? Would another coach have somehow avoided all of these injuries that cost her so many opportunities to shine? Was anyone ever concerned that something was 'off' during this two year period?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think what posters are trying to say is this. When Kaetlyn was injured, no one jumped all over her coach about callous training techniques, etc. Why all the outrage about the possibility that Eteri Tuberidze's quadlings might not all have illustrious senior careers?
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
Thanks Mathman, as the poster lost me after misstating facts. As I read through others, it looks like I was not alone.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
As mentioned before, Eteri’s track record of leading a senior lady through a whole quad is 0. Her students have one or two seasons of glory, struggles, then switches coaches and these coaches try to help them rehabilitate. Some of them have since retired with lasting problems. For someone that is relatively new to the coaching scene as some keep mentioning, Eteri has caused proportionally many more students problems than say Mishin, Huth, or Orser who have been on the scene longer and have led some students through multiple quads of success.
You are obviously misstating some facts.
To start with, there was literally no time for Eteri to lead a senior through a whole quad. Eteri started as a base coach. She had no star students, she worked with kids. Most of those students never made it to any relevant competiton. Not because Eteri, but because most kids dont make it everywhere. Eteri very rarely takes grown up students, you can count exceptions on fingers. Using same logic, we can say that Orser never managed to train a single student from juniors and then lead this student through a successful quad.
Then, you also for some reason forget to mention that most of the succesfull juniors simply do not make it to senior, or stuggle and leave, or never win anything on senior level. When you people bash Eteri for her students not having long careers, you forget that ONE IN FIVE jgp medalists wins ANY medals on senior level (and i am talking worldwide, not just russia and not just Eteri). We are not even talking about a quad or whatever.
You forget to mention that many skaters have one or two seasons of glory, struggle and then switch coaches, and many skaters have since retired with lasting problems. What happened to Wakaba, for instance? What happened to Marin Honda? Where is Gracie Gold? Daleman had literally one good season and then where is she? And Maria Sotskova? Gubanova? Anna Pogorilaya? Karen Chen? Lena Radionova? Adelina Sotnikova? Rika Hongo, who had 2 decent season and then just struggles since then? Polina Edmunds? Alaine Chartrand?
The main Eteri's fault is that her juniors are brilliant, which means they are always in spotlight. So Eteri gets bashed for something that happens to all other coaches too.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
And? Is this something to get angry about?
I think that many coaches wouldn't care to have that 0 if they can train skaters from novice level to senior level and lead them to olympic and worlds titles (and many other titles), like Lipnitskaia, Medvedeva and zagitova. And that by training full seniors in ladies for only 5 seasons.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
This thread is for discussing which skaters are attempting or landing which quads. Discussion about whether or not it's a good idea to jump quads or opinions on coaches can be done in other threads.
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?78244-Quads-Why-or-why-not -For discussing the pros and cons of the quad jump
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?75988&p=2198495#post2198495 -For discussing ladies skating in general
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?78244-Quads-Why-or-why-not -For discussing the pros and cons of the quad jump
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?75988&p=2198495#post2198495 -For discussing ladies skating in general
Thank to Mathman for more clarifying, my point wasn't at all to strip any success from Osmond (so much about what you have called "misstating facts"), my point was that when some of Eteri's students just miss the gold or have some injury, many people start to blame her or start to speak about her skater's career as unsuccesful. You consider Osmond's career before 2016-2017 season successful, which is good and what I'm saying is not incompatible with that. What I'm saying is that if people consider her seasons between 2013-2016 successful even when she suffered from injuries, why the same people consider e. g. Alina's contemporary season as unsuccesful. Also why any supposed, unconfirmed injury of Alina (any new tape on her leg) is nearly a crime commited by her team, while with any other (esp. non-russian) skater it is considered normal and natural part of the sport. Also, when Nebelhorn Trophy was mentioned, again, with Kaetlyn her two golden medals are success for those people, whether when Alina has gold from Nebelhorn, it is only "unimportant smaller competition" in their narrative.
As a precaution against any accusation, I repeat I don't deny any success of e. g. Kaetlyn or any other skater who was facing health issues and other difficulties, I also don't say that you have to win everything to be called successful, that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. I'm just comparing how completely different attitude some people have when they speak about Eteri's students and when they speak about others.
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- Aug 11, 2018
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Back to the quads. It would be great if Zagitova is the first lady to land a quad flip next season
Yes, that would be great. However, this place is already reserved, I think. The question is who from 2A will be the first.
Although I'm not sure it's wise for Alina to work at a quad now (she has room for improvement in other areas of her skating), I don't see how some tape is an indication or an evidence for a new injury. Some athletes are taped all the time, they simply like to wear it. And it can help manage Schlatter's disease.
Even I (!) wear some tape from time to time when I go for a run. My physio showed me how to use it, I have some muscle imbalances and the tape seems to help to avoid pain. I'm not sure, I think it does, but I don't like the feeling wearing it.
Even I (!) wear some tape from time to time when I go for a run. My physio showed me how to use it, I have some muscle imbalances and the tape seems to help to avoid pain. I'm not sure, I think it does, but I don't like the feeling wearing it.
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