Karen is off to China for the CoC. She looks excited, though I wish I could be more excited for her. I hope she's improved since the US Classic. She did a local competition a month ago. The short was much better, albeit with no 3+3. But the long was not good. Several pops and a fall. I wish I knew what was happening with her.
State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17
- Thread starter R.D.
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- Feb 17, 2010
Karen has skated exactly one strong program during her entire senior career: the 2015 Nationals LP. As a senior, she has not achieved 63+ in the SP or 120+ in the LP, internationally. Nothing is "happening" to her; she is just a very inconsistent skater who happened to skate one amazing program that was televised.
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- Apr 4, 2016
I'm very sympathetic to Gracie's anxiety issues. But it appears she is blaming her horrific GP performances on getting a late start training this year and I'm not at all sympathetic about that.
There was no reason for her not to begin training earlier in the season. She wasn't injured or dealing with a family crisis; she was, per that IceNetwork podcast, having a blast in Japan and Europe.
If she didn't want to do the work, then she should have just withdrawn from the GP and let someone who cared take her place. I doubt Frank would have minded.
I think your wrong about this. She needed time to process what happened at worlds, arguably she needed more time than she got. I believe the training start is not an "excuse" but rather the whole reason her outings have been less than stellar. If she doesn't feel prepared it mentally effects her, that is the sum total of what I believe is happening. She feels unprepared and no matter if that is untrue or not it's feeding her doubt.
I'm very sympathetic to Gracie's anxiety issues. But it appears she is blaming her horrific GP performances on getting a late start training this year and I'm not at all sympathetic about that.
There was no reason for her not to begin training earlier in the season. She wasn't injured or dealing with a family crisis; she was, per that IceNetwork podcast, having a blast in Japan and Europe.
If she didn't want to do the work, then she should have just withdrawn from the GP and let someone who cared take her place. I doubt Frank would have minded.
Look, this is like saying you broke up with someone because you were both too busy. You don't say the real reason. Gracie is too young to necessarily know the real reason. This is what she's saying to try and make sense of a humiliating period. She shouldn't be out there at the moment. I couldn't understand 4 C's after Worlds. She should have gone to Tibet with a great friend or something. Like everyone else, I think she needs help, and a highly disciplined man like Frank may not know how to find it for her. If there is a great sports psychologist out there who thinks they can help, they should step forward and announce themselves to her team. As it is, I'm not sure she should continue this year because there could be long term damage for her, the way it's going.
I'm seeing something more than a lack of fire in her eyes. She's had dark circles at both events. I see something bleaker, like depression. I am concerned for her beyond skating. and I hope someone close to her is too.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Let's be sympathetic toward whatever Gracie is going through but not be alarmist about it?
She herself has characterized herself as having been depressed after Worlds, so I'm not opposed to people using that word now, but let's remember that none of us are interacting with Gracie personally, are inside her head, or are capable of diagnosing her with anything through the internet.
She herself has characterized herself as having been depressed after Worlds, so I'm not opposed to people using that word now, but let's remember that none of us are interacting with Gracie personally, are inside her head, or are capable of diagnosing her with anything through the internet.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2016
I also noticed the dark circles. I think she needs some sort of change to her routine. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanity.
Not insulting his age. I'm calling it like it is. He's too old to realize what's wrong. Everybody and their dogs can see what Gracie is doing is wrong, and not Frank? Maybe it's not Frank's decision, in that case, Frank needs to step in and stop that 3F non-sense. Can you even think of the last time someone is doing something stupid for 3 years in a row and not doing anything to change it?
That relationship doesn't work. Move on. Frank's method might work with someone who's more self-motivated, but not someone who needs guidance 24/7.
Gracie has the potential, but she's packaged wrong, with terrible advice for the past years. She needs to go to Nicholai Morozov. Can't believe that guy would be the best for her, but at this point, it looks like it.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
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- Feb 27, 2012
"Senile" most certainly is an insult.
