Brown: " I want to be me"

[dorispulaski]

It was an interesting article for any Jason fan:

As to Caucasity, the article is in the NYT, and she couldn't say the crowd was as white as a KKK summer picnic, and that because they are white, they have no rhythm, and clap poorly.

As to Darth Vader, I think poets have to use care in drawing metaphors from popular culture, particularly poets who write from inspiration alone, as she appears to do.

She/ her husband appears to have gotten the part about Vader being an overwhelmingly powerful, almost force of nature, kind of guy and missed the part about him being on the side of ultimate evil in the first movie released.

If she saw all the movies, she has a different view of Vader than people whose view of him is stuck in the first Star Wars movie ever where he appears as the quintessential evil bogeyman, hissing through his fearsome mask.

Nathan stans, who saw the first movie only, could be excused from being offended at the comparison. Star Wars stans might understand it better.

btw, don't many fans put their most debatable opinions in the mouths of their friends and family when they write?

 

[ice coverage]

... But when did this fan fest turn into a "let's bash everybody" theme? ...

This thread is not a Fan Fest thread.

This thread is in The Edge.

The author of the NYTM article had no qualms in pointing out that her husband did not like Nathan's FS.

So I would say that any "theme" of criticism can be traced back to the NYTM author. YMMV.

 

[noskates]

Well really, please excuse me. I still think this article is being parsed to death (hope I used that word correctly.....) unnecessarily. IF you're a fan of Jason's than be happy he's being written about in the NYT and that figure skating is getting a thumbs up. I seriously doubt if Nathan Chen read the article he would be offended. I also don't think he would be offended if someone didn't like his skating or his program or even the way he wears his hair. Clearly by all accounts they would be in the minority and he would know this. It's the so-called fans that get their panties in a twist over something they assume is a diss. There are just so many more important things going on in figure skating right now than this - judging, injuries, safety at the Olympics, Johnny Weir finding his stolen Birkin, will Gracie come back, is Ashley going to retire....et.al.

 

[Mrs. P]

Just to clarify, I found myself drawn to Patricia Lockwood's writing style, hence my reasoning to do more research on her. I certainly don't expect others to do this, but Mr. P happened to be in earshot when I found the profile on her. I don't think Mr. P's comments means that he expected others to do what we did, but to simply explain why some people may have not taken to the piece or found it too gushy or were bothered by word choice/metaphors.

I think probably the majority of people who read the article probably gets the gist of her point without additional reseaech, but having some knowledge of her past writing does help.

 

[TontoK]

Well really, please excuse me. I still think this article is being parsed to death (hope I used that word correctly.....) unnecessarily. IF you're a fan of Jason's than be happy he's being written about in the NYT and that figure skating is getting a thumbs up. I seriously doubt if Nathan Chen read the article he would be offended. I also don't think he would be offended if someone didn't like his skating or his program or even the way he wears his hair. Clearly by all accounts they would be in the minority and he would know this. It's the so-called fans that get their panties in a twist over something they assume is a diss. There are just so many more important things going on in figure skating right now than this - judging, injuries, safety at the Olympics, Johnny Weir finding his stolen Birkin, will Gracie come back, is Ashley going to retire....et.al.

Honestly, if someone is being referenced as Darth Vader, it is not a compliment, no matter how you spin it.

And that is fine. Different strokes and all.

But let's not also pretend that these words come from the mouth of God.

It's one fan with one opinion, who got a pretty good landing place for her story.

 

[Mrs. P]

She's a pretty high profile fan. Her work precedes her, which is why she landed this piece in first place. God knows if I tried to pitch this story to NYT Mag, I'd be shown the door.

If you set aside the Darth Vader reference, she does a good job explaining the fan experience of watching the sport and also about Jason's connection to the audience.

ETA: I'll also make the observation that Jason is building a fan base of some high profile artists. Having Lin-Manuel Miranda and Benj Pasek in your corner is a huge affirmation of your work.

 

[katmari]

Are people who are upset about the Darth Vader reference also upset about Nathan's "Slaythan" nickname? Having a nickname about slaying his opponents (even metaphorically) isn't sweetness and light either.

If a survey was done and people were asked to name someone from popular culture who slayed his opponents, one of the responses would be Darth Vader.

 

[Ross74]

I think Rohene Ward is a bit overrated as a choreographer and like Jason trying other choreographers. Yes, Ward is the most flamboyant of choreographers but I am not sure what that has to do with helping Jason or anyone. Sometimes I feel he is trying make up for a skating careerthat was not to be.

