'Radical change' could be on the way

[euroskate]

This discussion is making me think about what's going to happen to ice dance. If we apply the same rules to ice dance then the SD will end up being an athletic program while the FD will become the artistic program. Well, it's already that way but it would become more official and there'd be no reason for the ISU to even think of considering other styles of FD from what we see at the top now.

ice Dance is a different disciplin. i dont see any of this Happening to ice Dance. to cut compulsory and mingle it with to a short Dance was already the big Revolution. and i remember peolple saying they are going to kill ice Dance with it. i was not a fan of this idea either, but finally we all got used to and actually i like short Dance, when it´s done good
so ice Dance has already technical program short Dance and artistic program > free

the only Thing wich aplies for ice Dance is the GOE thing

 

[euroskate]

AND PLEASE dont Forget the value of the Quads was raised due to and olympic Champion WITHOUT Quads 2010. the raising of the Points had quite the effect that the numbers of quad Jumpers exploded.

AND DONT Forget more quads is ALSO a Equippment Thing with the MUCH MUCH lighter skates and blades the build nowadays!!!

The ISU just wants it balanced out again!

AND a last thing is that there Needs to be more differenciating beteween short and Long. so make the emphasis on elements in on and on free artistics in the other actually might be not so a bad idea
JUST DEPENDS HOW THIS IS DONE

 

[bestolen]

You know - it was a sport when they were only doing doubles. It was a sport when they were doing triples. Why all of a sudden is it only a "sport" if they're doing quads? There WILL be injuries. There have already been injuries. I'm sorry but Nathen Chen and Boyang are not artistic. I also don't think Hanyu has been deserving of the high PCS he's received. I've been watching figure skating for over 40 years and I do not, unpopularly I'm sure, like the trend that seems to be happening. There needs to be a balance. There currently isn't a balance. Any sport that is judged by humans is going to have its faults. We have many faults now. There is NO consistency and I don't see the IFS or the USFSA or any of the country's federations coming up with anything to change that. Sad.

Ok, now we all know you are a old school person that can't accept figure skating is no longer like it was when you were young.

 

[Grin]

TAT is against decreasing men quads BV
https://russian.rt.com/sport/news/429068-tarasova-prizhki-isu

 

[OS]

Of course it is a cheap fix, ISU have been trying to get rid of one of the programs because it is going broke, and this is their tactic en route to do it... just saying.

They just can't be bothered to admit the judging selection process and inconsistent quality of judging can be a problem. That back loading 6 jumps creates an imbalanced COP abusive poor choreography program, particularly with PCS. It is like I suck at Maths, but my country still want to win, so let's just get rid of divisions and multiples the stuff I am rubbish at and can't be bothered with so we can at least satisfy my medal quotas. Chances are ISU members might go for it because of it, but the sport will ultimately pay for the price, sadly.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Ice Network is the media arm of USFSA. Does anyone really think we'd see a Nathan photo?

For that reason, no - but did they have to go with a single skater ahead of such a 'negative' article to pretty much point the finger at how unartistic he is? Could have used a pic of a whole podium at least, or a judging panel, or something like that, no?

 

[Blades of Passion]

- Complex, uninspiring StSq under current rules; will rather define it to either a straight line, circular or serpentine footwork to be completed in say 40s so only those with really good edge work and blade control will achieve level 4 instead of watching the slow painful and full-of-effort StSq to squeeze out a Lvl4

40 seconds is a loooong time, nobody goes over that amount right now. I think it needs to be 25 seconds max and also greatly cut down on the amount of required turns. They are asked to do every type of "difficult turn" in both directions right now and it's so boring to see every single skater attempt this in every program. There's way more to footwork than just these turns, but that's mainly all we see these days. Skaters don't even really have a concept of interesting footwork anymore; even in the "choreography sequence" where they do have more freedom (or in exhibitions) we don't see the creativity happening.

