Ice Dance OGM Contenders 2018

[machin]

Oh wow, you know them so well! Do you know them personally, have you talked to them? Or have you maybe listened to their IceTalk interview where Gaby says likes watching some of the older ice dance stuff? No? Okay.

They said it themselves dear. They did not watch past champions. Just the ones from their generation. They actually looked up at Shibs and took them as example since they came last at their first jgp event which the us team won. TD competed 40 years ago, only skating fans remember them, mainly because they were not Russians and still won.

 

[Rossig]

They said it themselves dear. They did not watch past champions. Just the ones from their generation. They actually looked up at Shibs and took them as example since they came last at their first jgp event which the us team won. TD competed 40 years ago, only skating fans remember them, mainly because they were not Russians and still won.

Actually T&D belong to those few skaters who are known outside skating world, at least among people 40+ and not just in the UK, but in many other countries. Lots of people still remember Bolero.
It can't be said about many other skaters, even those who compete today, maybe except for Japan.

When it comes to P&C I really don't like the imagine they try to create of the skaters who know nothing about the history of ice skating and who haven't heard about past champions. It would be such a shame if indeed it was true. If the skaters don't respect the history of their discipline, then who will?

 

[icetigger]

Oh wow, you know them so well! Do you know them personally, have you talked to them? Or have you maybe listened to their IceTalk interview where Gaby says likes watching some of the older ice dance stuff? No? Okay.

There is evidence out there that they don't watch older stuff (Marie-France quote; quotes from them that they want to skate to no music, which Torvill and Dean already did, and of which they seemed to be unaware).

However, those transitions in to the choreo lift and spin at this years Worlds, which were beautifully executed, were very T and D post competitive career show programme........

I think the jury is out either way.........

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I think people are dreaming if they don't think P/C will continue in some capacity even if they win gold in 2018. They are super young and have a lot to explore even in "their style", and I have a feeling they aren't close to peaking yet.

 

[Anyasnake]

I think people are dreaming if they don't think P/C will continue in some capacity even if they win gold in 2018. They are super young and have a lot to explore even in "their style", and I have a feeling they aren't close to peaking yet.

I agree. V/M won in 2010 yet when you compare Malher who was a gorgeous program and the seasons which was my least favourite, TECHNICALLY speaking, they got better. They skated more like adults.
I mean look how they skate now, it's awesome.

 

[MelDee]

They said it themselves dear. They did not watch past champions. Just the ones from their generation. They actually looked up at Shibs and took them as example since they came last at their first jgp event which the us team won. TD competed 40 years ago, only skating fans remember them, mainly because they were not Russians and still won.

Could you please link me to the interview where they themselves said it? They’ve met Christopher Dean before, so I doubt they have no idea who T/D are.

There is evidence out there that they don't watch older stuff (Marie-France quote; quotes from them that they want to skate to no music, which Torvill and Dean already did, and of which they seemed to be unaware).

I know which Marie-France interview you’re referring to. In the IceTalk interview I mentioned, Nick McCarvel asked them which dance teams they looked up to and Gaby answered that Scott and Tessa are the team she looked up to growing up, but says that she’s lately been watching the older ice dance stuff. In an interview from April, Guillaume talked about the Duchesnays, but it was in French, so I have no clue what he said. My point is, there in fact is evidence they’re not as oblivious to ice dance history as some people make them out to be.

 

[Ender]

I think people are dreaming if they don't think P/C will continue in some capacity even if they win gold in 2018. They are super young and have a lot to explore even in "their style", and I have a feeling they aren't close to peaking yet.

P/C is great. I just wonder if they will ever break through their current style.

 

[machin]

Actually T&D belong to those few skaters who are known outside skating world, at least among people 40+ and not just in the UK, but in many other countries. Lots of people still remember Bolero.
It can't be said about many other skaters, even those who compete today, maybe except for Japan.

