Ice Dance & the Politics of Judging

[BlissfulSynergy]

I'm creating this thread for conversation to shed light on the fact that in figure skating, there has always been behind-the-scenes finagling, politicking, networking, etc., from the very beginning. Figure skating has always been a niche, elitist sport too. That's how it evolved. Judging controversies and debates have little to nothing to do with 'conspiracies.' Even Salt Lake City was about figure skating skating as usual. It just happened on a larger scale, and it crossed the line into a conspiracy when a mob figure was discovered to have been involved, no matter how they are still trying to deny to this day that a bargain was reached, facilitated by behind-the-scenes finagling. Ironically, none of it was actually necessary for the skaters involved who were very good, e.g., the ice dance team who won, should have won. They were that good. Anissina/Piezarat didn't need any deal to be made by feds or judges with a tit-for-tat bargain involving pairs.

It's not like, such things as the Salt Lake City scandal had never happened before. In general, there was notorious European bloc judging. There has been consensus scoring among judges based on country politicking. It still happens to a degree. But it also makes a difference how skaters actually perform. The new judging system was actually created to protect the judges rather than to be fair to the athletes. That's one of the reasons why the judges were made anonymous post-2002 Olympics, which was not a good idea. That's why it was eventually scrapped. There are still huge problems with the judging system, although a lot of good can be said about those people who worked on trying to create a better system. They had been working for awhile, probably in vain too. It was only the 2002 Olympic scandal that made the ISU quickly institute COP/IJS, which was not actually fully completed, nor tested. All very laughable and ridiculous, and the reason why so many rules changes have had to be instituted over the years since.

Still, had the French judge not guiltily caved due to the media's and the crowd's vociferous reactions, nothing would have been done. Not much would have changed. She just needed to say that how she scored was based on her perception due to thus and so about the skaters' performances, etc. Everything is so subjective that had she done so, that cheating scandal (which is the tip of the iceberg in fs cheating scandals) would have been pasted over eventually (except of course if the mob figure involvement was never uncovered later). There's also no doubt that Didier Gailhauguet was involved in how the French judge scored the event. The IOC was mad at the ISU for the worldwide media eruption, not because of unfair judging, or inequities in the judging system.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The below post in the RD team event thread is why I created this thread to provide my response to the poster, since the conversation is off-topic in that competition thread:

Sorry but the amount of people that praise S/K that are not Russian clearly show that they have skill. What is in it for other commentators to praise them if they didn’t actually believe it? The conspiracy theories on here are wild sometimes. Do the judges always get it right? No. Is their political voting/national bias at times? Yes. But S/K have consistently been 2nd for the most part to P/C for the last few years, so does that mean it’s all one big conspiracy by all the judges in all competitions and by non-Russian commentators?!

I think Russians always have a leg up in all the disciplines because they invest a lot in the sport and lots of Russians learn to skate at a very young age and have good basic skating skills. S/K aren’t even my favourite team let alone favourite Russian team, but the constant judging conspiracy is getting tiresome. Sorry for the rant but I had to say something.

H/D definitely deserve to be first as they skated that brilliantly.

This is figure skating, and ice dancing has been notoriously political from when it started as a new discipline. The political scoring is nothing new, fyi to younger people who haven't been watching this sport for more than 20 years. I've been watching figure skating since the 1968 Olympics. I understand the history. You might be an older fan too, or not, I don't know. It's important to understand that none of this is about 'conspiracy.' It doesn't have to be. It is how the sport rolls. For example, everyone knows that Bobrova/ Soloviev were not that skilled as an ice dance team, but they were often held up. They did get better, and they are both nice people and pleasant to watch, but still they were often held up because that was the push by their coach and by Rusfed. It has nothing to do with conspiracy. It has to do with figure skating politics.

As far as Tanith White, her comments show that she respects ice dance and she's a fair commentator. The U.S. commentators tend to bend toward fairness and inclusiveness of all the athletes in their coverage, which is not always the case among commentators in every country. I believe Tanith also knows Nikita and Vika from when they trained in Canton. I supported SinKats too when they paired up and were trying to make it. I don't have a problem with them personally, except for some of Nikita's reported behavior and character flaws. Also, I don't think they've improved to the level of skaters they are routinely placed in front of.