I like Rohene's choreography on Jason very much, as well as most of what he's done for Mariah, but he's not for everyone. What I like is that he makes his skaters look like dancers on ice. There is so much to watch in between the jumps that is simply wonderful. With Riverdance, I had dreaded watching it because other skaters had attempted ID programs and they didn't seem to work. They looked clunky, like the skates got in the way. Rohene found a way to make it work and to look like he was dancing. As for Rohene "making up for a skating career that wasn't to be", wouldn't you, if you had the talent and could find a way to stay in a sport that you love? I see nothing wrong with this.

I haven't read the Lockwood article because I have to be in the right mood to read that kind of Sunday magazine essay, and it hasn't struck yet.

 

[Mrs. P]

I haven't read the Lockwood article because I have to be in the right mood to read that kind of Sunday magazine essay, and it hasn't struck yet.

I look forward to getting the print version of the magazine and enjoying it over coffee on Sunday! Even though I'm an older millennial, I still enjoy things like this. I also think the photos will look super cool in print.

 

[Ross74]

I look forward to getting the print version of the magazine and enjoying it over coffee on Sunday! Even though I'm an older millennial, I still enjoy things like this. I also think the photos will look super cool in print.

Exactly how this kind of article should be read! Even better if it's a rainy Sunday.

 

[noskates]

I look forward to getting the print version of the magazine and enjoying it over coffee on Sunday! Even though I'm an older millennial, I still enjoy things like this. I also think the photos will look super cool in print.

Here's hoping we can get some rain here in California so I can read the print version with a cup of coffee. Sounds particularly wonderful and I agree about seeing the pictures in print.

I'm an older millennial as well. I read a lot and I don't always agree with what I read but most articles have some salvation. But when you start picking words apart and casting your own interpretation of those words like that's the reality of it - what's the point? It still is bothersome to me that some people are making such a big negative deal out of a magazine article. Yes no matter how you spin it a frog is a frog but.....is it all that important?

Totally happy that Jason got the attention. That's enough for me.

 

[ancientpeas]

I'm a very firm advocate for figure skating needing more exposure not less so a big article in the NYT is an excellent thing. We don't have to agree with her views on Jason but we should all be happy that people are talking about skating in the media.

Anything that puts butts in the seats.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

I have watched Jason's LP from the 4CCs several times. THAT is skating. THAT is what the US judges were looking for to send him to the Olympics. It didn't happen and the 3 men who are going deserve it. But there is no doubt to me that Jason would have made his mark on the Olympics. Likely, one of the super-jumpers will capture the gold and maybe the podium. But I am waiting to watch Patrick, Javi, Misha and Adam skate. And I think others will do the same. Jason will be watching too but, hopefully, we have not seen the last of him.

:yes2: :2thumbs: ME TOO!!!!! When Patrick didn't land any of his competition 3As at Nationals, I DID NOT CARE!!! The reason I didn't care was because I could see he was happy being on the ice again. Sure, I would have loved to see a completely clean program(s) from him there, and hopefully he can do that at the Olympics, but it was more about his state of well-being for me. The LP especially was GORGEOUS despite minor errors. There is SO MUCH MORE to skating than doing all your jumps as intended, as nice as that is. It's about being yourself and showing what YOU can best bring to the ice. Results are awesome, but I'm here to watch the ACTUAL SKATING/PROGRAMS. I am SO THRILLED that Jason was able to do so well at 4CC and that HE is pleased with how it went!!!

Not just a great quote from Jason, but it reminded me at the beginning of the season, Misha Ge wrote on an IG post: I will not do anyone else, I will do me. And look how Misha’s season turned out.

Can’t wait to see how Jason skates next year as the “best he can be me”

Patrick has said similar about choosing to focus on what he does best. Go Jason! Go Misha! Go Patrick! I love how these athletes seem self-assured of who they are as skaters. "Being themselves" has brought their fans so much happiness over the years. Bravo to each of them for the amazing journey they've taken us on!

 

[elbkup]

It was an interesting article for any Jason fan:

As to Caucasity, the article is in the NYT, and she couldn't say the crowd was as white as a KKK summer picnic, and that because they are white, they have no rhythm, and clap poorly.

As to Darth Vader, I think poets have to use care in drawing metaphors from popular culture, particularly poets who write from inspiration alone, as she appears to do.

She/ her husband appears to have gotten the part about Vader being an overwhelmingly powerful, almost force of nature, kind of guy and missed the part about him being on the side of ultimate evil in the first movie released.