When it comes to P&C I really don't like the imagine they try to create of the skaters who know nothing about the history of ice skating and who haven't heard about past champions. It would be such a shame if indeed it was true. If the skaters don't respect the history of their discipline, then who will?

I'll look for the interview where she said she didn't care at all for what other did before. It was one or two years ago. She said her mother would watch though.

And don't overestimate TD reputation. At the time they won, yes maybe, it was true. Not anymore. I have several UK friends from the generation born when TD won and none of them knew who TD are. None. I always ask also on the apps when talking to new people (ok, all men) and same results. I wasn't surprised ukrainians don't know who Bauil is but at first I was surprised it was the same for TD then got used to. Maybe the older generation remembers better but even then, it's not like they have Madonna or even Susan Boyle status. Life goes on. People outside hardcore fan don't give a sh*t to 84 Olympics gold medalist even though they had a long pro career.

 

[machin]

Could you please link me to the interview where they themselves said it? They’ve met Christopher Dean before, so I doubt they have no idea who T/D are.

There's a difference though between having met people and watched what they did. My bad.

 

[icetigger]

I'll look for the interview where she said she didn't care at all for what other did before. It was one or two years ago. She said her mother would watch though.

And don't overestimate TD reputation. At the time they won, yes maybe, it was true. Not anymore. I have several UK friends from the generation born when TD won and none of them knew who TD are. None. I always ask also on the apps when talking to new people (ok, all men) and same results. I wasn't surprised ukrainians don't know who Bauil is but at first I was surprised it was the same for TD then got used to. Maybe the older generation remembers better but even then, it's not like they have Madonna or even Susan Boyle status. Life goes on. People outside hardcore fan don't give a sh*t to 84 Olympics gold medalist even though they had a long pro career.

Torvill and Dean fronted a saturday or Sunday night television show for eight years between 2006 to 2014 which is due to come back in 2017 (an ice version of Dancing with the Stars)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_on_Ice
The viewing figures were up to 11.68 million people, which is over one sixth of the total population of the United Kingdom, and would have likely been in the top ten viewing figures for that year.

They were interviewed by Piers Morgan in 2013 in an hour long show that ran on Saturday or Sunday night in primetime viewing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Morgan's_Life_Stories

They have also made numerous other appearances on numerous television shows-

Here for example is Christopher Dean's IMDB page.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0212734/

I would guess that he made approximately 200 television appearances on national television in the last 10 years- the majority in primetime.

In 2009 a television programme celebrating 25 years since Bolero was broadcast in a primetime spot on the BBC.

Here is a telegraph newspaper article rating Bolero and the UK's 16th greatest sporting moment

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...of-the-greatest-moments-in-British-sport.html

And here is poll of 2,000 people commissioned in 2016 where people were asked to give the greatest sporting moment.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...of-all-time-London-Olympics-England-World-Cup

Bolero came third. That's one place below the one time England won the World Cup and three places above the first time any man ran a mile under one minute.

I hope this clarifies how well known Torvill and Dean are in the Uk.

 

[Rossig]

My point is, there in fact is evidence they’re not as oblivious to ice dance history as some people make them out to be.

I hope you are right they are not so oblivious. But that's the image they have, which results from some interviews they have given. The interview with Marie France where she said they hadn't heard about Gordeeva and Gringov, one of the greatest pairs skaters ever, didn't help.

 

[Rossig]

Maybe the older generation remembers better but even then, it's not like they have Madonna or even Susan Boyle status. Life goes on. People outside hardcore fan don't give a sh*t to 84 Olympics gold medalist even though they had a long pro career.

I don't see the point comparing athletes to pop stars. Hardly any athlete, maybe except for a few ones representing the most popular disciplnes of sport, has a chance to gain popularity equal to the popularity of the most famous pop stars or Hollywood actors.

But actually, in many countries people outside figure skating world have heard about T&D, but they have never heard about 2010 or 2014 Olympic ice dance champions. And icetigger has already given you the reply about the UK.