 

[berry8]

I became a figure skating fan because I fell in love with Lipnitskaya's spins but now, as a non-casual fan, I am mostly into big innovative jumps... Just-saying... I wouldnt be a FS fan anymore if I had to watch exhibition-like programs.
The change proposals from ISU are not good to My tqstes

According to me some good changes would be:
- Ladies. Make 3a, quadruples base values higher.
- Men. Limit the number of allowed quads to 3 in the long program.
- Pairs. Why have pairs long programs such a ripetitive layout? I mean the death spiral, the combo spin, the side by side spinin and three lifts in every single LP?? Reduce the lifts to two, keep the combospin mandatory in the long and make the pairs choose between the side by side spin and the death spiral (a pair can choose to perform a death spiral in the long and a side-by-side spin in the short or viceversa).
-Ice dance. I don't really know anything about Ice Dance apart from that I love twizzles

For all:
- make LPs 30s shorter
- incentivate the choice of modern pop music \ disco - music: this would make FS more popular among the guys of My age (20-25)
- penalize falls more
- separate the ISU in FIgure Skating Union and FAstSkatingUnion: this would make FS winning prizes higher as FISU would get more sponsors

 

[GF2445]

Well, the ISU brought it on itself when they brought in the points system. This was going to happen.
A point that i want to raise is the value of the Short Program. I think one of the motivations for having 2 equal length events of techncial and artistic is because in recent years, interest in the short program has decreased. These days, unless its a sports channel, or a tv network in the nation of the event, they would only, for most of the time, only show the long program.
Thoughts?

 

[moriel]

I am surprised not surprised to read so much hatred towards ISU and judging

it´s very easy to say "I dont like that idea" but then just come up with something you think would work icreasing the numbers of spectators and followers!

The Judging System and ist Points were designed to EQUAL OUT technical side and componenets at 50-50 % rate . Since the tecnical side increased so much the last years it does not equal out. so what to do? For me more Logical would be to Change the factor or PCS to increase it´s value again. Then there would not be so much fuss about the iSU reducing quads.

to shorten the program is also because simply one skater takes to Long and to have 24 takes like forever. and noone wants to watch this long. to reduce number of Skaters is not in favor of the smaller countries and also would make the Sport die there. also when there are less elements the judging should be quicker obviosly.
another possibility would be world FINALE A and FINALE B or something like that.

then the last Point. THERE ARE TOO MANY INJURIES LATELY especially in pairs. So of course the sports leaders HAVE TO to something about that.

so please stop the coplaining and come up with good ideas instead

Sure.
About all the casual fans I've met do not care for FS as art, they care for FS as a sport.
So to increase popularity, make it actually a sport. ISU should remove the PCs scores at all.

Why? First, they are not objective and will never be. This is always where people complain about underscoring/overscoring.
Also, removing PCs overall, would leave scoring faster.

Actually, ideal thing would be to make scoring close to real time - the skater skates, and the score shows up, and thats it (cutting this time down would reduce event time, which is good both for real life competitions and broadcasts).

 

[Eclair]

Well, the ISU brought it on itself when they brought in the points system. This was going to happen.
A point that i want to raise is the value of the Short Program. I think one of the motivations for having 2 equal length events of techncial and artistic is because in recent years, interest in the short program has decreased. These days, unless its a sports channel, or a tv network in the nation of the event, they would only, for most of the time, only show the long program.
Thoughts?

you're only talking about NBC right? Because Eurosport, all Japanese and Russian broadcasts always show the short as well as the long.. (don't know about CBC, but I strongly suspect, that they also show both short and long)

If figure skating interest in the US is decreasing, it's because they don't have a leading lady. Men skating was never popular in the US. When Evan won the Olympics hardly anyone in the public noticed. Following that logic, it's the ladies discipline, that need proposals, not the mens.

 

[Mango]

ice Dance is a different disciplin. i dont see any of this Happening to ice Dance. to cut compulsory and mingle it with to a short Dance was already the big Revolution. and i remember peolple saying they are going to kill ice Dance with it. i was not a fan of this idea either, but finally we all got used to and actually i like short Dance, when it´s done good
so ice Dance has already technical program short Dance and artistic program > free

the only Thing wich aplies for ice Dance is the GOE thing

Change is coming to ice dance too, so I don't believe it will get by unscathed. "Rhythm Dance" will be the new SD. We'll see what's to come. But the ISU is already narrowing its ideas of what a perfect FD is so if changes are coming I hope we see more variety.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Totally agree!