I enjoy watching Stepanova/Bukin, but they, along with SinKats, were suddenly pushed up in the scoring several years ago (similar to how young Russian teen lady skaters suddenly began receiving higher and higher PCS marks just in time for the 2014 Olympics, where first there was talk of a Russian lady winning bronze, and then after Lipnitskaya in the team event, the buzz became that the gold in ladies' figure skating was going to a young Russian. It was theirs to be had, but it was Elena Sotnikova who grabbed it). Again, that outcome has nothing at all to do with conspiracy. It's just part of the sport and part of how the judging, political networking, and fed politicking operates. It's accepted and everybody knows what goes on, and apparently most people in the fs community feel there's nothing that can be done to prevent it because it's the way things have rolled since forever in this sport.

Currently, the Russians are very vocal and actionable in their desire to 'take back' ice dance for their athletes. They have been vocally displeased and tired of North American dominance ever since the rise of V/M, D/W, The Shibs, Pap/Ciz, et al. There's nothing new or surprising about this. It's common knowledge.

Of course every skater who enjoys skating for the pure love of the sport and the passion to excel deserve more fairness in the judging, and in how the sport operates. I doubt it will ever happen in my lifetime, so I'm resigned to things as they are and as they have been. Sometimes, the excellence, courage, and heroics of the skaters overcome the pettiness and conflicts of interest, complete and total politics, and too often, unfairness of the judging system. Those entertaining, uplifting, and rare spine-tingling moments that skaters can give us on the ice are the main reason I continue to watch the sport.

Sure, none of the athletes should be blamed for their federation's, and/or country's behavior. As always, it is what it is. I don't know Nikita K well at all. But what I do know about him and about his skating, and also what I know about Zhulin doesn't make either of them horrible, but I'm less than impressed by their characters and attitudes. Zhulin was a fantastic ice dancer and he's a good coach, but I don't think much of him otherwise.

I always give credit to the excellence of Russia's figure skaters, and I enjoy watching so many of them over the years. It's wonderful that Russia supports its skaters and has a long tradition in the sport. It's not so wonderful what the country did re the notorious doping scandal, and then tried to deny, which is why their athletes are designated as ROC (which is a silly punishment, that is not a real punishment for the actual perpetrators).

Also, while Russians are known to be excellent in all the disciplines, they do not 'have a leg up' in all the disciplines. There's a lot of history to be understood re Russians and their role/ rise in figure skating. If you are young, I suppose 'Russian dominance' is mostly all you are aware of in figure skating. There's a lot more to learn about how the sport evolved. I'm still learning and still eager to learn as much as I can about the sport's history and evolution.

 

[dorispulaski]

Any effective political push for a team involves a lot of players. Otherwise it would not work. Smh.

Corruption is not usually how it is done.

It generally involves changes in the rules, but rule changes always have the unintended consequence of elevating other teams with similar strengths and weaknesses.

The push to favor Katsalapov and Sinitsina involved rule changes emphasizing speed, power, long legs, strength, and glide and deemphasizing the ability to dance in time to the music, to connect to the music to tell a story, and to have stable, quick, creative lifts. And in fact this style seems to me to agree with Russian taste in dance-more ballet and less ballroom.

(But ice dance is essentially a ballroom derived sport...I digress)

Anyway, unfortunately for Katsalapov & Sinitsina, not only Papadakis & Cizeron are better at powerful, gliding skating than they are, the current rules also are good for Hubbell & Donohue who have similar strengths and weaknesses to the other two teams.

What are S&K's weaknesses, that the rules now deemphasized:

1. Often somewhat shaky lifts. You now do not have to complete the lift in just 6 seconds. They raised the amount. Changes in levels for entry and exit both. And It is possible to avoid ever having to do a lift on one foot, and lifts with your knee on the ice are ok. Also one lift is choreographic, and has almost no rules.

2. Difficulty in handling fast tempos (which hiphop shows up), and which may have contributed to Nikita's stumble the other day. Fast tempo is often more difficult for taller, more long legged teams.

3. Difficulty in really feeling and hitting the beat. This drives me nuts. It used to be a pcs requirement for a 10 that you could not skate through the beats. I miss that.

And so I do not watch for the score so much any more, I watch for the dancers I enjoy instead.

Speed, power, and physical beauty are all lovely, but I have a fondness for watching the guys really dance. That's my weakness, it is not any federation's corruption.