 

[NoNameFace]

I once wrote a post there, but it somehow deleted itself before publication, so this is a second attempt. It will be more about how 'layered', factored the discipline is, looking at Olympic season ahead of us and my views on some of topics touched there already, as I am nothing of making statements on predictions without seeing Olympic season material presented by all teams. 'Coulda, woulda, shoulda' approach along with projecting personal sentiments out there like God's truth that can't be argued with are really not my thing – and to be honest, I don't believe that are the things those top teams are focusing on either. I think that the correct, healthy mindset, focused on development and achieving, is about experiencing loses, learning from mistakes, but putting it all in a future perspective, taking into consideration challenges, real possibilities and the state where you are. So 'sorry not sorry' about another 'word vomit'-like post, not exactly on main topic.

Firstly, I do think that last Worlds have shown us how tight and competitive the top of Ice Dance is. For me, it shown also how different those teams are, which is great. The certain thing for me is that every misstep, lost level or missed pattern key point will be important with such close points-wise race we saw in Helsinki, so iron focus during execution will be very important, no matter how long you are competing at senior level, how many medals you have and under which coach you are (maybe in contrary to some ppl's beliefs). The second thing I gathered from Helsinki, seeing all those top teams competing, is how important is your mindset over the pressure experienced. The discipine has two segments which require same high level of focus, attention and quality – this is the only way to secure best possible execution and possible result by themselves, not looking on others.

Next, I think that programs are just one of factors to be considered in talk over Olympic medal chances, they are kind of 'departure point' for teams, after which goes: exeution, building up/developing programs thorough the season, reception from judges, results in back-to-back competition with other teams and so on. We can also talk about how important is the process before that 'departure point' of having programs ready: it takes team's personality, preferences, abilities, qualities, way of movement, way of expressing themselves, level of being comfortable with certain styles/conventions/musical styles and so on. It all consists on the 'products' programs are, and after this period of their 'production', there is a time to reveal them and try to sell. I also think that we often do not realize that this 'production' process of programs requires from teams a lot of balance and compromising abilities over what they would like to do (in a 'clean form') vs what is required by Ice Dance rules in terms of tempo, movement and timing. We tend to criticize on ready material, its music, character, expression etc., but we often do not know if that was the original, 'clean' idea of the team, or this is a ID-ready translation of that idea. In general, I adapted an approach towards programs that essentially consists of being neutral about musical choices until I see the final effect on ice and not making assumptions based only on those choices nor on past teams' dances.

Of course, we can – and have a right to – speculate over potential choices, directions teams will go, style they are likely to adapt, but the concept of already giving medals and stating teams' chances in a very bold, decisive way based only on how successfully they did in SD/FD segments in the past or on what style they did (in terms of being repetitive) is very confusing and neglectful in regards to those teams picked up in such analysis. Like I said above, there is so much 'before' and 'after' each program of every team, but looking at discussion here, it seems like some people see teams through one factor or particular filter, which they consider as critical in terms of those teams' Olympic chances, which is kind of absurd for me. Another thing that baffles me a little is seeing and estimating teams' chances using one, same logic or criteria for all – myself, I think that the best thing in those top Ice Dance teams is the variety and being multi-dimensional. They all have their better and worse features/abilities/performances/moments, but their overall quality, experience and results worked and achieved over the years are making them a top team due to their best, not because of their worst.

