2021 Worlds: Pairs Short Program

[coldblueeyes]

In fact, even despite the relatively not too disastrous errors both U.S. teams made in comparison to similar errors of top teams ahead of them, both U.S. teams should have received higher GOE on some of their elements. K/F didn't get better GOE on some quality elements because they skated early and they are a new partnership.

C-G/LD didn't get better GOE on what they did well because of judges holding back. Quite clearly both U.S. teams are competitive with all of the top teams.

A question: which element should they have received more GOE? I thought K/F could have got more PCS, but their skate was very tentative. Even their twist wasn't as good as I've seen before, but it was their debut, and some nervousness was to be expected. As for Ash and Tim, I could argue for more in the step sequence, but they also had balance checks there, so positives and negatives balance each other out. In the comparison with the top 3, for example, I cannot see how they would get close to them. Maybe a battle for 4th place in the current standings.

 

[Arriba627]

Kirsten and Michael just aren't my cup of tea, but it sounds like they've had a tough time with some injuries though, and they haven't had any competitions at all during the pandemic, right? They'll be back strong next season.

Perfectly clean skates are always nice, but that was thoroughly enjoyable to me. I think the free skate is gonna be a barn burner. I need to organize some snacks for my nervousness!

 

[litenkyckling]

What do the Canadians need to do tomorrow to keep 2 spots?

 

[Ice Diva]

Hm, that program did nothing for me. The got through it but a bit messy, sadly...

I agree. The music for a start does them no favours.

 

[skylark]

Okay, my rant no one asked for.
Honestly, I feel like S/H's technique (obviously aside from sbs jumps) is just second to none. They don't have the highest twist (being under 170 cm as a pairs guy will probably do that), but they get the control so perfect that he has the right momentum going for a triple and quad twist (still curious that no other pair have done a quad for as long and consistently as they have). Hope they bring the quad back if they're healthy enough.
And the lifts. Do not get me started on the lifts. I feel like most of the pairs guys are always lacking a bit either in posture, speed, ice coverage, or a combination of those, but Han checks all the boxes. I'd say another example of a near perfect lifter would be Rylov (arguably even better than Han in this element).

I agree with you. At the same time, I can't neglect to notice that they've skated together as a pair much longer than any of their present-day competitors. And that makes a difference. They worked hard to smooth out the kinks, and then they work to sustain that technique.

In pairs, technique is as much a matter of timing as anything else.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I really think that KMT/MM are the only team with a realistic chsnce to overtake the Americans. Skating in the second group, it will be a challenge.

I think the contrary, because KMT/MM don't have a lot of competition under their belts this season, and it showed in the sp. All the U.S. teams need to do is to skate to their level in the fp, which honestly is element to element a bit higher level than that of KMT/MM. K/F have a better 3-twist and high quality lifts and throws, along with palpable excitement that they just need to harness. K/F are a very athletic team, even better than Alexa was with Chris. K/F have done amazing to be in this position as a new partnership, albeit with that one mistake and the judges not giving them much leeway due to skating early and having to prove themselves.

C-G/LD have better lines, compelling physicality, and more difficulty than KMT/MM. Again, it is a matter of rep politics and proving it on the ice to gain the judges' respect. I like KMT/MM's programs and their gritty competitiveness, but matchup to matchup on overall elements, they don't necessarily match that well with any of the top three U.S. teams, which doesn't mean to say KMT/MM at their best can't beat U.S. teams. Of course they can. However, remember last year at 4CCs that Calalang/Johnson beat KMT/MM in the fp. That's because of C/J's superb quality, despite being a fairly new team. Hands down, C/J's lifts and 3-twist are spectacular elements, along with their speed, chemistry and SS, and they aren't even competing at Worlds this year.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Sui/Han just have enormous self-belief and indomitable will. They wouldn't be getting the GOE they get without their ability to spark our attention with their dynamism and determination. Obviously, they have some exciting tricks that are grounded in hard work and good technique. But there are other teams with greater abilities who don't have the same drive, self-belief or strength of will to get the job done. T/M for example.

 

[Sjs5572]

What do the Canadians need to do tomorrow to keep 2 spots?

Placement total 28 or less, with max placement of 16 for making it to the free program. Realistically, there is no way they are losing two spots.

 

[skylark]

Perhaps she feels they've been in good enough condition this season, idk. I agree it's not a super timely choice...

I think B/K really needed a change. I'd rather not watch the Bond program again, but that would've been too much to change I think.

I love the Howl's program, it provided them a lightness that they needed, or recovered.

 

[skylark]

S/H just have the will, the fire and the desire, even when they aren't at the top of their game.

So the Americans will be in the next to final group. What has helped them, even despite not performing to their capability, is the fact that both of K/F and C-G/LD are actually quite talented. And when we break down the quality of their overall elements with a lot of the other teams, it's just that those teams altho' they may have landed jumps, etc., they just don't hold up in terms of lines, speed, and quality of overall elements. That's a fact, and that is what has helped keep K/F and C-G/LD within fighting distance. Still, they would have needed not to lose the points they did in order to try and beat say P/J and/or M-T/M, both of whom they are competitive with. Plus, both teams have more experience than the two of the Russian teams.

So we'll see. For my money, so far, I enjoyed Mishina/Galliamov, S/H are always dynamic, the Japanese team is good. And I love the programs of both American teams, but disappointed in them not holding it together. Hopefully, it might take the pressure off them for the fp with the fact that they are at least still in the second to last group and if they give it their all, they have a fighting chance to do well overall, whether or not they can pull up from 7 and 8 places.

