2015 Russian Nationals Ladies FS

[Lfmesquite]

Hmm not sure why you dislike Radionova that much. Yes, she's not the classical artistic skater. People have different personality. Just because you don't have the Michelle Kwan or Katie Witt or Oksana Baiul feminity does not mean they are not good skaters. Sure, Radionova is rather unpolished, showy even. She simply depends on a different presentation type. Just like Irina Slutskaya who will never be the lovely ice princessy sort, she and Radionova simply use their exuberance and big personality to connect with the audience. In this sense, the CoP replacement of the 6.0 scoring helped allow those skaters who fall outside the princessy elegance mould to shine.

I personally think Radionova is amazing, not sure why you say she's not elegant and what do you mean by showy?

 

[Lfmesquite]

I'd like say you can't simply ignore the fact that Yulia has wow-factors, so she has gotten a lot of attention from figure skating fans even before the Olympic season regardless of her actual ability. Of course, the Olympics made her a star, but not every Olympic medalists has such stardom she has. If you don't have a chance to watch one of Yulia's performances at Junior WC, I recommend you do. You can hear a lot of applause and exclamation as she ended her program with her signature spin. Considering that, the stage for Yulia was only widen, but the responses to her performance for the team event at the Olympics were almost same. I think you should give her a credit for her star quality, not lowball her as a "unfairly media daring".

As for Radionova, I don't recall any single person in this thread said that Liza or the other girls should've won the title at this event or Radionova's victory is not worthy. She performed clean without any edge issues or missing elements, so she won while the other girls did not. When Liza won the GPF title two weeks ago, some people congratulated her victory and successful recovery, at the same time other people freely expressed their complaints or even dislikes about her skating due to her relatively small ice coverage and unique choreography and etc. On the other hand, if I recall correctly, there was no such labeling as "haters". Moreover, at some point, Yulia and Radionova have notably several resemblances regarding their age, achievements and possible body changes after puberty. Moreover, the event showed us drastic contrasts between the two; one being fallen and the other being a rising starlet. That could easily lead people to talk about possible Radionova's future based on Yulia's current status.

I finally respect your comment even if I don't really agree. I'l just say that "star quality" is something I don't like. It's Hollywood-isk, Hollywood is terrible, it's a disease, it represents everything wrong with the word. Vanity, empowering certain people over others (meaning it puts some people on a pedestal), making people not equal to each other. I could never support something like that. You want me to give credit to Lipnitskaya for her "star quality" instead of calling her an "unfair media darling" I don't think so.

 

[PyeongChang2018]

I finally respect your comment even if I don't really agree. I'l just say that "star quality" is something I don't like. It's like Hollywood-isk, Hollywood is terrible, it's a disease, it represents everything wrong with the word. Vanity, empowering certain people over others (meaning it puts some people on a pedestal), making people not equal to each other. I could never support something like that. You want me to give credit to Lipnitskaya for her "star quality" I will not.

You're either totally misinterpreting what everyone is saying or you're choosing to twist others' words because you're trolling. Lipnitskaya has that je ne sais quoi. There's something about her that makes you want to watch her. You might not think she has it, but the media and just about everyone else on this board thinks she does. It's not something that is manufactured; she just has it. That doesn't mean we're putting her on a pedestal or empowering her over certain people - on the contrary it seems quite clear the Russian Federation doesn't want this to be her season, so they, the ones who really matter, are placing her way off the pedestal - it just means she gives us reasons to want to watch her. Also, I think you need to look up "vanity" in the dictionary. Vanity is extreme pride in oneself. Lipnitskaya, the girl who has attested to life being difficult for her, clearly does not have any confidence in herself. The last thing she has is vanity.

 

[Big Deal]

What Julia needs to be a real constant star is another coach, who:
1.teach the right jumping technique for her
2.who is able to make a choreo where all her beautiful moves are finished in an esthetic way not being rushed and unfinished.
3.who support her when she feels herself in trouble. her recent coach doesn't show any empathy in the K&C, and has too many kids, not enough time to take care of her soul.
She should need a good jump coach plus a full-hearted Tarasova to take care of the rest.