Aside of the general idea of the thread, I see a particular way of narrative there, too – I am under impression that some people here try to only expose supposed flaws or lacks of particular teams, not to voice teams' chances to medal at Olympics (maybe it is a twisted way to enhance/build up your fave team's chances, even just for yourself? LOL). As I pointed at the beginning, I'm just not suited for evaluating each team in terms of chances for an Olympic medal, however – for me, talking about chances is about seeing both strong and weak sides. Maybe that's the logic of some posters to expose only this 'weaker' side of the team, based often on personal opinion or preference, but for me this is a statement why certain team has NO CHANCES for Olympic medal. I'd rather apply more positive logic myself and see strong points of each team – after all, those top teams are on the 'top' for a reason, hence a bit of laugh from me about those comments on Bobrova's 'unacceptable posture' which shoud ban her and Soloviev from competition. Well, it is not a secret that Ekaterina's posture is not a model one, or Anna Cappellini's egdes depth is not the best one out there, examples can be multiplied, but the thing is that Ice Dance is a discipline consisting of various elements, factors and it's probably impossible to have them all at the best level. Like singles skating is not only about quads, the Ice Dance is not only about posture or edges. And thank God that there is no such thing like depending on a single factor you have or not in Olympic or other competitive Ice Dance race. I wish that the narrative there would be more positive and focused on teams' strenghts – those you support more or less – instead of making another episode of weak/flaw/lack galore (in addition, often influenced by personal conviction/opinion on a team in general).

Addressing one of posts here – I really do not think that having 'killer SD/FD' or 'finding right SD/FD' for Tessa/Scott and Gabriella/Guillaume should be assumed automatically in regards to Olympic season, without seeing actual programs. I think that last season's material of both teams was judged as 'killer' or 'less right' based on execution of particular performances/scores/way SD or FD built thorough the season and based on personal preferece/opinion. There's never a guarantee that SD/FD will be a 'killer' one, even from the best team – the program itself as a concept and a sequence of moves to the music does not compete and executes itself. What I wish for Tessa/Scott, Gabriella/Guillaume and other Ice Dance teams is to stay healthy, motivated and focused on being themselves, staying themselves no matter what convention, rhythm or style you have to adapt or choose by yourself; I think that it is a great value to have this confidence aura about the team: about their material, about performing it, about their connection, their relationship, about competing in a discipline full of rules and restrictions, but still have some kind of identity/individuality about what they do. And for me all those 'top' teams have these qualities mentioned developed, just on different levels in particular areas. Personally, I'd like to mention Shibutanis, Gilles/Poirier and Hubbell/Donohue in terms of developing some kind of personal signature as a team recently – they all went through quite a journey to find that balance between conforming to the rules and have their own way to do so. All 3 teams really impressed me from past 2 seasons ad I'm anticipating great things from them.

Finishing, I think that the certain thing is that there will be always a discrepancy between what teams do vs what we wish them to do. Saying that, I think that probably the best is to just wait in positive anticipation for what the season – and those top teams – will bring on the table, not making too much of assumptions beforehand, especially those personally-inflicted. I am not a 'saint' myself, I'm liking some of ID teams more or less, but I always want to stay open-minded before each season and be ready for being surprised if not by a program itself, then maybe even by a single performance which could happen at Olympics.

 

[skylark]

They said it themselves dear. They did not watch past champions. Just the ones from their generation. They actually looked up at Shibs and took them as example since they came last at their first jgp event which the us team won. TD competed 40 years ago, only skating fans remember them, mainly because they were not Russians and still won.

That isn't true at all. Torville and Dean created something completely new with Bolero, and their brilliant FD is remembered by all sorts of people who don't follow ID and didn't know about the history of it. I was one of those at the time.

If the skaters don't respect the history of their discipline, then who will?

It doesn't mean lack of respect for the history of their discipline. It's called Running One's Own Race.

Many people in creative endeavors find that they can't pay too much attention to what others in their field are doing, or have done. Gabrielle and Guillaume are a team who don't skate like anyone else, past or present. They've created their own style; that's part of their magic.

 

[skylark]

e, i think of P and C's "style" in the free skate as more literary; and a literary style is commonly in my experience defined as a genre of writing that cannot be identified as a genre- i.e. not suspense, or horror or romance etc. It's transcendent; and it is what people who artists and who want to be artists strive and work hard to achieve. The notion that all styles are equivalent is to such people a redundant one. Some styles are simply better than others.

:agree: Well said. As I've said before, I (and many others) feel that I've experienced a work of art when they've skated their last three free skates at Worlds. And every time I re-watch them. It's like being lost inside the world of a great painting, even though you know you're standing in front of it.