FlattFan, if you disagreed with something about Kori's coaching, would you call her "senile"?
Agree completely with drivingmissdaisy.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2016
How do you know it's Franks call to stick with the flip? You don't know the day to day with these two nor how much is actually Franks fault. Gracie had a pretty good year last year and was very sed motivated to rise to the top and just barely slipped off the edge. They don't appear to working well together this season, but goodness that's not entirely on Frank. I believe Gracie may need to leave him just for a fresh perspective on skating, or at least they need to bring someone new in.
As for her packaging I like that someone is still skating to classica music. She's actually a very mature skater with the packaging she has, I don't think changing her music and look will actually accomplish much. Gracie's problems are mostly in her head.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
As far as the decision on the flip, I remember most people here suggesting Adelina remove the same jump from her SP during the Sochi Olympic season, when she fell in event after event. She stuck with it and IIRC she landed the 3F in her last 9 attempts (3 each at Russian nationals, Euros, and Olympics). There may be good reasons that they have decided to keep the jump: it is solid in practice, they are concerned about penalties for not doing footwork into the solo jump, she wants to work on getting the correct takeoff edge in competition, etc. I think the errors are mostly a reflection of her lack of confidence, and at Nationals we will see her in much better physical and mental shape. Anna P had a disappointing GP season but pulled herself together nicely by the end of the season last year, so there is still hope for Gracie (who skates for a country with much less depth than Russia).
And let's all remember that teens/young adults over-use the word "depressed"
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Actually, I'm of the mind that we should just take it at face value when someone uses it. As I struggled with depression/anxiety as a teenager, I am familiar with some adults' tendency to brush off young people's problems as melodrama instead of listening.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
These are the stats about Gracie and the flip generally. I only counted solo jumps in this analysis.
2016-2017 so far
3F 0/4 landed
2015-2016
3F 3/9 landed
2014-2015
3F 2/7 landed
The 3F is her worst solo jump and it isn't even close. Overall she's landed it just 25% of the time in competition, and she has landed zero out of four this year so far. Even taking out this year she only lands this 31.2% of the time.
By way of comparison, she lands the 2A over 90% of the time in competition, and if you take out this year, she's landed it 96% of the time. The 3Lo is her best solo triple jump. She's landed it 86% of the time in competition, and if you take out this year she's landed it 94.7% of the time.
The 3S and 3Lz are both also not great, but she lands the salchow about 57% of the time, and the lutz about 60% of the time. (Again this analysis does not account for jumps attempted in combination- only solo jumps she intended as solo jumps).
Now look, I haven't run a similar analysis for Adelina, but when a skater can only land a jump 1/3 of the time in competition in her best season (and has landed it 0/4 times this year and only 1/4 of the time total now), it's time for it to stop being their solo triple jump in the SP, sorry. It is truly borderline delusional for them to keep it in. Now if at some point Grace lands it 9 times in a row I'll eat my words sure, and also the pillow I'm leaning on right now, that's how unlikely I think it is to happen.
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- Mar 20, 2004
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With any luck I will be Frank's age someday and I hope people don't call me senile just because of my age. There is no reason for ageism anywhere here.
I heard an interview with her (can't remember where?) where she talked openly about her feelings. She was very mature about them and talked about how she had not dealt with the feelings from worlds, how she kept pushing them aside with her traveling and such. It sounded to me like what she was saying was that the feelings were hitting her hard once she got back and started to train. Totally understandable to me.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
This is a bit misleading. For example, are you counting Gracie's SP 3F at Worlds? She got a "!". However, she earned more points for that 3F (6.13) than Evgenia's 3F (5.43) and Elena's 3F (4.83) that were not "!", or Anna's 3Lo (5.70), which is the jump people are certain that she will earn more points on. (Also, Gracie doesn't do steps into her 3Lo, which is a problem in the SP). Only Ashley had a higher scoring solo triple in the worlds SP among the top 6 ladies. That is not a failed element.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
Running away from the jump won't make it better in competition.