For the Russian Federation the easiest way should be to give Pogorilaya to the Tarasova team. She has everything but the polishment and refinement, what those people can give her to be unbeatable even with a body of a woman.

 

[Lfmesquite]

That doesn't mean we're putting her on a pedestal or empowering her over certain people - on the contrary it seems quite clear the Russian Federation doesn't want this to be her season, so they, the ones who really matter, are placing her way off the pedestal - it just means she gives us reasons to want to watch her.

Dude, did you see her performance? What did you want them to do? Have her make the podium? I mean come on dude.

Your whole post is crazy but that segment just makes it obvious, and it shows where a lot of the people in this forum are coming from. But lets give it a rest, I'm unfortunately close to being banned from this forum, I have 2 infractions already.

 

[CarneAsada]

I finally respect your comment even if I don't really agree. I'l just say that "star quality" is something I don't like. It's Hollywood-isk, Hollywood is terrible, it's a disease, it represents everything wrong with the word. Vanity, empowering certain people over others (meaning it puts some people on a pedestal), making people not equal to each other. I could never support something like that. You want me to give credit to Lipnitskaya for her "star quality" instead of calling her an "unfair media darling" I don't think so.

LOL. Do you also hate Radionova for the star quality that she has in spades? The only reason millions of people weren't talking about her is the age rule and Russia's 2 Olympic spots.

 

[PyeongChang2018]

Dude, did you see her performance? What did you want them to do? Have her make the podium? I mean come on dude.

Your whole post is crazy but that segment just makes it obvious, and it shows where a lot of the people in this forum are coming from. But lets give it a rest, I'm unfortunately close to being banned from this forum, I have 2 infractions already.

But that's what I'm talking about. You're purposely twisting what I'm saying. By "the Russian Federation", I'm not talking specifically about "the Russian nationals judges".

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Dude, did you see her performance? What did you want them to do? Have her make the podium? I mean come on dude.

Your whole post is crazy but that segment just makes it obvious, and it shows where a lot of the people in this forum are coming from. But lets give it a rest, I'm unfortunately close to being banned from this forum, I have 2 infractions already.

That's unsurprising. Maybe change your tone. I've certainly been given infractions before but cool your jets and speak in a way that is constructive and not insulting to skaters, and the mods will go easy on ya.

This is a forum with a lot of fans and there's a line between criticism and completely lambasting skaters when they're down.

 

[Sandpiper]

There are plenty of skaters I don't personally connect to, but there's no reason for me to wish--or expect--them to have no fans. Nor does it make sense to dislike someone because of how much/little the media talks about them. I mean, if one hates the media so much, isn't ignoring the media and not letting it influence your opinions actually the best way of sticking it to them?

Agreed on all counts except her 2A. While its more hit than miss, her takeoff and lack of driving her free leg up minimizes her height on the jump which can lead to disaster. Contrast this with Kovtun's poor posture on his 4S which looks bad but isn't compromising his ability to execute the jump (if anything, hunching kinda turns his body into a compressed spring that gets him more height on the jump). That's the difference between bad technique (that can be detrimental to a jumps successful execution) compared to ugly technique which is detrimental to a jump's grade of execution.

Kovtun popped two quad salchows this season. Yulia fell on, I believe, two double axels. I don't think it makes sense to say one is bad technique and one is bad aesthetics (and if we count last season, the stats probably skew in favour of Yulia). This is also Yulia's worst season to date. I'll wait 'til next season and a change in LP to say if it's technique or nerves that failed her. At this point, I'm inclined to say both jumps (Kovtun's 4S and Yulia's 2A) are bad aesthetics.

 

[Ophelia]

I finally respect your comment even if I don't really agree. I'l just say that "star quality" is something I don't like. It's Hollywood-isk, Hollywood is terrible, it's a disease, it represents everything wrong with the word. Vanity, empowering certain people over others (meaning it puts some people on a pedestal), making people not equal to each other. I could never support something like that. You want me to give credit to Lipnitskaya for her "star quality" instead of calling her an "unfair media darling" I don't think so.