 

[lauravvv]

I once wrote a post there, but it somehow deleted itself before publication, so this is a second attempt. It will be more about how 'layered', factored the discipline is, looking at Olympic season ahead of us and my views on some of topics touched there already, as I am nothing of making statements on predictions without seeing Olympic season material presented by all teams. 'Coulda, woulda, shoulda' approach along with projecting personal sentiments out there like God's truth that can't be argued with are really not my thing – and to be honest, I don't believe that are the things those top teams are focusing on either. I think that the correct, healthy mindset, focused on development and achieving, is about experiencing loses, learning from mistakes, but putting it all in a future perspective, taking into consideration challenges, real possibilities and the state where you are. So 'sorry not sorry' about another 'word vomit'-like post, not exactly on main topic.

Firstly, I do think that last Worlds have shown us how tight and competitive the top of Ice Dance is. For me, it shown also how different those teams are, which is great. The certain thing for me is that every misstep, lost level or missed pattern key point will be important with such close points-wise race we saw in Helsinki, so iron focus during execution will be very important, no matter how long you are competing at senior level, how many medals you have and under which coach you are (maybe in contrary to some ppl's beliefs). The second thing I gathered from Helsinki, seeing all those top teams competing, is how important is your mindset over the pressure experienced. The discipine has two segments which require same high level of focus, attention and quality – this is the only way to secure best possible execution and possible result by themselves, not looking on others.

Next, I think that programs are just one of factors to be considered in talk over Olympic medal chances, they are kind of 'departure point' for teams, after which goes: exeution, building up/developing programs thorough the season, reception from judges, results in back-to-back competition with other teams and so on. We can also talk about how important is the process before that 'departure point' of having programs ready: it takes team's personality, preferences, abilities, qualities, way of movement, way of expressing themselves, level of being comfortable with certain styles/conventions/musical styles and so on. It all consists on the 'products' programs are, and after this period of their 'production', there is a time to reveal them and try to sell. I also think that we often do not realize that this 'production' process of programs requires from teams a lot of balance and compromising abilities over what they would like to do (in a 'clean form') vs what is required by Ice Dance rules in terms of tempo, movement and timing. We tend to criticize on ready material, its music, character, expression etc., but we often do not know if that was the original, 'clean' idea of the team, or this is a ID-ready translation of that idea. In general, I adapted an approach towards programs that essentially consists of being neutral about musical choices until I see the final effect on ice and not making assumptions based only on those choices nor on past teams' dances.

Of course, we can – and have a right to – speculate over potential choices, directions teams will go, style they are likely to adapt, but the concept of already giving medals and stating teams' chances in a very bold, decisive way based only on how successfully they did in SD/FD segments in the past or on what style they did (in terms of being repetitive) is very confusing and neglectful in regards to those teams picked up in such analysis. Like I said above, there is so much 'before' and 'after' each program of every team, but looking at discussion here, it seems like some people see teams through one factor or particular filter, which they consider as critical in terms of those teams' Olympic chances, which is kind of absurd for me. Another thing that baffles me a little is seeing and estimating teams' chances using one, same logic or criteria for all – myself, I think that the best thing in those top Ice Dance teams is the variety and being multi-dimensional. They all have their better and worse features/abilities/performances/moments, but their overall quality, experience and results worked and achieved over the years are making them a top team due to their best, not because of their worst.