If she saw all the movies, she has a different view of Vader than people whose view of him is stuck in the first Star Wars movie ever where he appears as the quintessential evil bogeyman, hissing through his fearsome mask.

Nathan stans, who saw the first movie only, could be excused from being offended at the comparison. Star Wars stans might understand it better.

btw, don't many fans put their most debatable opinions in the mouths of their friends and family when they write?

My take exactly on the Vader comment, especially since The Force Awakens & The Last Jedi where the Dark Side and Jedi Force seem to be recognized as flip sides of the same coin; both exist in all of us and one ignores one's own dark side at their peril. Nathan is more Kylo Ren and Nathan has mastered the balance of dark and light in one harmonious dance.

 

[el henry]

Me five on the print edition of the magazine. I don't know if this will be a separate issue, or just a special issue of the Sunday magazine, but I will be grabbing it from spousal unit's hands on Sunday. Even *before* we start on the crossword

And this author is not writing for the seasoned figure skating fan who will parse her words. She is writing for the general audience of the Sunday Times. Thank heavens for that

 

[Mrs. P]

^ I'm pretty sure it's in the regular Sunday Magazine. It's basically an Olympic theme issue.

 

[el henry]

^ I'm pretty sure it's in the regular Sunday Magazine. It's basically an Olympic theme issue.

So not the "T:Style" type magazines, but a Sunday themer; :yes: that's cool. Of course, whether we like "themers" depends on the theme, but this one's a foregone conclusion

 

[ice coverage]

... . Yes no matter how you spin it a frog is a frog but.....is it all that important?

Totally happy that Jason got the attention. That's enough for me.

... She is writing for the general audience of the Sunday Times.

I am happy that Jason got the attention. But it is not enough for me.

And for me, it is something of a double-edged sword that the NYTM is not a niche publication/site targeted at figure skating fans (who have their own independent knowledge of Jason, Nathan, Ross, etc.).

Here is what I mean:

The fact that Lockwood is writing for the general audience of NYTM means that what she writes could be very influential to those who don't know much (or anything) about figure skating and figure skaters.
Her piece is one of the few times that NYTM is exposing its mainstream readers to skating and skaters.

- In the case of Jason, her piece portrays Jason in an overwhelmingly positive light. All good for Jason (whom I like). Again, I am happy for Jason.

- In the case of Nathan and Ross, her piece does not put Nathan and Ross (both of whom I like as well) in an unequivocally positive light.
(And I would go further and say that IMO, it puts them in a questionable light. YMMV.)​

So as a hypothetical example ... if Ross were given major billing in promotion for next season's An Evening With Champions, I would hate for a NYTM reader in Boston to think to her-/himself:

"It would be fun to splurge and take the whole fam to see live figure skating for the first time ... but who is this Ross guy?
Oh, wait ... was he mentioned in that NYTM article before the Olympics? What did it say? Something about amnesia?? Seemed to mean something about him being forgettable?? Confusing because the article also said that he had one stunning skate at a competition?
Well ... too iffy for me. Nahhh, not gonna buy tix for the Harvard show, if that's the best it can do. Going by that article, Jason Brown sounded like the only safe bet worth spending any money on."​

I don't think my hypothetical scenario is far-fetched. I am sad for Ross that for many readers who do not have any independent knowledge of him, the term "amnesia-inducing" is being attached to his name.​

 

[Mathman]

I think the article is cool because maybe some non-fans will read the over-the-top poetry and say, "I want what she's having."

I don't think the article dissed either Nathan or Ross. She needn't have mentioned them at all, in this Jason love-in. She said that Ross' performance was "stunning," although in a way thst doesn't stick in the memory. I think this is the simple truth. I, too, thought that Ross' performance was stunning, but afterward I could not remember much about it except that it was stunning.

She said that Nathan crushed Nationals by 40 points and that he is leading the way toward higher, faster, stronger in figure skating. He is the Death Star to all rivals. :yes:

 

[Mrs. P]

I think one thing that is being lost in this discussion of other men's skaters is that she is writing about her (and her husband's) reaction as they're watching U.S. Nationals in real time, on television. Perhaps we might have not used her exact phrasing or descriptions, but really what she's saying is not really that different from what people say when they watch skating and comment on the competitions threads here.

In non-poetic speak, this is what she said:

Nathan Chen, who showed his power and dominance, won by a crap load of points to Ross Miner, whose skating I never noticed before until he had a stunning free skate.

Again, though if I wrote that and pitched it to the NYT, I would not get very far.