Major side eye.

Logic does not compute.

 

[Krunchii]

Why does it seem like some of you are happier over someone else's failure than your favourite's sucess? Yulia should not be sorry for skating the best of her ability when she earned the opportunities to skate at some of the most prestigious events. Not her fault the media loves her so much. Yulia is low on my list of favourite Russian ladies but I find myself defending her so much

Anyway it looks like with her results Evgenia Medvedeva will definitely go senior next year, Serafima is too young I believe but will she do the senior GP? Even with the results at this competition I can't tell if Evgenia or Serafima will win Junior Worlds. Serafima had a bad SP here but she is definitely still capable of more.

 

[CarneAsada]

Kovtun popped two quad salchows this season. Yulia fell on, I believe, two double axels. I don't think it makes sense to say one is bad technique and one is bad aesthetics (and if we count last season, the stats probably skew in favour of Yulia). This is also Yulia's worst season to date. I'll wait 'til next season and a change in LP to say if it's technique or nerves that failed her. At this point, I'm inclined to say both jumps (Kovtun's 4S and Yulia's 2A) are bad aesthetics.

She popped one (not just singled) at Nationals and the one in her SP wasn't good, quite tilted in the air. It's worrying because these mistakes have all come quite recently.

 

[Meoima]

I finally respect your comment even if I don't really agree. I'l just say that "star quality" is something I don't like. It's Hollywood-isk, Hollywood is terrible, it's a disease, it represents everything wrong with the word. Vanity, empowering certain people over others (meaning it puts some people on a pedestal), making people not equal to each other. I could never support something like that. You want me to give credit to Lipnitskaya for her "star quality" instead of calling her an "unfair media darling" I don't think so.

Where do you com from if zi might ask? I have the feeling it's like from a very distant galaxy.
Your logic is just from another planet I am afraid I couldn't comprehend.
Yulia has nothing to do with Hollywood.
People are just saying she has something that attracts them to watch her. That ability itself is a talent.
In term of skating she is not too shabby either. Her spins are the best in the world. She has a great lyrical style on ice. Those are her qualities.

 

[MalAssada]

What Julia needs to be a real constant star is another coach...

I agree with some points of this post and strongly disagree with others.

There we go:

1. Eteri isn't completely to blame for Yulia's jump technique; she already had her 2A when she moved to Moscow, but I will give you that Eteri had plenty of time to change it as well as her edges.
2. Agreed. As I have already stated in her fan fest, I think Yulia needs a new choreographer, and IMO she went to Ilya this year because of the success of her SL program. He was too busy doing shows to choreograph a new LP, so he is partially to blame for her lack of preparation.
3. Strongly disagree. Eteri supports Yulia more than it seems. Again, in Yulia's fan fest, multiple things were pointed out, such as not going to any JGP with the other girls to focus on Yulia's training and programs. You want a cold coach, look at Anna's.
EXTRA. Jump coach? Yes. Tarasova? Erm... Not sure.

 

[liberrhythm]

You're either totally misinterpreting what everyone is saying or you're choosing to twist others' words because you're trolling. Lipnitskaya has that je ne sais quoi. There's something about her that makes you want to watch her. You might not think she has it, but the media and just about everyone else on this board thinks she does. It's not something that is manufactured; she just has it. That doesn't mean we're putting her on a pedestal or empowering her over certain people - on the contrary it seems quite clear the Russian Federation doesn't want this to be her season, so they, the ones who really matter, are placing her way off the pedestal - it just means she gives us reasons to want to watch her. Also, I think you need to look up "vanity" in the dictionary. Vanity is extreme pride in oneself. Lipnitskaya, the girl who has attested to life being ddifficult, for her, clearly does not have any confidence in herself. The last thing she has is vanity.