Aside of the general idea of the thread, I see a particular way of narrative there, too – I am under impression that some people here try to only expose supposed flaws or lacks of particular teams, not to voice teams' chances to medal at Olympics (maybe it is a twisted way to enhance/build up your fave team's chances, even just for yourself? LOL). As I pointed at the beginning, I'm just not suited for evaluating each team in terms of chances for an Olympic medal, however – for me, talking about chances is about seeing both strong and weak sides. Maybe that's the logic of some posters to expose only this 'weaker' side of the team, based often on personal opinion or preference, but for me this is a statement why certain team has NO CHANCES for Olympic medal. I'd rather apply more positive logic myself and see strong points of each team – after all, those top teams are on the 'top' for a reason, hence a bit of laugh from me about those comments on Bobrova's 'unacceptable posture' which shoud ban her and Soloviev from competition. Well, it is not a secret that Ekaterina's posture is not a model one, or Anna Cappellini's egdes depth is not the best one out there, examples can be multiplied, but the thing is that Ice Dance is a discipline consisting of various elements, factors and it's probably impossible to have them all at the best level. Like singles skating is not only about quads, the Ice Dance is not only about posture or edges. And thank God that there is no such thing like depending on a single factor you have or not in Olympic or other competitive Ice Dance race. I wish that the narrative there would be more positive and focused on teams' strenghts – those you support more or less – instead of making another episode of weak/flaw/lack galore (in addition, often influenced by personal conviction/opinion on a team in general).

Addressing one of posts here – I really do not think that having 'killer SD/FD' or 'finding right SD/FD' for Tessa/Scott and Gabriella/Guillaume should be assumed automatically in regards to Olympic season, without seeing actual programs. I think that last season's material of both teams was judged as 'killer' or 'less right' based on execution of particular performances/scores/way SD or FD built thorough the season and based on personal preferece/opinion. There's never a guarantee that SD/FD will be a 'killer' one, even from the best team – the program itself as a concept and a sequence of moves to the music does not compete and executes itself. What I wish for Tessa/Scott, Gabriella/Guillaume and other Ice Dance teams is to stay healthy, motivated and focused on being themselves, staying themselves no matter what convention, rhythm or style you have to adapt or choose by yourself; I think that it is a great value to have this confidence aura about the team: about their material, about performing it, about their connection, their relationship, about competing in a discipline full of rules and restrictions, but still have some kind of identity/individuality about what they do. And for me all those 'top' teams have these qualities mentioned developed, just on different levels in particular areas. Personally, I'd like to mention Shibutanis, Gilles/Poirier and Hubbell/Donohue in terms of developing some kind of personal signature as a team recently – they all went through quite a journey to find that balance between conforming to the rules and have their own way to do so. All 3 teams really impressed me from past 2 seasons ad I'm anticipating great things from them.

Finishing, I think that the certain thing is that there will be always a discrepancy between what teams do vs what we wish them to do. Saying that, I think that probably the best is to just wait in positive anticipation for what the season – and those top teams – will bring on the table, not making too much of assumptions beforehand, especially those personally-inflicted. I am not a 'saint' myself, I'm liking some of ID teams more or less, but I always want to stay open-minded before each season and be ready for being surprised if not by a program itself, then maybe even by a single performance which could happen at Olympics.

Thank you, NoNameFace. This is a terrific post.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I once wrote a post there, but it somehow deleted itself before publication, so this is a second attempt. It will be more about how 'layered', factored the discipline is, looking at Olympic season ahead of us and my views on some of topics touched there already, as I am nothing of making statements on predictions without seeing Olympic season material presented by all teams. 'Coulda, woulda, shoulda' approach along with projecting personal sentiments out there like God's truth that can't be argued with are really not my thing – and to be honest, I don't believe that are the things those top teams are focusing on either. I think that the correct, healthy mindset, focused on development and achieving, is about experiencing loses, learning from mistakes, but putting it all in a future perspective, taking into consideration challenges, real possibilities and the state where you are. So 'sorry not sorry' about another 'word vomit'-like post, not exactly on main topic.

Firstly, I do think that last Worlds have shown us how tight and competitive the top of Ice Dance is. For me, it shown also how different those teams are, which is great. The certain thing for me is that every misstep, lost level or missed pattern key point will be important with such close points-wise race we saw in Helsinki, so iron focus during execution will be very important, no matter how long you are competing at senior level, how many medals you have and under which coach you are (maybe in contrary to some ppl's beliefs). The second thing I gathered from Helsinki, seeing all those top teams competing, is how important is your mindset over the pressure experienced. The discipine has two segments which require same high level of focus, attention and quality – this is the only way to secure best possible execution and possible result by themselves, not looking on others.