Agree with everything, and of course you know now, but They. Are. Now. 6th. And. 7th! Like I said, anything can happen tomorrow, but this is something for them to be proud of.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

A question: which element should they have received more GOE? I thought K/F could have got more PCS, but their skate was very tentative. Even their twist wasn't as good as I've seen before, but it was their debut, and some nervousness was to be expected. As for Ash and Tim, I could argue for more in the step sequence, but they also had balance checks there, so positives and negatives balance each other out. In the comparison with the top 3, for example, I cannot see how they would get close to them. Maybe a battle for 4th place in the current standings.

Yeah on PCS for both teams because to be honest, they both have dynamism and energy to their skating, with quality elements. Yes, they have to perform with more confidence, but the judges also have to stop looking down on U.S. teams too, along with fans. Every pair team can make mistakes on sbs jumps, not just U.S. teams.

Even though K/F could have done even better on the 3-twist, they completed it well and better than a lot of teams. The bit of nerves was obvious but they managed it well. Had K/F skated later, their scores would have been higher. And with Ash's fall and K/F's baseline of 64.67 being where it was at with their performance, that's one reason why C-G/LD were rated in the same ballpark. Both teams could be low 70s in the sp with their talent. But of course they have to prove it in competition.

 

[Ice Diva]

I'm really gutted for T/M. Such great potential....

Potential in spades, gorgeous skaters but they have no passion; in fact they're almost robotic. As for their choice of music ...

 

[s_parks]

I think B/K really needed a change. I'd rather not watch the Bond program again, but that would've been too much to change I think.

I love the Howl's program, it provided them a lightness that they needed, or recovered.

I like the music, it's a good choice for them, but the choreography itself was meh. If they keep the music for next season, hopefully the choreo will be worked on.

 

[flanker]

it's all for today. see you tomorrow, i'm going to need emotional support

This medicine is reliably tested:

(Ibalgin is a local name for ibuprofen )

 

[anonymoose_au]

But there are other teams with greater abilities who don't have the same drive, self-belief or strength of will to get the job done. T/M for example.

Well that's not hard when all you've ever been shown is overwhelming love and support by the fandom like S/H have. Everybody fawns over them the second they step on the ice. How many seasons have they done that SP? And fans have the nerve to call T/M stale and predictable?

T/M have never been favourites, ever. Before Candyman they were that dull as dirt Russian pair who put everyone to sleep.

Post-Candyman they're a joke.

S/H and their many, many, MANY fans wouldn't have the faintest idea what it's like.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Agree with everything, and of course you know now, but They. Are. Now. 6th. And. 7th! Like I said, anything can happen tomorrow, but this is something for them to be proud of.

Yeah, because Della Monica/Guarise were not sharp and neither were KMT/MM. So it is a good position for C-G/LD and K/F to be skating in the second to last group at 6 and 7 place. Both teams have to bring their A game to the fp though.

I'd like to see more excitement in pairs (especially with the diversity and innovation that James/Cipres brought now missing). Frankly with the talent that the U.S. teams have, it would be exciting if they can pull off getting that third spot for the Olympics, and bring some unique high level programs for next season.

 

[skylark]

No. But I still say—they have a majestic quality that no other pair has, and they are thrilling to watch!

They are majestic, you're right ... but when they're not perfect, that sense of awe crumbles in me and I don't feel much.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Well that's not hard when all you've ever been shown is overwhelming love and support by the fandom like S/H have. Everybody fawns over them the second they step on the ice. How many seasons have they done that SP? And fans have the nerve to call T/M stale and predictable?

T/M have never been favourites, ever. Before Candyman they were that dull as dirt Russian pair who put everyone to sleep.

Post-Candyman they're a joke.

S/H and their many, many, MANY fans wouldn't have the faintest idea what it's like.

T/M have certainly been favorites and they also get enormous respect from the judges. Please check their actual scoring history. T/M were given scores with several mistakes and a terrible Candyman fp that beat James/Cipres at 2017 TDF. I'll never forget the blatant bias of that. Simply put, T/M are and have been a favored team. I truly believe that T/M's self-doubt and inconsistency grew after winning that championship in that way over James/Cipres who were at home and also better on the day.

Despite T/M's drawbacks of not selecting the best music to enhance their partnership, they have still been very well-liked by fans and judges. Of course, it is annoying how S/H take so much time off and come back to win everything with huge scores. For example, the season where James/Cipres won every competition they entered before coming into Worlds 2019, both S/H and T/M were over-scored in the sp before J/C even took to the ice, which told me the judges weren't looking at J/C as the favorites when they should have been, since they'd beaten T/M that season, and S/H weren't lights out. Both T/M and S/H got some rep padding. Unfortunately, J/C had nerves due to being in a great position coming in with their stellar record. But a run-in during the sp warm-up further rattled Vanessa and they made mistakes which the judges also harshly scored, so J/C were off the podium altogether despite performing very well in their fp.

This sport is what it is.

 

[Fluture]

Well that's not hard when all you've ever been shown us overwhelming love and support by the fandom like S/H have. Everybody fawns over them the second they step on the ice.
How many seasons have they done that SP?

According to Wikipedia, this is the second season they‘ve skated to it. Last time in 2016-17.

Also, from what I know, they‘ve had many injuries and went through a lot of tough times. It’s quite admirable they managed to be where they are now. I understand you‘re disappointed but don‘t you think you‘re being quite disrespectful?

T/M are World Champion material and once they deliver, the judges will reward them. Perhaps it will even be tomorrow, who knows?

 

[litenkyckling]

T/M are World Champion material and once they deliver, the judges will reward them. Perhaps it will even be tomorrow, who knows?

I think the issue is that the judges were willing to reward them this quad - and they did in 2019. But you can only be WC material if you can prove it time and time again, and unfortunately they just haven't.