Agreed. Even though Lipnitskaya definitely did not live up to the standards placed for her, it's pretty hard for a teenager to withstand that kind of pressure. Most kids grow up without the demands of the media (which invariably ruins most things with biased exaggeration) and its hard to expect that she can. Even though you may not prefer her skating to Radionova's or someone else, its not fair really to condemn her for a couple of bad performances.

 

[liberrhythm]

Are skaters from Russia allowed to take coaches from other countries? I feel like some of the U.S. coaches have good enough experience and a different enough mindset to maybe change Yulia's jumps for the better. They are most definitely her weakest element.

 

[MalAssada]

Anyway it looks like with her results Evgenia Medvedeva will definitely go senior next year, Serafima is too young I believe but will she do the senior GP? Even with the results at this competition I can't tell if Evgenia or Serafima will win Junior Worlds. Serafima had a bad SP here but she is definitely still capable of more.

Nope, she is ellegible and so are Maria Sotskova and Alexandra Proklova. Serafima was born on February 9, 2000.

 

[Sandpiper]

She popped one (not just singled) at Nationals and the one in her SP wasn't good, quite tilted in the air. It's worrying because these mistakes have all come quite recently.

It's very much possible that you and CSG are correct--I shouldn't neglect to say that. I just find the discrepancy between her SP performances and her LP ones too great to ignore; she's landed everything in every SP so far this season, while she's missed multiple different jumps (flip, salchow, axel, lutz) in her LP. So if I were playing detective (I guess that's what we're doing right now), that's the first place where I'd focus my research.

(Btw, not saying she has great technique. Just saying it's not the technique that's causing the problems).

 

[Krunchii]

Nope, she is ellegible and so are Maria Sotskova and Alexandra Proklova. Serafima was born on February 9, 2000.

Well then Serafima will definitely go senior too, maybe Alexandra can stay another year in Juniors to rack up some medals, not sure about Maria, would she want to medal at Junior Worlds first before going senior? The Japanese Juniors are putting up a good fight this year and there's still Elizabet Turzynbaeva and a healthy Karen Chen can also get good results too.

 

[gotoschool]

Yeah unless you're media darling Lipnitskaya who falters and people just forget about it and act like you still won. Even Sotnikova can't possibly really like Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova did it, she became the first Russian women figure skater ever to bring the gold for her country, she won the biggest prize you can win, and she still doesn't get full credit because of damn "media darling" Lipnitskaya who choked at Sochi but still gets more credit than she does. Lipnitskaya bombed at Sochi and she bombed even harder this season.

Like I said, her only real international title was the European championship. People talk about silver at worlds, that was an Olympic year, worlds was such a watered down afterthought event, all the best skaters were resting after the Olympics, Kostner, Sotnikova, Yuna Kim, and Lipnitskaya still fell if I remember right. Only Mao Asada went and good thing or Lipnitskaya would have a worlds gold right now, and her fandom would make an even bigger deal.

I also want to clear something up, by "media darling", I'm talking people who get more attention than they have talent, that means all attention and everything that comes with it, all the fans, photo shoots, social media page getting lots of followers. Like some dude said, when people decide that you have the so called "it" factor, that's what I mean, I don't mean just literally the press stalking her.

Yeah, it's the "it" factor, but like we saw this season, the "it" factor doesn't win you competitions.

Good bye Lipnitskaya, your season ended early this year, see you next October which is like a year from now, hopefully you grow up some and you're no longer the little girl prodigy so people stop paying so much ridiculous attention to you. And so that you're not left crying again like a little brat... I would use a different B word, but I don't want to get kicked off.

I'm not mad anymore guys, I'm just having a little fun with this now. I hope you can tell.

You sound like Jack Gallagher with the watered down worlds comment. It was so "watered down" and so much of an after thought that it had the best set of ladies SP's ever including a new world record by Mao. The World championships predate the Olympics and it really is dismissive and begrudging to demean the achievements of those who medal or win there. Also, what is that supposed to mean all the best skaters were resting after the Olympics? It seems like you just want to provoke people.