Next, I think that programs are just one of factors to be considered in talk over Olympic medal chances, they are kind of 'departure point' for teams, after which goes: exeution, building up/developing programs thorough the season, reception from judges, results in back-to-back competition with other teams and so on. We can also talk about how important is the process before that 'departure point' of having programs ready: it takes team's personality, preferences, abilities, qualities, way of movement, way of expressing themselves, level of being comfortable with certain styles/conventions/musical styles and so on. It all consists on the 'products' programs are, and after this period of their 'production', there is a time to reveal them and try to sell. I also think that we often do not realize that this 'production' process of programs requires from teams a lot of balance and compromising abilities over what they would like to do (in a 'clean form') vs what is required by Ice Dance rules in terms of tempo, movement and timing. We tend to criticize on ready material, its music, character, expression etc., but we often do not know if that was the original, 'clean' idea of the team, or this is a ID-ready translation of that idea. In general, I adapted an approach towards programs that essentially consists of being neutral about musical choices until I see the final effect on ice and not making assumptions based only on those choices nor on past teams' dances.

Of course, we can – and have a right to – speculate over potential choices, directions teams will go, style they are likely to adapt, but the concept of already giving medals and stating teams' chances in a very bold, decisive way based only on how successfully they did in SD/FD segments in the past or on what style they did (in terms of being repetitive) is very confusing and neglectful in regards to those teams picked up in such analysis. Like I said above, there is so much 'before' and 'after' each program of every team, but looking at discussion here, it seems like some people see teams through one factor or particular filter, which they consider as critical in terms of those teams' Olympic chances, which is kind of absurd for me. Another thing that baffles me a little is seeing and estimating teams' chances using one, same logic or criteria for all – myself, I think that the best thing in those top Ice Dance teams is the variety and being multi-dimensional. They all have their better and worse features/abilities/performances/moments, but their overall quality, experience and results worked and achieved over the years are making them a top team due to their best, not because of their worst.

Aside of the general idea of the thread, I see a particular way of narrative there, too – I am under impression that some people here try to only expose supposed flaws or lacks of particular teams, not to voice teams' chances to medal at Olympics (maybe it is a twisted way to enhance/build up your fave team's chances, even just for yourself? LOL). As I pointed at the beginning, I'm just not suited for evaluating each team in terms of chances for an Olympic medal, however – for me, talking about chances is about seeing both strong and weak sides. Maybe that's the logic of some posters to expose only this 'weaker' side of the team, based often on personal opinion or preference, but for me this is a statement why certain team has NO CHANCES for Olympic medal. I'd rather apply more positive logic myself and see strong points of each team – after all, those top teams are on the 'top' for a reason, hence a bit of laugh from me about those comments on Bobrova's 'unacceptable posture' which shoud ban her and Soloviev from competition. Well, it is not a secret that Ekaterina's posture is not a model one, or Anna Cappellini's egdes depth is not the best one out there, examples can be multiplied, but the thing is that Ice Dance is a discipline consisting of various elements, factors and it's probably impossible to have them all at the best level. Like singles skating is not only about quads, the Ice Dance is not only about posture or edges. And thank God that there is no such thing like depending on a single factor you have or not in Olympic or other competitive Ice Dance race. I wish that the narrative there would be more positive and focused on teams' strenghts – those you support more or less – instead of making another episode of weak/flaw/lack galore (in addition, often influenced by personal conviction/opinion on a team in general).