Thanks!
Really, if I can think of this, why can't they?

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Or maybe, all that needs to be done is use the scoring system the CORRECT way, and give points where points should be given, and understand that high TES does not equal higher PCS , and give a lifetime ban to judges caught cheating.

Now was that so hard?

Also, I repeat: get rid of cheating judges.

 

[Miller]

Think the reduction in base values for solo quad jumps is a good thing. Looking at the base values and then points available for GOE turns out you can actually score more for a perfectly executed 3A or 4Lz say than you can now - 12.0 points for 3A vs 11.5 now, and 17.25 for 4Lz vs 16.6. However for falls (-5 GOE) you'll score considerably less, 4.0 for 3A vs 5.5 and 5.75 vs 9.6 for 4LZ. Think this will solve one of the problems whereby skaters get too much credit for 'planned falls' and which confuses casual fans as to why skaters who fall still win or get so many points.

Rest of the proposals I'm not so sure. Is skating so broken that it needs fixing via artistic and technical programs, plus why didn't they consult with coaches like Kori Ade and Brian Orser more? The reduction in one jumping pass for men isn't so bad. Skaters will drop their lowest scoring jumping pass i.e. 2A vs 3Lo/3F for most top men (think Nathan Chen is only one with a 3Lz as his lowest scoring jumping pass, but could be different this coming season...), so differential isn't so much, only a couple of points or so and will give impression of PCS and TES closing together even if they're really not.

Re the reduction in time think they've wanted to get women's and men's too much in line. If they were really wanting to emphasise the artistic side they could easily have compromised at 4 mins 10 or 15 seconds and had a longer choreo sequence say. More time for the program to breathe whereas now both men's and women's programs will be rushed - see Brian's comments re junior and senior men.

 

[andromache]

Sure.
About all the casual fans I've met do not care for FS as art, they care for FS as a sport.
So to increase popularity, make it actually a sport. ISU should remove the PCs scores at all.

Why? First, they are not objective and will never be. This is always where people complain about underscoring/overscoring.
Also, removing PCs overall, would leave scoring faster.

Actually, ideal thing would be to make scoring close to real time - the skater skates, and the score shows up, and thats it (cutting this time down would reduce event time, which is good both for real life competitions and broadcasts).

No PCS, no music, no choreography, no skating skills necessary. Elements versus elements. Sounds about as dull as watching compulsory figures.

 

[plushyfan]

The Russians won't support it. Sure.

 

[iorii]

Okay :
1) Increased max GOE
2) Reduced BV for jumps
3) Reduced number for jumps

Nope :
1) Separate 'artistry' and 'athletic' programs. Bro, I watch figure skating because it's a mix of the two
2) Cut FS time. I'm a fan, so my reason is as simple as 'I have longer program to watch'

I don't get why some people say jumps in figure skating are the thing that attracts audience. A program without jumps feel incomplete, yes, but all my non-figure skating friends whom I showed skating videos to say 'I don't understand jumps and all the technical stuffs, I only understand that it's pretty.' Jumps and artistry are equally important, they are what make the sport called figure skating.

 

[Barb]

I think it is obvious that most people here do not like these changes, we are fans, if we are here it is because we like things as they are. And I suppose it's even offensive to suggest such drastic changes, because this suggests that things like they are currently are wrong or they do not like them, as if they do not want the skaters who are currently winning to do so. For example I listen a lot to people to say that they do not want to separate the athletic from the artistic because that combination is the reason they watch figure skating, but in my point of view, a long time ago I not to see such combination (artistic+athletic), (at least in men and ladies), so in my opinion I do not see what would be lost.

 

[QuadThrow]

Decreasing pair´s BV for Quad throws is a joke.:hpull: These BVs are already very low. 6,5 for a 4STh lampoons all technical ambitious pairs. If the ISU did not want to see quads they should ban them! My suggestion: Cancel one lift and one spin in the FS and pair skating could become more interesting.

Very interesting to see the GOE change next year. I think this opens the door to massive GOE inflation.