Addressing one of posts here – I really do not think that having 'killer SD/FD' or 'finding right SD/FD' for Tessa/Scott and Gabriella/Guillaume should be assumed automatically in regards to Olympic season, without seeing actual programs. I think that last season's material of both teams was judged as 'killer' or 'less right' based on execution of particular performances/scores/way SD or FD built thorough the season and based on personal preferece/opinion. There's never a guarantee that SD/FD will be a 'killer' one, even from the best team – the program itself as a concept and a sequence of moves to the music does not compete and executes itself. What I wish for Tessa/Scott, Gabriella/Guillaume and other Ice Dance teams is to stay healthy, motivated and focused on being themselves, staying themselves no matter what convention, rhythm or style you have to adapt or choose by yourself; I think that it is a great value to have this confidence aura about the team: about their material, about performing it, about their connection, their relationship, about competing in a discipline full of rules and restrictions, but still have some kind of identity/individuality about what they do. And for me all those 'top' teams have these qualities mentioned developed, just on different levels in particular areas. Personally, I'd like to mention Shibutanis, Gilles/Poirier and Hubbell/Donohue in terms of developing some kind of personal signature as a team recently – they all went through quite a journey to find that balance between conforming to the rules and have their own way to do so. All 3 teams really impressed me from past 2 seasons ad I'm anticipating great things from them.

Finishing, I think that the certain thing is that there will be always a discrepancy between what teams do vs what we wish them to do. Saying that, I think that probably the best is to just wait in positive anticipation for what the season – and those top teams – will bring on the table, not making too much of assumptions beforehand, especially those personally-inflicted. I am not a 'saint' myself, I'm liking some of ID teams more or less, but I always want to stay open-minded before each season and be ready for being surprised if not by a program itself, then maybe even by a single performance which could happen at Olympics.

This is excellent.

 

[Alex D]

Actually T&D belong to those few skaters whme.are known outside skating world, at least among people 40+ and not just in the UK, but in many other countries. Lots of people still remember Bolero.
It can't be said about many other skaters, even those who compete today, maybe except for Japan.

When it comes to P&C I really don't like the imagine they try to create of the skaters who know nothing about the history of ice skating and who haven't heard about past champions. It would be such a shame if indeed it was true. If the skaters don't respect the history of their discipline, then who will?

Not everyone has access to the same broadcasts. We are talking of a time with maybe 2 TV Channels, no Internet ...

We in Germany knew about Annett and Katharina, but besides that, international Stars...? Believe it or not, many German skaters just went past me as a kid and my GF was an ice dancer, so I was quite in touch with her Sport.

I also strongly believe, that an artist should mind his / her own buisness.
Create your own style and this the French surely do well.

Last but not least, not knowing someone is no crime at all, there are thousands of people in this sport and Interviews should always be taken with caution too.

 

[NoNameFace]

Thank you, NoNameFace. This is a terrific post.

This is excellent.

thank you both, lauravvv and Ic3Rabbit, I really appreciate that.

to add one more thought to my previous post, seeing how this thread was developing, I realized that I'm kind of weirdo out there in terms of supporting top teams and Ice Dance in general, at least I feel like one. Sometimes, in those 'general' ID threads I see more of 'self-fulfilling phophecies' kind of posts or 'drama stirrers' - I do get that there are particular teams' ubers out there and that's perfectly fine to support your favourite team and wish them the best, but the fashion in what this 'support' is done is often confusing to say at least. It's really unnecessary to mock people who voice critic opinions/views on your faves or to prop your team by pointing others' flaws/lacks (it's tasteless too, but who cares there about taste?LOL). How versatile and different ID top tier is, the same difference was, is and will be between our opinions. And at the end of the day, ice will decide (and judges of course) and we will be left (yet again) with reasons to complain and differenciate in our views. Better to accept this nature of things than fight with it constantly I think.

 

[icetigger]

I know which Marie-France interview you’re referring to. In the IceTalk interview I mentioned, Nick McCarvel asked them which dance teams they looked up to and Gaby answered that Scott and Tessa are the team she looked up to growing up, but says that she’s lately been watching the older ice dance stuff. In an interview from April, Guillaume talked about the Duchesnays, but it was in French, so I have no clue what he said. My point is, there in fact is evidence they’re not as oblivious to ice dance history as some people make them out to be.

I shall look up that interview! Thanks for that!